What is holding you back in magick?

[Vandheer]

Another curious thread, but maybe it will help contemplate upon our shortcomings, so why not?

So whats holding you back in magick? Are you just lazy as fuck? If no, despite training enough why do you think you aren't there yet? Karma? Mundane life problems interfering too much? Do you have a condition thats holding you back? Maybe you just aren't cut from a quality cloth?

I can answer this question. My heart is closed. I became cynical at anything. Childlike wonder I had once is diminished. I can't enflame myself in prayer no matter how hard I try. Though I don't believe that I am unskilled and I train a decent amount of time. But I wouldn't say I am complete, especially when it comes to faith.

What do you think it is for you?

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

Being a perfectionist with fear of success and fear of failure (see my phobias post).
Everything must be perfect. Single weak link breaks the chain.
But .. what of those who fail to reach their goals, questioned Azazel once.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

erm - I'm good actually. Not the most fabulous wizard of all time of course, but I don't feel anything is holding me back.

 

[Vandheer]

erm - I'm good actually. Not the most fabulous wizard of all time of course, but I don't feel anything is holding me back.

Look don't clutter up the thread in that case. You aren't adding anything.

Goes for anyone else that was gonna comment the same.

 

[Promise]

I'm still very much a newbie to the practice of magick. So far I've mostly been doing the easier GOM stuff, where the rituals are very paint by numbers simple.

To my delight, I've had around 60% or better success rate. Of that I've done a lot of influence magick to boost various people up in various ways, never announcing it.

For rituals that are supposed to be done daily for xyz days, I have been very inconsistent with most of those. I end up doing my workings very late night, sometimes I'm just too tired.

Overall though Im running on too little sleep which impairs my focus.

My will / intention / at cause is lacking.

I've been slacking on meditation 8n hopes that magick would substitute straight across. It partially does, yet meditation gives the benefit of being g to be neutral and centered.

I need to balance my working so I am directly the one who benefits.

Really need to improve my visualization skills.

I've been trying to do too much magick, and not enough basics.

I'm kinda afraid of doing full evocation. Have never done one.

Of course I have a TON to learn.O Learning mostly from reading and a little bit of listening to podcasts.

GOM is simple enough though that it seems a mentor or "coven" isn't that much of a benefit. Using WF for that purpose to some extent.

I've also been neglecting my fitness lately.

Mostly it's logistics of fitting it into my life in a balanced way. At least that's the super obvious first step.

 

[Vandheer]

I'm still very much a newbie to the practice of magick. So far I've mostly been doing the easier GOM stuff, where the rituals are very paint by numbers simple.

I mean if the simple works perfect why would you go for something more complex? How long were you practicing again?

I'm kinda afraid of doing full evocation. Have never done one.

Could you clarify that?

I've also been neglecting my fitness lately

I could do better at that myself. I can use subtler bodies so much when my physical one is breaking down.

Mate that was an awesome post that actually made me consider much more things. I appreciate that.

 

[Promise]

I mean if the simple works perfect why would you go for something more complex? How long were you practicing again?


Could you clarify that?


I could do better at that myself. I can use subtler bodies so much when my physical one is breaking down.

Mate that was an awesome post that actually made me consider much more things. I appreciate that.

Thanks!!

I'm questioning whether there is any value in going beyond GOM. First I will fully digest and use their stuff, which covers a lot, the decide. 80/20 rule.

As far as evocation, just never attempted it. I'm kinda afraid and somewhat skeptical. If I can bring a spirit and have chat with me, like an ARCHANGEL ...

For one thing these are to me EPIC beings, and I can call one up essentially and ask it to drop by for a chat and to do a coue favors for me?!

In the mundane world that's like calling an A list celeb, or Billionaire, or pro athlete, or Senator, etc.

I mean I feel like that should be reserved for ultra emergency or save the world kinda stuff, not helping uncle Bill stop drinking.

Maybe spirit world is very different, but it feels like that. Maybe it's somewhat a self esteem issue, or will issue, or claiming my divine power.

I've actually met a bunch of celebs, and billionaires, even senators and rock stars, and they are generally just super cool and willing to help if you don't waste their time.

