What is the connection between the Simulation hypothesis and magic?

[qwzxas]

I've seen a lot of talk recently of the Simulation hypothesis, ufos, paranormal, etc. I've also seen people talk about the controllers of the simulation being magic practitioners (vaguely putting magic in a bad light with little evidence). What are is your opinion on all this?

 

[Swampdweller900]

Great question. Just my personal opinion:

So let's take a step back to establish some rules for how the unseen works in our world.

1 - One of the fundamental elements of quantum mechanics is that everything we think "exists" is a wave that collapses into a particle when observed, and that probabilities are how it all works. However you're reading these words, quantum tunneling is how some part of the memory works on that device, which is not about physical electron gates allowing electrons through, it's about making the probability of the electrons being on one side or another collapse to zero.

2 - Magic relies on intent to happen. So intent of any sort has a way of shaping our world in a statistically significant way. This is well-documented across various forms of tests, from people in a lab affecting random number generators, to studies of prayer, to the placebo effect. Magic is harnessing our ability to use intent of our own, and of others, to change outcomes at a macro scale. Coupled with the fact that probabilities are fundamental to how the mundane world works, the connection is clear of an area of cause and mild effect. Gravity also has mild effects on us, and we understand how its effects manifest, but we don't actually understand how it works - through what medium it propagates, how gravitational waves arise from mass. So it's not like magic is a singular unknown spooky woo-woo thing in an otherwise fully understood universe.

3 - If intent has the power to change outcomes, it has to be both 1) a form of energy, and 2) have a medium through which it works. We have access to this medium and energy via our bodies, and this is a weak effect that because it doesn't consistently interact with our mundane 3+1 dimensions, makes it impossible to confirm using electromagnetic tests. So, in short, our emotions, our love, our hate, our fear, produce energy in an unseen plane of existence.

4 - Non-corporeal sentient and non-sentient entities do seem to exist, with evidence pointing to a poorly understood set of rules around them that make testing with existing equipment hard to do. Ghosts, UFOs, etc. Many people here work with unseen (and can be seen if they really want) entities that exchange energies for intent. This is no different than feeding a horse before going for a ride, or giving a child candy for good behavior. First, you as the magic practitioner have to tame the horse or explain to the kid how they earn candy. Sometimes it's you being offered candy in exchange for behavior. It's a two-way street.

4.5 - My personal super-not scientific theory is that non-corporeal entities exist mainly in the dimension where dark matter exists, because dark matter and dark energy have no entropy. These entities exist as something with mass but that can't do anything until they transverse a data plane with no mass in order to incarnate as a physical being in our 3+1D space. So they can possess our bodies the same way a primary soul/spirit would, and when not relying on the engine of a body, they alternative method to experience entropy is when they dip into our 3+1D space, which is what they need our energy to accomplish.

And I'll add that I think that fae, house elves, demons, grey aliens, and everything else in the "paranormal entities" bucket are non-corporeal entities of the same general categories. To me, the Greys are demons that found a modern niche that propagates their ability to collect that delicious emotional energy they love.

So then - Simulation theory simply adds that somewhere a sentient group of entities put us in this situation. Nothing about what I've already said above changes, other than some committee set rules for us, and these are how the rules work. Magic is small order effects at best. It's a boost, or I think buff is the gamer term for it. Controllers would not need to bother with magic because they are the ones that defined how magic even works, so their flick of the wrist would necessarily be more powerful than all the forces we know of in the universe. They can extinguish our sun, turn off gravity, or unbond the nuclei of atoms at will, which is more than magic or science can do.

If there are "Controllers" then are they among us? Not likely, and I don't think any non-corporeal entities are at the level of controllers. Controllers can put the rules on hold. They would operate on the level of omnipotent gods to us, not even the demiurge gods of myth and religion.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

My opinion is that "simulation theory" (which is not a theory) is just another way of saying "anything we don't understand can be ascribed to this", invoked in the same way as the supernatural was before. It's an idea which is touted as an explanation, but doesn't actually explain anything. I was extremely disappointed at a talk at the SPR, when the presenter tried to persuade us that the simulation was running on a huge computer located in Plato's Cave

Again, IMO, magic is an unforeseen consequence of normal human consciousness, and does not require a bunch of super-god-scientists with a big computer. I would however recommend reading "Ra" by qntm, if you're desperate for this sort of thing and don't mind your brain leaking out of your ears whilst reading

Lastly, I draw your attention to my sig, below.

