Why can't astrologers calculate the date of someone's death?

[Johny111]

I must emphasize that I have only a basic knowledge of astrology, but I know many people who practice astrology, both amateur and professional. Some of them are so good that they can calculate the approximate time of someone's birth even if the person seeking their advice does not know the exact time of their birth. Some of these astrologers can have extraordinary insight into the circumstances of someone's life and make relevant conclusions regarding the future fate of that person. However, none of these astrologers have been able to determine, if not the exact, then at least the approximate date of someone's death. If you, as an astrologer, are already able to calculate the exact (or approximate) date of someone's birth, then what is the problem with calculating the date of someone's death? Doctors can sometimes predict the duration of the remaining life of a person with cancer, but astrologers, who often claim that astrology is a science, cannot do that. Why?

 

[Adelina]

If you don't know something, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Surely it is much easier to rectify the time of birth, because mistake isn't so obvious, which is suitable for psychologists masking themselves as astrologers.

It is much harder to predict death just like it is much harder to predict future than to "predict" past.

But methods are out there.

 

[Johny111]

But methods are out there.

I would like to share your optimism, but so far I have not come across a single astrologer who is able to determine the date of someone's death, nor am I sure that anyone has invented a method for that purpose.

 

[beardedeldridge]

Astrology isn’t fate and it’s best used to understand those forces that are affecting an individual or event not necessarily the actual outcome. And those forces aren’t the only ones affecting an individual. The ole the timing is favorable for this endeavor not that it’s guaranteed to be a success. Now I’ve never watched someone reverse calculate a date of birth, will have to give that some thought.

After all, impending financial/medical/relationship hardships ahead mean very different things for different people.

Fun thought: I think I know the year of my death but not sure it does me any good. Best case scenario, I’m right and my last thoughts as this life fades away are “nailed it”.

-Eld

 

[Johny111]

Fun thought: I think I know the year of my death but not sure it does me any good. Best case scenario, I’m right and my last thoughts as this life fades away are “nailed it”.

Every January 1st, I think about how the coming year is the year I will die. Then I try to negotiate and bargain with death.

 

[DeTerminator]

I've been a student of astrology for many years. I can give you my own ideas on your question, based on that. Some of those ideas align with what has already been mentioned. Astrology is, among other things, a way of measuring different energies and their timing. It's about using symbols for energy. How an energy is manifested is not definite, as has been mentioned. There can be an infinite numbers of ways for energy to materialize, and those ways are in a state of flux. We can't always see all the details involved when using astrology to predict an outcome. There might be a few indicators that collaborate to support a possible outcome, however, nothing is written in stone as far as the future goes. As mentioned, it is fairly easy to look at the past and see the astrological reasoning for events. Not so easy to say a specific energy will manifest itself in one certain way.

Rectifying a person's natal chart, or adjusting a birth time that is fairly close but unknown, is based partly on looking at the events of a person's past to adjust the timing of their birth. First it is good to be in the ball park though.

Astrology can indicate the likelihood for an event to occur, or be used to plan future events., among other things. Predicting the time of a person's death can carry with it a serious responsibility, and that could possibly be withheld from those that aren't up to that responsibility,

 

[MagickalStudent569]

I must emphasize that I have only a basic knowledge of astrology, but I know many people who practice astrology, both amateur and professional. Some of them are so good that they can calculate the approximate time of someone's birth even if the person seeking their advice does not know the exact time of their birth. Some of these astrologers can have extraordinary insight into the circumstances of someone's life and make relevant conclusions regarding the future fate of that person. However, none of these astrologers have been able to determine, if not the exact, then at least the approximate date of someone's death. If you, as an astrologer, are already able to calculate the exact (or approximate) date of someone's birth, then what is the problem with calculating the date of someone's death? Doctors can sometimes predict the duration of the remaining life of a person with cancer, but astrologers, who often claim that astrology is a science, cannot do that. Why?

They can or at least good ones can. Western Astrology is very very sketchy to me at best. People trying to divorce it from religion, mysticism, spirituality of it's roots so as to combine with other pseudo-sciences such as psychology is strange to me. Mostly because it assumes it's not really a real force that exerts pressure on peoples lives and is only something in their mind. Yet statistically we known that violent murders go up during full moons as well affect the tides. We are made up of mostly water yet somehow a force that affects most of the other water sources on the planet shouldn't be affecting us? I just cannot rationalize how someone else can rationalize that. It beggars belief.

