What's the Most Unhinged/Controversial Occult Insight you have?

[Morell]

I mean, Weren't Pokemon considered of the devil at a point?

Yep.

 

[Magus314]

This is true.



This is not true.

When I was very young, I got turned on to this idea of private, quiet, and even secret non-charlaten magical practitioners with genuine power well beyond those whose names we all know.

1. Those who have any kind of real amazing magical power tend to be totally fucked when it comes to real life. There are people whose magical power has amazed me. None of them can keep it together in a normal sense.

2. Those who have the secret sauce to make their lives impressive tend to have gotten it by other means. People go into a mega rich home and find them making lion skin belts and drawing circles on the floor, it doesnt mean their magic made them what they are.

We are all just as clueless as each other. Some people do more, some less, but none of us have sure knowledge or really any demonstrable power except in retrospect.

The "secret masters" are an urban legend.

I have spent many years and much effort looking for and pestering people about that, and it has always been bunk. It always ends up being someone who is just "cool" and these people are usually a lot less competent and articulate than some of the regulars here. So there aren't these hidden exemplars of magical virtuosity out there quietly being very effective. Nope, its just us old fat balding assholes and our books and collections of paraphernalia trying to contact demons in our basements.

I don’t believe in a cabal of secret chiefs either (no robed Illuminati pulling levers behind the astral veil). But I do think that anyone with real power tends not to advertise it.

A lot of published authors who loudly claim they’ve summoned the spirit kings of the Lesser Key or completed the Abramelin (a rite that requires binding the four spirit kings and grants dominion over treasure spirits) are very publicly struggling to pay rent. If you take their stories at face value, the math does not math. It actually reinforces your point that public claims of attainment are almost always generously embellished.

But here’s where my experience differs from yours. The only person I’ve ever met who showed anything that looked like real ability (spirits responding and manifesting followed by material results) was the complete opposite of the chaotic wizard in a basement stereotype. He clearly had his shit together, was very well off, low-key, and didn’t want attention.

So in my admittedly limited experience, the pattern has been the louder the magician, the less is happening, and the one person who actually had something going on had no brand, no students, no merch table, no Patreon (just a scholarly old blog and then radio silence).

Make of that what you will.

 

[cormundum]

Most occult and magical authors are charlatans. Look around, see how desperate they really are to sell you their systems, products and books.

If they truly had power why are they grinding the snakeoil salesman life? - podcasts, forums, discord chats, conventions, constantly selling their image and grifting off the gullible, those with real power are in the background, out of the public spotlight, running shit from the shadows. Most of us will likely never even know their names.

Bingo. It's good to finally see people get fed up with all the talking heads in magickal circles. Nearly all of them are full of it and haven't seen or done the least bit of real magick in their lives. That's why they're busy telling people to "buy my course/goat anus paper book" and consider success in wealth magick to literally be getting a job, which has nothing to do with actual wealth or golden florins or any of that stuff.

 

[Faria]

But here’s where my experience differs from yours. The only person I’ve ever met who showed anything that looked like real ability (spirits responding and manifesting followed by material results) was the complete opposite of the chaotic wizard in a basement stereotype. He clearly had his shit together, was very well off, low-key, and didn’t want attention.

This type of person is not terribly uncommon among practitioners. To perform most of what's in grimoires, Enochian, Golden Dawn, etc. it takes some time and money, so you will find that a lot of them are well-read professional types who take their work seriously and aren't looking to be anybody's guru. But, like I said, these people are basically on the same page as the regulars here: we all sort what we can from the books, and practice as best as we can.

What I am saying is mythical are people somehow "beyond" all that, whose skills, knowledge, or occult perspective justify holding them in some other category of practitioner. I believe that all of us, if we are for real, are exploring and experimenting and that we cannot claim to be much more than that.

Was Eliphas Levi legit? Probably not. For all 3000 pages he wrote, he seems to have done one conjuration once, which he made-up on the spot and was terrified of, earning no practical results. But he made his reputation as the supreme magus of Europe and kicked off the revival that ultimately led to us all being here.

 

[Asobelle]

Omni malevolence desires to cause harm. Omni benevolence desires to help. They are intelligent forces beyond any one subjective view point, and when dealing with spirits, it helps to know their agenda. If you don't work with spirits, I suppose it doesn't really matter.

Post automatically merged: Sunday at 11:56 PM

Unfortunately, we humans have a tendency of misusing the concepts of good and evil. Often then creating evil in the name of good. Rather a mute point in my opinion.

I mean, Weren't Pokemon considered of the devil at a point?

Omni malevolence desires to cause harm. Omni benevolence desires to help. They are intelligent forces beyond any one subjective view point, and when dealing with spirits, it helps to know their agenda. If you don't work with spirits, I suppose it doesn't really matter.

Post automatically merged: Sunday at 11:57 PM

Omni malevolence desires to cause harm. Omni benevolence desires to help. They are intelligent forces beyond any one subjective view point, and when dealing with spirits, it helps to know their agenda. If you don't work with spirits, I suppose it doesn't really matter.

Post automatically merged: Sunday at 11:56 PM

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 12:38 AM

Omni malevolence desires to cause harm. Omni benevolence desires to help. They are intelligent forces beyond any one subjective view point, and when dealing with spirits, it helps to know their agenda. If you don't work with spirits, I suppose it doesn't really matter.

Post automatically merged: Sunday at 11:56 PM

Omni malevolence desires to cause harm. Omni benevolence desires to help. They are intelligent forces beyond any one subjective view point, and when dealing with spirits, it helps to know their agenda. If you don't work with spirits, I suppose it doesn't really matter.