 

[Durward]

The basics of the silly simulation ideas don't even matter, because even if it was happening, there would be absolutely nothing you could do about it, and it wouldn't change anything even if you know about it. It is thus a worthless waste of time, like most of the distraction systems created by all the lock, block, and filter systems that keep you from all real psi phenomena.
If it existed, then there would be zero magic or psi phenomena, unless the simulation allowed it to happen. There is then no free will. Some people likely blame their own failures on the simulation ideas, nice try.
The biggest issue with people following after this nonsense is that it feeds the ego, as if humans were important enough to be kept in cages and controlled. Paranoid delusion fuel.
People who promote simulation are also pretty lame, and most of them can't show any value to this thinking or the fake ideas. Campbell is a great example of a total failure trying to grab the spotlight by putting simulation out there and thus getting on talk shows and being paid for his nonsense.
The only thing that matters is results. Since we have some people getting results, it blows the simulation out of the water. This isn't the Matrix, and those getting results are not Neo's.

 

[Kellhuss]

I preferred Simulation theory when it was called ‘Descarte’s Demon’.

 

[StoatCatcher]

My take on this is a lot less in the literal sense of "we're in a computer simulation" and more in the sense of "what we experience is a simplified construction of the real reality". Think of it like this forum. Our actual posts are just clusters of digital data stored in a database somewhere. A bunch of bytes and pointers to memory that make no sense to our human minds but make perfect structured sense to the computer that thinks in these terms. What you and me are seeing as "the forum" right now is a deliberate construct by the Xenforo UI engineers to organize that data in a way that actually makes sense and allows us to communicate in an effective way with one another.

There is a lot I could say and include in this, but I'll just link this talk here because I think the presenter does a better job than me at explaining the nitty gritty of the theory.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[reverendsteveii]

there's a cute little litRPG book called "Off to Be the Wizard" that postulates that magick could, potentially, be akin to having write access to the universe's config files. for thaumaturgy it kinda works. dig if you will the idea of throwing fireballs. what if you could make a point alteration to the rules that govern the universe: in your palm you tweak the friction coefficient such that moving air generates enough heat for combustion, but also the rules surrounding heat transfer such that you can hold the subsequent ball of fiery air in your palm without hurting you. tweak the repulsive nuclear forces in your hands and in the fireball, suddenly it can launch some distance. get any of this slightly wrong and maybe set yourself on fire or cause a point collapse in the matter surrounding you or maybe even kick off a nuclear fission reaction. fun! you could get pretty granular with it. imagine you want to levitate: do you want to weigh less (tweak the gravitational constant in the area surrounding your body), or do you want to push yourself up in the air (tweak the repulsive nuclear force in the bottoms of your feet)? reading minds could involve amplifying, intercepting and interpreting EM radiation as the brain's thinking heavily involves electricity. An awful lot of things we traditionally consider magickal can be done just by being able to manipulate the laws of the universe in a very small subsection of the universe.

all of this, ofc, becomes much more plausible if you accept the idea that we're living in a simulation where things like the laws of physics are decisions made by implementers and not just emergent phenomena.

 

[StoatCatcher]

To bring this in terms of magic (which I forgot is what you're asking about), you're just changing the ways in which you brain is filtering reality and constructing a much better interface that allows you to "see" and manipulate deeper and deeper aspects of what is real. Again, using a computer analogy, think of "mundane life" as just interfacing with the programs in your computer but never actually trying to understand how they work or how to make your own. You'd be at the mercy of the people who maintain your operating system and the software you use to have a good experience out of it.

