What is the overall consensus about Crowley and his writings here?

[Vandheer]

Do you think he walked the talk or not?

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

I believe so.
Magick in Theory and Practice, (parts of) Magick, Book 4, Vision and the Voice, Sepher Sapphire, 777 I've read.
He certainly would he a tremendously awesome fiction writer if he didn't. I'm talking Tolkein would he considered a noob in comparison.
My opinion.

 

[Vandheer]

Book 4

I have read the first part of this one, its called Meditation I think. It was excellent, barebones of meditation without annoying eastern dogma attached to it. I skipped over the second part as it was about making magickal items. Magick in Theory and Practice I have still not finished. Learned a thing or two from it but didn’t do much other than that. The fourth part I haven't touched upon yet.

777

Now to be fair we know these are mostly papers he stole from Golden Dawn when Mathers chose not to give him the Adeptus Minor grade. Aside from adding stuff from east that is. However considering its time, especially the Revised version is excellent. It also has gotten another upgrade by James Eshelman, you might be interested. Its called 776.5. Even that version is outdated compared to Complete Magicians Tables by Skinner though. But for its time, its top notch.


I could go on talking I guess, I have read a lot of what he wrote and suggested, I am always on the fence about him. He certainly was good but I don’t know if he deserves his hype. Thats why I am asking.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

Yep, have them both. Also a revised 777.
Eschepman and Skinner both did a terrific job.

He was certainly a.man who knew what he wanted from the start.
Two years through the GD and the Mathers bit.

Nick Farrell wrote three or four books on the inter office politics of Mathers and company.

Very interesting works, it also explains why the standard rituals would have been as effective as a BOTA initiation, and what was necessary to add or remove 8n symbolism or text.

Nobody can deny copycats weren't rampant within the Golden Dawn and offshoots.

Again, a kingdom divided cannot stand.

If the GD were a kingdom at the time. We would probably discuss only Crowley and LaVey.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

If the movie of him was an accurate portrayal of his skills (John Malcovich played the character I think), I think he was the real deal.

 

[Vandheer]

Yep, have them both. Also a revised 777.
Eschepman and Skinner both did a terrific job.

Yeah, these are essential books many ceremonial magicians should have. You found a goldmine. I am studying Shem angels in Skinners book at the moment.

Nick Farrell wrote three or four books on the inter office politics of Mathers and company.

I remember of Mathers Last Secret and King Over the Water but damn, 4 books? I know Farrell is a GD academic but this throw me off the hook.

Nobody can deny copycats weren't rampant within the Golden Dawn and offshoots.

Well I am not judging Crowley from getting those papers while all I ever did was downloading pdfs, would be hypocritical of me.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

Yeah, these are essential books many ceremonial magicians should have. You found a goldmine. I am studying Shem angels in Skinners book at the moment.



I remember of Mathers Last Secret and King Over the Water but damn, 4 books? I know Farrell is a GD academic but this throw me off the hook.


Well I am not judging Crowley from getting those papers while all I ever did was downloading pdfs, would be hypocritical of me.

I agree. Mr Skinner is quite the subject.matter expert imo.

I may be exaggerating by four. Those two included, one on the Tarot, Shem Grimoire ... I had just a few books of his. Maybe that's where I got four. But I seem to recall more than two on the subject.
Also, with Pat Zalewskis help, a lot more was known about the GD.

True. However, me being the bibliophile and anthropologist I am, will replace many lost books and a whole new Hermetic and magic library courtesy of jobs, Amazon and a PO Box.

 

[Konsciencia]

Oh, I respect and honor Aleister Crowley. However, I haven't read most of his books, but I had the Book of The Law, which was the best. I really believe that Crowley went through a lot to get to where he was when he was alive, but I know in my Heart that He reached, and went higher after his death. I would like to visit Him in the Astral world, and learn from Crowley himself over the Spiritual World. That's one of my goals.

 

[Vandheer]

True. However, me being the bibliophile and anthropologist I am, will replace many lost books and a whole new Hermetic and magic library courtesy of jobs, Amazon and a PO Box.

I am unsure what you mean here , English isn’t my native tounge. But if you are looking for Hermetic knowledge I have a good list.



“Hermetica" by Brian Copenhaver, it is translation of the Corpus Hermeticum and Asclepius. Two most well known Hermetic texts in one. It is a little academic however.

For an easier read you can get The Way of Hermes (Which includes the Armenian Definitions/Definitions of Hermes Trismegistus to Asclepius. Only this book has this afaik.) and Asclepius by Clement Salaman.

The Eight Tractates by David Myatt is very archaic and will make you think much more.

"Hermetica II" by David Litva, it has translations of the Stobaean Fragments, Oxford Fragments, Vienna Fragments, and much more...


These were theorical/philosophical. Practical Hermetic texts I know would be: Demotic Magical Papyrus, PGM, and Picatrix.


But you seem more of a Hermetic Qabalah follower than pure Hermetic to me, so this post may be unhelpful.

 

[Öwnchef]

Uncle Al will give you a very hard time. It took me studies over decades to grasp what he did or meant. But he had a key. Liber Aleph was written as a test if you had it correctly. Only then would the text give you the missing keystone.

The key has not been found yet. Well not published that is.

The Paris Workings are fun to read, btw.

 

[Konsciencia]

Uncle Al will give you a very hard time. It took me studies over decades to grasp what he did or meant. But he had a key. Liber Aleph was written as a test if you had it correctly. Only then would the text give you the missing keystone.

The key has not been found yet. Well not published that is.

The Paris Workings are fun to read,

You know? Now that I think about it. Uncle Al knowing him, would give me a hard time understanding his work whenever I see him in the Astral. He won't give it to me easy.

 

[Roma]

I heard an account of AC asking for help after he died - from a GD magician in Edinburgh. Apparently some deal was done

Many years later I met AC a couple of times in his post-mortem state. The grumpy sod was still trying to use personal will to transcend the personality. It was not working of course.

About then, he learned that the heart allows rising on the planes after death, and eventually moved up to the second mental subplane. My mother has done better than AC.

 

[Konsciencia]

I heard an account of AC asking for help after he died - from a GD magician in Edinburgh. Apparently some deal was done

Many years later I met AC a couple of times in his post-mortem state. The grumpy sod was still trying to use personal will to transcend the personality. It was not working of course.

About then, he learned that the heart allows rising on the planes after death, and eventually moved up to the second mental subplane. My mother has done better than AC.

Oh wow! My understanding of when we die, is that we will remember everything. But, if AC has not figure it out yet, then I don't know.

 

[Roma]

when we die, is that we will remember everything.

Understanding (seeing what stands under) is a critical component of knowing

Knowingness usually exceeds the capacity of the personality and often exceeds what the heart can contain (second stage enlightenment).