What if we are all alone and every god, religion and magical system was an egregore?

[Robert Ramsay]

Yet sometimes people get results that they don't consciously believe they can achieve. They may try magic as a lark and then get results, for instance. Also, one can have extreme 'unusual' experiences outside of anything one has ever expected (I can testify to this), thus it's difficult to say one's self-conception shifted them to the universe where this could occur.

If you could do it directly with your conscious mind, what a nightmare that would be!

Intention-less magic happens all the time; mostly though it either cancels out or expresses as random synchronicities. This is why one is entreated to 'know thyself' - I believe the purpose of Zen is to make your consciousness and your subconscious (read: the two halves of your brain) as compatible as possible.

I find it easier to think of yourself as a very complicated ball of atoms. Each moment, all the atoms in your brain are in certain combinations. There are sets of those combinations which you would consider 'success', and you are aiming to literally become that version of yourself.

 

[Konsciencia]

The Source has many masks. Ya are going to hate me for this, but I don't care. There is no other Gods or Goddesses, but the Source. This Consciousness is the only thing that exists. We are All it, and it is us. Meaning, that you are God. The Demons, The Gods like Lucifer, Jesus, Hekate, Lilith and the rest, are manifestations of this Consciousness. We, and everything around us. Are it's imaginations. You don't have to believe me. Take it or Leave it. I speak by Experience alone.

 

[akenu]

The Source has many masks. Ya are going to hate me for this, but I don't care. There is no other Gods or Goddesses, but the Source. This Consciousness is the only thing that exists. We are All it, and it is us. Meaning, that you are God. The Demons, The Gods like Lucifer, Jesus, Hekate, Lilith and the rest, are manifestations of this Consciousness. We, and everything around us. Are it's imaginations. You don't have to believe me. Take it or Leave it. I speak by Experience alone.

This is very similar to what is written about The All in The Kybalion.

 

[Ohana]

I kind of hope that is the case because it would solve a lot of problems when viewing magick. It would solve the fact that magick can be subjective. Why every religion paired along with magick works. It would solve so many thing. The source being everyone/everything and within people but subjective to what they believe in. It would solve so much because an objective view doesn't make sense to me.

If there is an objective view then how come multiple systems work that are at odds with one another? If it was objective would not some just not work since the systems used are so at odds with the world? It can't be objective objective in my view it just can't.

Maybe the egregore psychological view is correct sort of. My view is that its the occult/magickal world is a lot of like a blank canvas. You can use old tried and true system or make up entirely new ones. I think I might be wrong but it might be more subjective based like @ Konsciencia said wearing many masks. Another thing is how would this adapt to the times. Most system might stop working after maybe a short amount of time since all beliefs change over time.

I don't know though. Its confusing.

 

[Beyond Everything]

But going through deconstruction of christianity made me think... what if every metaphysical thing is just an egregore. Like every religion, every god, every magickal system, everything we have ever imagined is just an egregore...its just us and our egregores we've made in the cosmos.

I'd alter what I wrote here somewhat (yes, I've already grown since that time) but it's still instructive to meditate upon it

Where Gods come from; or, The advantages of ejecting religion from one's praxis

One cognitive feature of humans has been called Hyperactive Agency Detection. This is the automatic attribution of intention to phenomena. Studies have demonstrated that this begins in early childhood. Mankind is approx 300,000 years old (and that is not even considering pre-humans). Innate...

wizardforums.com

From what I've 'seen' there are non-egregoric forces out there, but when one is dealing with human religion, that is what one is dealing with- along with collective thoughtforms. Real power and growth is going beyond all such things. This is something occultists almost universally do not comprehend or intuit.

 

[Feywer]

Just having an existential moment here. I came to magick and the occult to get a cosmology more closer to the "truth" (i come from a christian background, so something more realistic than the Creation story in genesis).

But going through deconstruction of christianity made me think... what if every metaphysical thing is just an egregore. Like every religion, every god, every magickal system, everything we have ever imagined is just an egregore...its just us and our egregores we've made in the cosmos.

I mean every magickal system was created by someone at some point right? A whole bunch of people believed in it, and boom a new magick with its own logic that works.