Post automatically merged: Sunday at 11:57 PM

I don't know why this posted my reply 3 times. I am a bit phone challenged, though. Sorry.

 

[Angelkesfarl]

"To be a true Magus, you must truly know what Magic is. It is not all those things that initially fascinated me through intense discussion, only to soon find out they were merely artificial lights and not the genuine suns of knowledge.

Everything the books spoke of—the inner journey, Esoteric Kabbalah, traversing the heavens via the so-called Kundalini, and all those Eastern and Western heresies—does not amount to more than a handful of dust beneath the foot of a true Magus.

I dedicated myself solely to Western books for over a year—2025 is the year of the West—but I found nothing, forgive me, but epistemological nonsense (cognitive rubbish) and worthless worship of entities that have been forgotten in their original homelands.

Most of the books that are now open projects for translation, which have taken me all this time—Steganographia, for example—are nothing more than cryptography built upon the spiritual nonsense of how to write an encrypted message. And to this day, I find those who claim that these systems work and that they send messages via spirits that no one has ever seen and which exist only in the imaginations of their professional creators.

The truth is that most Western writers drowned their students of magic in Esotericism and led them out of mere spiritual training for magic into a realm of fictional narrative and secrecy about worlds that exist only in the minds of their frequenters.

I do not deny that Black Magic, in itself, has its practitioners and devil worshipers everywhere, but where are the devils

 

[Robert Ramsay]

"To be a true Magus, you must truly know what Magic is. It is not all those things that initially fascinated me through intense discussion, only to soon find out they were merely artificial lights and not the genuine suns of knowledge.

Everything the books spoke of—the inner journey, Esoteric Kabbalah, traversing the heavens via the so-called Kundalini, and all those Eastern and Western heresies—does not amount to more than a handful of dust beneath the foot of a true Magus.

I dedicated myself solely to Western books for over a year—2025 is the year of the West—but I found nothing, forgive me, but epistemological nonsense (cognitive rubbish) and worthless worship of entities that have been forgotten in their original homelands.

Most of the books that are now open projects for translation, which have taken me all this time—Steganographia, for example—are nothing more than cryptography built upon the spiritual nonsense of how to write an encrypted message. And to this day, I find those who claim that these systems work and that they send messages via spirits that no one has ever seen and which exist only in the imaginations of their professional creators.

The truth is that most Western writers drowned their students of magic in Esotericism and led them out of mere spiritual training for magic into a realm of fictional narrative and secrecy about worlds that exist only in the minds of their frequenters.

I do not deny that Black Magic, in itself, has its practitioners and devil worshipers everywhere, but where are the devils

What you are talking about here is exactly what I mentioned in another thread - people use various magical systems without success because they have mistaken the map for the territory. There are a huge number of Zen koans, because who knows which one - if any - will open up a particular person to enlightenment?

People can blindly follow any magical system and be no better off at the end as the beginning. When you talk about 'a true Magus', it's someone for whom magic has been unlocked, for whatever reason, and by whatever method. The heart of it is not the book, but the experience that book can open to you. And ofc it doesn't have to be a book.

 

[Angelkesfarl]

What you are talking about here is exactly what I mentioned in another thread - people use various magical systems without success because they have mistaken the map for the territory. There are a huge number of Zen koans, because who knows which one - if any - will open up a particular person to enlightenment?

People can blindly follow any magical system and be no better off at the end as the beginning. When you talk about 'a true Magus', it's someone for whom magic has been unlocked, for whatever reason, and by whatever method. The heart of it is not the book, but the experience that book can open to you. And ofc it doesn't have to be a book.

I strongly agree with you. What you are saying is what a million Western books on modern magic say, yet practical experience equals one word from an experienced practitioner, which is better than the sum of all those books..! Do you know what the Spiritual Covenant Sequence is, or how to obtain Spiritual Authority (or Sanction) from a genuine practitioner?

 

[Mars]

Most occult and magical authors are charlatans. Look around, see how desperate they really are to sell you their systems, products and books.

If they truly had power why are they grinding the snakeoil salesman life? - podcasts, forums, discord chats, conventions, constantly selling their image and grifting off the gullible, those with real power are in the background, out of the public spotlight, running shit from the shadows. Most of us will likely never even know their names.

"There is always a Book"

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 4:07 PM

Also, its so interesting what kind of answers come out. You can see all the different systems or beliefs underneath them.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

I strongly agree with you. What you are saying is what a million Western books on modern magic say, yet practical experience equals one word from an experienced practitioner, which is better than the sum of all those books..! Do you know what the Spiritual Covenant Sequence is, or how to obtain Spiritual Authority (or Sanction) from a genuine practitioner?

I learned about magic by teaching myself about physics and philosophy.

 

[Angelkesfarl]

I learned about magic by teaching myself about physics and philosophy.

"I believe that Philosophy is a good entry point to Magic, as it divides matters into the imaginary and the real, distinguishes between them, and establishes solid foundations for building upon. And Alchemy is the art of magical arts. Magical compositions are a chemical reaction, especially when you speak of one of the most precise arts of alchemy: the art of seducing spirits to serve you. In this case, the exchange is not through sacrifices, but through magical compositions that grant them power. Here, the relationship is at least reciprocal and respectful.

Thank you, my friend. Continue...

A question: 'Do you know what the Magic of the Nārjanjiyyah (Citrus/Orange) is?' I believe it will be beneficial for you."