Ok, but then demons, and evoking them ... at least my image is there is some risk there. And a need for protections, etc. On the other hand it seems they can be righteous helpers.

So, I don't want to miss out, yet some question marks. Probably just give it a try is the best way. I guess I just don't want to take on more than I'm prepared for. Yet sometimes the only way to really prepare is by doing.
Been practicing full on about 6 weeks. Before that dabbling.

 

[Taudefindi]

So whats holding you back in magick?

Lack of time.
Not even bad time management, I literally am busy with other things to do and to only be able to do magic on the weekends(and that's when we don't get rehearsals then too) is making me go at a slow pace.

I will still reach my goals but at a slower pace than most.Not such a big deal, but it could be better.
On the other hand, my psychic practice is going smoothly so I guess theres a silver lining to everything.

Maybe you just aren't cut from a quality cloth?

Kind of an elitist thought this one, isn't it?

In my view, magic is for everybody.But just how it is with most things in life, if you don't train/learn nor input effort, you obviously won't grow in it.

I became cynical at anything. Childlike wonder I had once is diminished.

Yeah, there's that thin line that is between total skepticism and "childlike wonder" that is hard to thread.
Not impossible, but it's hard.
Because you gotta be skeptical to not waste time with things that don't work, but if you lack that wonder you won't be open to experiences that might be happening right in front of you(you'll be dismissive of everything).

Being a perfectionist with fear of success and fear of failure

When you just want to do things but that voice keeps telling you "No!It gotta be PERFECT!" and you just feel like smothering that voice into oblivion...

erm - I'm good actually. Not the most fabulous wizard of all time of course, but I don't feel anything is holding me back.

Smooth sailing then!

I've also been neglecting my fitness lately.

Easy to fix.
Pick some easy to do exercises and then do one or two sets of ten repetitions.
You don't need to workout a lot to keep fit, you just need to move more than when you're seated in front of the computer.
Of course, having a strong body is very beneficial not only to your health but also to your own practices.

In the mundane world that's like calling an A list celeb, or Billionaire, or pro athlete, or Senator, etc.

Wouldn't be like this for more powerful beings like deities?

 

[Vandheer]

For one thing these are to me EPIC beings, and I can call one up essentially and ask it to drop by for a chat and to do a coue favors for me?!

In the mundane world that's like calling an A list celeb, or Billionaire, or pro athlete, or Senator, etc.

Actually an interesting question. What do they gain in return from helping?

Kind of an elitist thought this one, isn't it?

Elitist what now? Is it such an outrageous though to consider not everyone progresses at same speed? Surely any healthy individual could make magick happen with sufficient training but some really do it fast. I am jealous of those people, they are just so natural to this whole business.

fear of success

Why do you fear that?

I mean I feel like that should be reserved for ultra emergency or save the world kinda stuff, not helping uncle Bill stop drinking.

That I actually agree with. I feel like I have commented this elsewhere, but you aren't making me evoke anything unless I have a seriously low chance of getting something and I need it RIGHT NOW. Well, not anymore at least. Some people main evocation and that also seems to be working for them. Good thing this entire business is flexible.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

Fear of Success to me is much like fear of settling healthy boundaries and enforcing them by all choices with fair consequences. More will be demanded of you, or setting you up for failure. In which case, we usually go and it's related to the inability to say no and get fired.

 

[Xenophon]

Look don't clutter up the thread in that case. You aren't adding anything.

Goes for anyone else that was gonna comment the same.

Clutter? It's a useful comment. It's heartening to know that there are individuals who---arguably---have successfully negotiated their voyage's rocks and shoals. Though, yes, it might be helpful if said persons mentioned a past hazard they skirted and how.

Myself? My failing is I tend rarely to stick with the rite as writ. I end to tweak before I've mastered what a ceremony calls for. It is entirely possible that the effect out across the Aethyrs is like someone laying down a jazz riff in the middle of the Prelude to Lohengrin. Hence my impoverished results, no?

(There. Is that clutter-free enough there, Mum? I don't wanna go leaving muddy Hush-Puppy prints on your fresh Mop 'n Glo. Which does look wonderful, let me add.)