What if God, Jesus, Allah, Buddha were common men, but egregores of them were created from people telling legends about them for centuries?

And in the occult, no one really prove anything can they, especially afterlife?

I mean yes you can definitely know if you've made contact with a presence, but how do we know its a a being that existed way before us, or a centuries old egregore that has gained its own intelligence.

It just makes me wonder, what is real then?

Just us and our thoughtforms?

Everything is just made up. reality is strange and nothing really matters. That may sound awfully nihlistic but I think anyone who says anything about the the nature of the afterlife, the “divine” or ”God” (with a capital G) beyond the phrase, “God Is”, is just full of bullshit lol.

No one knows better than anyone else and we‘re all just trying to make sense of the world and chaos of the universe the best ways we know how. Anyone who says they have the “definitive answer” to things like that is full of crap. We’re all only human anyway.

We all have experiences in our lives and that only applies to our own. Whatever you want to think or believe is what happens to you. and things change all the time. Nothing is set in stone.

An old roman saying goes, “Life is a short dream” and I have always loved that.

 

[Konsciencia]

Everything is just made up. reality is strange and nothing really matters. That may sound awfully nihlistic but I think anyone who says anything about the the nature of the afterlife, the “divine” or ”God” (with a capital G) beyond the phrase, “God Is”, is just full of bullshit lol.

No one knows better than anyone else and we‘re all just trying to make sense of the world and chaos of the universe the best ways we know how. Anyone who says they have the “definitive answer” to things like that is full of crap. We’re all only human anyway.

We all have experiences in our lives and that only applies to our own. Whatever you want to think or believe is what happens to you. and things change all the time. Nothing is set in stone.

An old roman saying goes, “Life is a short dream” and I have always loved that.

You are absolutely right.

 

[Firetree]

Everything is just made up. reality is strange and nothing really matters.

Of course everything is 'made up ' , either by a 'God' or 'Big bang' or giant tortoise or .... your own projections or .....
Reality ois only 'strange' when your ideas about it but up against 'reality ' whatever it was you considered oit was before you 'butted up' against something your 'reality model' could not figure out . And of course 'it' matters ... it matters even to a totally materialistic atheist . Unless you are so far gone it doesnt matter to you wether you feel good or not, are healthy or not, havbe a healthy stable psychology or not , wether you are enjoying your life or not .

That should matter to you ... even selfishly.

That may sound awfully nihlistic but I think anyone who says anything about the the nature of the afterlife, the “divine” or ”God” (with a capital G) beyond the phrase, “God Is”, is just full of bullshit lol.

So, modern dude on iternet lols at millenia long history of fellow humans all over the world , thinking otherwise .
This very recent and very very short lived (so far ) paradigm on human 'reality' is very strong ... yeah ? Everything else 'be bullshit' ?

I dont know about you but for me even IF ' every god, religion and magical system was an egregore?' I am having a great and very enjoyable life . And if it is a 'one off' that makes it even more amazing and valuable and precious and should stimulate one to be more like that and enjoy and appreciate 'the only shot you get ' !

No one knows better than anyone else and we‘re all just trying to make sense of the world and chaos of the universe the best ways we know how. Anyone who says they have the “definitive answer” to things like that is full of crap. We’re all only human anyway.

So if ANYONE makes any sense of any part of the word that comes to a 'definitive answer' they are full of crap ? I suppose you are not into physics ?

We all have experiences in our lives and that only applies to our own. Whatever you want to think or believe is what happens to you. and things change all the time. Nothing is set in stone.

An old roman saying goes, “Life is a short dream” and I have always loved that.

If you could opt to have great and wonderful dreams or nightmares ... what would you choose ?

 

[David Wilson-Steer]

Just having an existential moment here. I came to magick and the occult to get a cosmology more closer to the "truth" (i come from a christian background, so something more realistic than the Creation story in genesis).

But going through deconstruction of christianity made me think... what if every metaphysical thing is just an egregore. Like every religion, every god, every magickal system, everything we have ever imagined is just an egregore...its just us and our egregores we've made in the cosmos.

I mean every magickal system was created by someone at some point right? A whole bunch of people believed in it, and boom a new magick with its own logic that works.