When you realize that you can create software yourself and realize there are these things called "programming languages" with which you can use to write the desired intent and thus create a program that will make that intention a reality that is you starting to walk the magical walk. But doing that necessitates that you learn to look behind the veil of pretty user interfaces and start seeing the raw flow of memory that your computer is manipulating all the time. It also means you have to do it in a careful and thoughtful way, because if you don't you'll accidentally write glitches and bugs into your program that will make it not work as well as it should. If you do a poor enough job you can straight up crash not only your program but slow down your entire computer with it.

What is your mind refusing to see around you in the process of simplifying things down for you that could be useful for you? Do you have the knowledge to hack that process to expand your view and let you do more with it? That's really what it boils down to to me.

 

[Durward]

all of this, ofc, becomes much more plausible if you accept the idea that we're living in a simulation where things like the laws of physics are decisions made by implementers and not just emergent phenomena.

And all of that, fireballs, levitation, telepathy, in these X-Men nonsense versions, are way out of proportion with any real events that actually happen, and so is the simulation idea, which isn't possible just based on the processing and power that would be involved with controlling 8.3 billion people's interactions with an entire planet, full of nature, while maintaining the laws of physics. All the super brains of the world agree that it would be highly unlikely and is a total waste of time, a fantasy, and rather futile. Even if it were real, there is nothing anyone could do about it, and everything you try to do that goes against the programming would be caught and corrected, and is thus a futile attempt, thus a waste of time... again. If there are things controlling everything, and you make waves, you would no longer exist and be deleted quickly. So, it is another lock, block, and filter system rabbit hole mind screw that keeps people from the facts and the truths that do actually exist.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

And all of that, fireballs, levitation, telepathy, in these X-Men nonsense versions, are way out of proportion with any real events that actually happen, and so is the simulation idea, which isn't possible just based on the processing and power that would be involved with controlling 8.3 billion people's interactions with an entire planet, full of nature, while maintaining the laws of physics. All the super brains of the world agree that it would be highly unlikely and is a total waste of time, a fantasy, and rather futile. Even if it were real, there is nothing anyone could do about it, and everything you try to do that goes against the programming would be caught and corrected, and is thus a futile attempt, thus a waste of time... again. If there are things controlling everything, and you make waves, you would no longer exist and be deleted quickly. So, it is another lock, block, and filter system rabbit hole mind screw that keeps people from the facts and the truths that do actually exist.

The only way it could even remotely be possible is if the Universe is the "computer". And it still falls into the category of "let's not and say we did"

 

[Kepler]

Simulation hypothesis is a one way express ticket to infinite regress. It's the typical transcendent fallacy about magic and reality that rises from uninformed and inexperienced speculation.

 

[Durward]

The only way it could even remotely be possible is if the Universe is the "computer". And it still falls into the category of "let's not and say we did"

Chemistry and chemical reactions are more like exact computerized functions than most of the garbage programming humans have produced, so I suppose the universe doing what it does can look like a computer... but hot pockets are not a balanced diet.
An interesting side note, some man-made synthetics are slowly changing their melting point without changing the ingredients, or the quality or source of those ingredients. Evolution?
I doubt a simulation would take these tiny details and apply that to the entire system, or bother to change melting points. If anything, it would stay the same so it wouldn't draw attention.
I have a ton more examples that would show the only simulation is the human ego. People seem to think that when they are extinct and gone, nothing else will continue to exist, because obviously the entire universe rotates around the ego of human beings and their subjective ability to experience something.
Newsflash People: The universe is there without people looking at it, always has been, always will be. Just the gall to think that everything is here for your benefit, or to fool you, or to manipulate you, shows some seriously sick nonsense. I wonder how many of the simulation believers also think they are being stalked or monitored? Like they are at all important enough for that expense.
These are discussions that show that people have too much time to think about stuff, and are obviously not trying to survive or working two jobs to pay the elite more and more money. Basement dweller barf, cesspool mouthwash, one brain cell left. Next subject please.

 

[borbponderer]

It's another Otherworld that literal minded folks might mistake for reality. I suppose you could do stuff with it but it's not my cup of tea. Prefer nature