Vedic Astrologers can and do predict things among which is death. How to measure their accuracy though is something I cannot answer. Perhaps a site like RateMDs or something but for astrologers might help? The less people take it seriously the greater the amount of low quality will flourish. I can't speak for all astrologers but I have some family acquaintances that had their marriage and career charts done before their arranged marriages along with when they are born. Their lives more or less went smoothly and they seemed pretty happy with the results. They said someone with their own family knew someone in India and they had been going to that person for years. I know it's anecdotal but I've never heard anyone in the West sing praises of the astrologers here with the same respect.

I also have a bit of personal story that ties into my life long interest in Astrology. That being I've always been interested in it since as far back as when I first learned to read. I always gravitated towards the Occult, Meta-Physical, Paranormal sections of the bookstore when I was taken as a child. Long story short though, it turns out the grandfather I never knew that died when I was growing up, was also a Astrologer himself. According to my Dad and Aunt (His Sister) he taught himself Vedic Astrology and Palmistry from some old books he found. They never said where he found them but he did somewhere. He was a Professor of History with a degree from Oxford so it's possible he learned from there... Regardless he started doing both on the side in edition to teaching. I'm not sure how successful he was at it but my Aunt claims many people came to him. She also said one time he even predicted someone's death and that they died more or less how he said on the day he said. How the person died was quite sad, as apparently the family did not listen, doing exactly what he said not to do. So I know for a fact it is possible at least when it comes to Vedic Astrology.

 

[AbammonTheGreat]

Astrology isn’t fate and it’s best used to understand those forces that are affecting an individual or event not necessarily the actual outcome. And those forces aren’t the only ones affecting an individual. The ole the timing is favorable for this endeavor not that it’s guaranteed to be a success. Now I’ve never watched someone reverse calculate a date of birth, will have to give that some thought.

After all, impending financial/medical/relationship hardships ahead mean very different things for different people.

Fun thought: I think I know the year of my death but not sure it does me any good. Best case scenario, I’m right and my last thoughts as this life fades away are “nailed it”.

-Eld

I would like to point out that this is an incredibly modern perspective on astrology. The idea of the planets representing archetypal forces of the personality and interpersonal reactions with the cosmos, that these forces are elastic, malleable and highly adaptive to the individual's "will" or control is not the astrology that has been practiced for thousands of years. And while there have always been detractors amongst occultists to the reality of the fatalistic nature of the planets (Agrippa being one of the shining examples of someone who went against the astrological community by declaring the fatalistic aspect of astrology was superstition) that the reality of astrology outside of modern natal astrology is that they are entirely tied to a concept of fate. And the fates are an idea or concept we have held in great importance for the majority of our history, the dissolution of fate as a governing principle of men comes on the tail-end of the individuation of the western man. It is a post-industrial symptom as we have further divorced ourselves from a union with the will of God, with the fates, in favor of the exaltation of the self and individual as laid out by the enlightenment philosophy.

"...as god of fire and spirit, crafted seven governors; they encompass the sensible world in circles, and their government is called fate..." - Hermes Trismegistus; The Divine Poimandres 1:9

The astrologer, as a hermetic scientist works with a deeply engrained belief in fate. If we look at astrological readings as divination, that IS what we are doing when we try to predict an outcome, it should be a reflective tool to access our latent psychic and intuitive faculty. The planets provide the dataset in which we are given access to information that exists in an entanglement beyond a linear experience. Their movement across the heavens is a reminder of our experience of linear time in our physical incarnation, but it is not the reality of time. Our ability to reach across the chaos matrix to extrapolate predictive information is directly correlated to our experience in magical practice.

Now the modern astrologer may have difficulty predicting events, because they have been filtered through a pragmatic type of cosmic psychoanalysis that is elastic and malleable, they are not using the tool the same way a spirit conjurer or a medium would use their tool to access that same information. And if we can accept the reality in magic, that spirits and visions can provide us with forecasts of future events; then if we reframe divination through astrology with its original intent as a dataset for events that have happened but we have no consciously experienced in this point in spacetime, then we can start to use astrology as the great astrologers of our tradition did. In its original divinatory, predictive, and magical hermetic framework. Away from the influence of Jungian psychoanalysis which more seeks to diagnose the interpersonal... we have alchemy for that.