 

[Taudefindi]

Is it such an outrageous though to consider not everyone progresses at same speed?

Not that(that is normal).

But to say that makes it seem that there is a specific type of person that is the one that can do magic, and that can be interpreted as a "special group of people" which ends up becoming an elitistic way to see things.So I think the issue was on how you said it and not so much on what you said.

 

[Vandheer]

Not that(that is normal).

But to say that makes it seem that there is a specific type of person that is the one that can do magic, and that can be interpreted as a "special group of people" which ends up becoming an elitistic way to see things.So I think the issue was on how you said it and not so much on what you said.

Thats fair enough, I could spend a bit more time to find better wording.

 

[Xenophon]

Not that(that is normal).

But to say that makes it seem that there is a specific type of person that is the one that can do magic, and that can be interpreted as a "special group of people" which ends up becoming an elitistic way to see things.So I think the issue was on how you said it and not so much on what you said.

You say elite like it was a bad thing. In every walk of like there are those who advance, those who creep and crawl, and those who stand still/regress/betake themselves elsewhere. No matter how Vandheer hammers at his language, that fact will not change.

I cut my magick teeth on Evola's "Magic as a Science of Self." I recall his introduction noting that the Ur-Group had "a few with genuine talent." Among these, Evola numbered at least one individual who had become a personal enemy by the time of writing; among these, he did not number himself. If a rather prideful sort like he could bite the facts-is-facts bullet, why not the rest of us?

Post automatically merged: May 1, 2024

Thats fair enough, I could spend a bit more time to find better wording.

Your wording in the original statement is irreproachable. It states a fact that stares everyone in the face: not everyone progresses at the same speed. Some do not progress at all. Like all else, there is an aptitude-dimension to magick.

 

[Vandheer]

Your wording in the original statement is irreproachable. It states a fact that stares everyone in the face: not everyone progresses at the same speed. Some do not progress at all. Like all else, there is an aptitude-dimension to magick

Not a snarky question, do you think some people to be hollow/NPCish?

 

[Xenophon]

Not a snarky question, do you think some people to be hollow/NPCish?

"Hollow"? That adjective got worked to death way back in the days of "the Angry Young Men" dinnit? NPC is actually a pretty good neologism. Yeah, probably the vast majority of featherless bipeds are NPC. Unwrapping mine own onion self, I find signs the NPC toxin works in, as well.

Post automatically merged: May 1, 2024

Not a snarky question, do you think some people to be hollow/NPCish?

As for magickal aptitude, I'm in the class for "special" students. You know. Sharp pencils banned, jumbo crayolas, and our own corner of the playground with padded corners.

 

[Mannimarco]

You say elite like it was a bad thing. In every walk of like there are those who advance, those who creep and crawl, and those who stand still/regress/betake themselves elsewhere. No matter how Vandheer hammers at his language, that fact will not change.

I'd say the idea of elitism in this context is less about people actually being better at things, and more about people having egotistical superiority complexes. Which I don't think describes anyone in this thread.

As for what's holding me back in magick, easily christianity, both cultural and personal. I've dismantled many disempowering/limiting beliefs, and keep finding more. In meditation I keep finding different manifestations of ideas like original sin, a punishing creator god, the need for a savior, etc. This is all "fine", I guess, if you want to practice christianity, not so much if you want to be a sorcerer.

Also, unprocessed emotions are a problem. As basically all men in the western world, I was told to repress my emotions and not be "weak". Which of course has created all kinds of problems for me, such as blockages and dysfunction in my energy body. When I ask spirits these days what I can to make my magick better, they almost always say "feel your feelings".

 

[Xenophon]

I'd say the idea of elitism in this context is less about people actually being better at things, and more about people having egotistical superiority complexes. Which I don't think describes anyone in this thread.

As for what's holding me back in magick, easily christianity, both cultural and personal. I've dismantled many disempowering/limiting beliefs, and keep finding more. In meditation I keep finding different manifestations of ideas like original sin, a punishing creator god, the need for a savior, etc. This is all "fine", I guess, if you want to practice christianity, not so much if you want to be a sorcerer.