What if God, Jesus, Allah, Buddha were common men, but egregores of them were created from people telling legends about them for centuries?

And in the occult, no one really prove anything can they, especially afterlife?

I mean yes you can definitely know if you've made contact with a presence, but how do we know its a a being that existed way before us, or a centuries old egregore that has gained its own intelligence.

It just makes me wonder, what is real then?

Just us and our thoughtforms?

Congratulations, you've just found Rule #7 in the Rules of the Game -
7. The highest purpose in the GAME is the creation of a STORY.
[If you don’t create your own STORY, by default, you simply become an ACTOR/CHARACTER in someone else’s STORY.]

 

[FireBorn]

Ya know, I read through the posts in this thread, and there are a lot of interesting takes here.

But honestly, I don’t really have a firm belief about any of it. I don’t know. Maybe it’s egregores., maybe it’s Source wearing masks, maybe it’s old intelligences., or the Deities themselves. Maybe it’s something my brain is too small to understand. What if? Whatever.

When I think about it, I keep coming back to this: every serious lesson and encounter I’ve had with demons, angels, deities, or spirits has pointed me back to this life. Embody this life. Live this life. Become more present, more fully here. Own my shit.

The afterlife isn’t the main thing for me right now. That will come when this body dies.

To me, a lot of this feels like the internet spirituality crowd getting so focused on later that they forget to live now. We haven’t grown beyond this life. Proof? You’re still here. I’m still here.

The rest can meet me when I get there. Until then, I refuse to sacrifice the present moment on the altar of the future.

 

[Feywer]

So, modern dude on iternet lols at millenia long history of fellow humans all over the world , thinking otherwise .
This very recent and very very short lived (so far ) paradigm on human 'reality' is very strong ... yeah ? Everything else 'be bullshit' ?

If it has value to you and to help make sense of your life, so much the better. Anyone who says they have thee “ultimate” answer disregards everyone else’s reality. No one has all the answers. Cultures‘ attitudes towards the worlds and the ways they interpret it is all very different. and that makes life a rich and wonderful thing. I have a problem with authoritarianism. The world is full of colour and many different ways of seeing. This is what I am getting at.

For example, my mother pays money to some “psychics” (very high sums of money) to contact and get answers from her ancestry and deceased loved ones. These psychics go ad nauseum about ”ascended masters” (which are terms I don’t like because no one is better than anyone else and it strokes egos to think otherwise). We’re all in this mess of existence together. They say that they have the answers to planes of existence and what happens after death and that everyone else is wrong. That’s a bunch of bologna. Because people have many many different ways and attitudes towards that. It’s the authoriarianism that really bothers me. “My way is the best way and I know better than all of you” sort of looking-down-ones-nose attitudes. No one has all the answers.

I dont know about you but for me even IF ' every god, religion and magical system was an egregore?' I am having a great and very enjoyable life . And if it is a 'one off' that makes it even more amazing and valuable and precious and should stimulate one to be more like that and enjoy and appreciate 'the only shot you get '

There’s nothing wrong with that. Hell, even I have my own ideas and beliefs. But that’s my way. It makes life rich, deep, and meaningful in the face of chaos, absurdity and meaninglessness. I think it’s important. It doesn’t matter if a tradition is thousands of years old or made last week - as long as it has meaning to you and informs your world view it works and is valid. Life IS short, and it’s important to enjoy it.

So if ANYONE makes any sense of any part of the word that comes to a 'definitive answer' they are full of crap ? I suppose you are not into physics ?

See my above response where I mull about authoritarianism. My position there is mainly about religion, belief and occult principles. Nothing to do with the world in a physical sense.

If you could opt to have great and wonderful dreams or nightmares ... what would you choose ?

You know, one time I had to pay a ticket at the sheriff’s office for my plate lights being out, and the officer asked me how I was doing. I said, “living the dream, or a nightmare! I can’t decide which” to which he replied, “a nightmare is still a dream.”

Life is fickle and the wheel of fortune revolves constantly. Dreams, nightmares - it’s all very short. And we experience it all. I want to know what it means to be a deep, whole human being. and that Quest, means making room for the good, and the bad - for everything.