[Help] Which one do you believe in

[Mashreqi]

What is your opinion regarding the issue of whether supernatural entities exist independently or if they are created through our mental energy what experiences do you have that confirm these two

 

[beardedeldridge]

There are independent entities but we also create others.

Experiences: Summoning ones and creating others.

-Eld

 

[Mashreqi]

There are independent entities but we also create others.

Experiences: Summoning ones and creating others.

-Eld

It is very fascinating Would you like to talk about how to summon and create those entities

 

[Fausto]

I believe myself.

 

[Soror Epihania]

What is your opinion regarding the issue of whether supernatural entities exist independently or if they are created through our mental energy what experiences do you have that confirm these two

Entities use our mental energy to manifest. In an ultimate sense there is no such thing as an 'independent entity'. All things are interwoven.

 

[beardedeldridge]

Entities use our mental energy to manifest. In an ultimate sense there is no such thing as an 'independent entity'. All things are interwoven.

Since everything comes from one source, if you do a shot of whiskey and squint just right, I’m down with this.

Everything is happening in our heads. It just may not be our head. Lol

 

[Firetree]

I think sometimes it is one, or the other and sometimes a combination of both ; either/or .

I will give two examples ... actually , I will give three types of examples ( to illustrate the three ideas above ) ;

1. Created by 'mental energy' ( for want of a better term ) ; the first immediate idea is a 'tulpa' ; '' emanation or manifestation in traditional mysticism, it referred to a spiritual discipline or mental concentration used to manifest a physical or thought-form entitity .

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Personal experience ; after a long and detailed Enochian working involving 'travelling to and inside the 'squares' visualized as pyramids , I had a very vivid and seemingly 'real' and independent experience in another world and conversed with other beings . Much later , after cross reference and studying magical diaries and reviewing this working ( hence the importance of this part of practice ) I realized certain aspects where generated from myself, things I had read and specifically certain cartoons I watched and somehow resonated with , as a child ,

- then again .... did I really encounter another realm and beings and put this 'framework' around then so as to be able to understand or comprehend this experience ? We know people will do that . The indigenous here historically report theor reactions on seeing large ships for the first time ; clouds on the horizon ( sails ) , a giant pelican , a 'water insect walking aopver the water with men on its back ( a long ship with men working the oars ) etc . No giant insect was there ... but something WAS there that was not generated by their minds ,,, but the form they perceived was there .

That doesnt really help one way pr the other though .

2. Independent existence . We can ask that about anything ; is 'it' ( and us ) all 'maya' - 'illusion ' ? I was at a talk with a Buddhist monk explaining this . I had to follow up with him later, where he reiterated the same . But then when I asked ''What about 'consensual reality' ? '' he smiled and offered ; ''Well, there is that, '' meaning , if I can see a acertain detailed thing , how come you can see it the same way ? To explore that might be a bit too philosophical for this thread .

But it does seem valid ; sometimes , very unusual things are seen by more than one person . The sceptic claims 'mass hallucination ' .. come one now ! Those explanations usually get so tied up in theselves , they end up explaining , at least , something 'supernatural ' ( which leads to the third option below ) .

I still get tangled up in this ( if I allow myself to be ) ; I have a long term , deep and meaningful relationship and contact to a friend that died . many times I got skeptical and doubted it ( thats my nature ... yep, a 40+ year practitioner of ritual magick and I am skeptical ) ... until once they got annoyed and threatened to give up and break contact if I kept up with the doubt and offered one last demonstration as proof ... it was very specific and crazy , that would never happen , I thought . ... BAM! It happened within 2 minutes , So I changed my mind . Yes there could have been other explanations , but they required just as unusual and supernatural explanations . In any case I decided to accept the proof as independent existence , and I am glad I did .

3 . This is complex , I won't go it it here but hand it over to Patrick Harpur and his work on 'Daimonic Reality ' .

- it seems even the modern occult world is stuck in the either / or , dualism of modern interpretation of reality . WE were not always like that but originally had a 3 part view ( that Harpur explores ) this changed from around 1400-1500 through to 1700 . To explore this massive change in consciousness , I think, is crucial in understanding these issues ;

A good source is here , even if only the first few chapters are read ;

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(free pdf )

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Post automatically merged: Monday at 10:57 PM

Since everything comes from one source, if you do a shot of whiskey and squint just right, I’m down with this.

Everything is happening in our heads. It just may not be our head. Lol

'Cute' .... a bit like my ' its just your imagination ' ..... no it isnt 'just' that .

 

[Mannimarco]

What is your opinion regarding the issue of whether supernatural entities exist independently or if they are created through our mental energy what experiences do you have that confirm these two

Both are true, of different entities. Djinn, extra terrestrials, Angels, all exist in their home realms, without human attention or awareness. At the same time, through interacting with humans, egregores of all of them have been created. The egregores are the ones we normally interact with, as they are nearer to us, much more closely connected to us, and usually dependent on us as well. As far as i know, human dieties are created exclusively through human attention.

I don't find the differences between egregores, and independent entities from other realms, to actually make any difference. If anything, egregores are easier to contact, and more willing to engage. They should not be looked down on, or treated badly, just because they are egregores.

 

[Nembra]

What is your opinion regarding the issue of whether supernatural entities exist independently or if they are created through our mental energy what experiences do you have that confirm these two

All things exist independently, in a way. That being said, I do think much of what spirits are to us is made of mental substrate of human culture.