Also, unprocessed emotions are a problem. As basically all men in the western world, I was told to repress my emotions and not be "weak". Which of course has created all kinds of problems for me, such as blockages and dysfunction in my energy body. When I ask spirits these days what I can to make my magick better, they almost always say "feel your feelings".

Vandeheer wrote, "Maybe you aren't cut from quality cloth." That sounds like a remark about innate ability, not a superiority complex. Mind you, the only way to find out about said ability is to take the plunge. If one does that, he certainly is worthy of all respect, failure or no. No one ever faulted Patroclus for trying to fill Achilles' armor. But, still and all, when push came to shove neither was Patroclus up to the task he set himself. To vary the imagery, did I get in the ring with Muhammed Ali in his prime, I would show by that act 1) that I was bold; 2) that I was no quality boxer.

In any case, you're right. I didn't see any egotists in the thread. That the term appeared at all seemed to me due to the persistent post-modern tendency to construe benefits obtained by differences in talent as somehow morally suspect. All I can say to that is to paraphrase Brennus: "Wae moralia!"

 

[Robert Ramsay]

Clutter? It's a useful comment. It's heartening to know that there are individuals who---arguably---have successfully negotiated their voyage's rocks and shoals. Though, yes, it might be helpful if said persons mentioned a past hazard they skirted and how.

That's fair. Before I got to this point, I vacillated between massive egotism and crushing defeat (so a normal teenager, then ). It was actually learning about magic which was one of the things that saved me. Having a purpose, and learning about how you have to be aware of yourself. Taking a step back so as not to get caught up in self-induced bad habits.

It's not like I don't still do dumb things, but I think a lot more deeply about them nowadays

 

[HoldAll]

What's mainly holding me back when it comes to practising is procrastinating by laboriously crafting long-ass comments to interesting forum posts like this one.

Didn't you write a beautiful piece about the Way of the Mind and the Way of the Heart some time ago? I wish I had bookmarked or copied it, you hit the nail right on the head there. As far as I can remember, most of us commented at the time that they were fine with the Way of the Mind but had difficulty with the Way of the Heart just like you, so you're not alone.

You can't return to a state of innocence. Never ever. You may succeed in developing a more mature type of enthusiasm but you can never restore that 'beginner's mind' of Zen buddhism simply because you're not a beginner anymore. I'm struggling with the heart issue the same as you; my clinical depression and/or my anti-depressant medication may be to blame for this but I've stopped to ponder this question long ago because an additional possibility would be that my firmly shut heart chakra is to blame for this blockage, another topic for endless rumination. I usually ignore that handicap or I'd have never get anything done in my life if I had blamed my depression for all my difficulties, and that empty-mind meditation puzzle I always go on about keeps me too busy from yearning for attaining magical career milestones like spirit evocation.

That damn "Enflame thyself with prayer" thing is a problem I struggle with, too. Exhibiting emotions does not come easy to me. I have yet to find a prayer that doesn't sound phony to me (all that grovelling, just disgusting); my watchword mantra is always "What's really there?", so I've taken a page out of Peter J. Carroll's "Liber Null & Psychonaut" and begun to improvise my praying: " The best form of this invocation [of the HGA] is spoken spontaneously, from the heart […]" Not much speaking from the heart yet but I keep on trying… Another one of my exercises is attempting to recite poetry with real emotion and without embarrassment - remember "Thunder: The Perfect Mind"? Something similarly visceral and simple, no turgid touchy-feely stuff. Removing my inhibitions would be normally psychotherapy country but I can't very well visit a therapist and ask him or her to help me improve the emotional quality of my magical incantations, can I?

I think it's great that you've identified this obstacle for your magical progess and asked for advice here. Other aspiring magicians spend their whole lives trying to do magic on a purely superficial level because they're uncomfortable with feelings or because they secretly suspect that they carry a snakepit full of ugly emotions inside of them and become even more intellectual as a result - no enflaming for them. Maybe I should try some trance work to reach a state of gnosis one day where inhibitions can't exist but I think I'll stick with the declaiming a little bit longer, just to be safe; I'm still a bit mentally shaky after some major crisis.