 

[SkullTraill]

Because humans have free will and our lives are not purely deterministic.

 

[DeTerminator]

My belief too. SkullTraill. Nothing is set in stone. There may be possibilities, with a leaning toward certain outcomes that are based on the energies involved. But nothing is definite. Just my own thoughts.

 

[JohnnyOmm]

If you don't know something, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Surely it is much easier to rectify the time of birth, because mistake isn't so obvious, which is suitable for psychologists masking themselves as astrologers.

It is much harder to predict death just like it is much harder to predict future than to "predict" past.

But methods are out there.

numerology enemy years

 

[Robert Ramsay]

Because humans have free will and our lives are not purely deterministic.

I would add , however, that according to "divine short, enchant long" any attempt to predict a date of death runs the risk of becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy, as does any prediction more than maybe two weeks ahead.

 

[WetMudAirFire]

An occult answer might be Chaos. A non-hermetic answer might be chaos. Imagine, if you will, that an astrological reading has given you a precise time, precise place for leaving. You could usurp the reading with an act of will.

 

[FireBorn]

Because humans have free will and our lives are not purely deterministic.

This is the sword that cut to the heart, precisely and cleanly. It doesn't discount Astrology at all. But the nuance in that statement wasn't small, worth unpacking for clarity and integration.

Fate. Astrology doesn't lend itself towards fate. What if we look at it as mirroring a current (your life). Current flows, bends, winds, always moving. We choose, this is destiny. Actively, or passively, we choose.

If you knew the exact date of your death, what would you be doing differently? Maybe this is the meat of the original search. If you would be doing things differently if you knew you the date of your death, maybe that is something worth looking at and embodying.

 

[aviaf]

Astrology can give insight into personality, life patterns, and periods of opportunity or vulnerability because planetary positions at birth correlate with tendencies. Predicting an exact date of death, however, is fundamentally different. Life is influenced by countless factors—choices, environment, genetics, chance—that a chart can’t account for.
Astrologers can indicate periods of risk or transition, but not certainties. Many also avoid death predictions for ethical reasons, since giving a date could create fear or influence outcomes psychologically. Astrology excels at probabilities, tendencies, and timing—not absolute certainties, especially regarding life and death.

 

[kybalion1]

Richard Houck had written a book regarding the information you seek.

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[HoldAll]

Richard Houck had written a book regarding the information you seek.

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Working online scribd downloader:

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[ABwatt]

There's a few techniques that work on a "symbolic" level for helping non-professional astrologers cope with questions of "when am I going to die?" and are good for sort of understanding the nature of astrological "Timelord techniques". Timelord Techniques sounds like something from Doctor Who, but it's a real thing: the Greek word was kronokrator or "time-lord" or "time-ruler" or "lord of time."

Tsadi Sati​

One of the first that I learned is an Indian/Jyotish technique called the Tsadi Sati (I'm not really sure of the spelling). In broad strokes the technique works like this: 1) You look for the moment that the transiting Saturn arrives at the position that is 30° ahead of your natal Moon, and follow it during its movement to the position 30° after the natal Moon position. So, if you had the Moon at 0° Pisces, the Tsadi Sati period would last from 0° Aquarius to 0°Taurus, and would cover Saturn's movements through the signs of Aquarius, Pisces, and Aries. Over the course of a 90-ish year period, this is likely to happen three times (and since Saturn's passage through one sign takes 2.5-3 years, this is about 7.75-8 years overall):

1. The first time it happens, your grandparents are likely to die, or at least "run out of steam" and be unable to continue to contribute to the lives of others;
2. the second time it happens, your parents are likely to die or "run out of steam"
3. the third time it happens, you yourself are likely to die or "run out of steam".

I personally have found that the Tsadi Sati system is 'symbolically useful' but not 'precisely useful' in my practice. My own grandparents didn't die during my first Tsadi Sati period... but between my time in college and their time first in retirement and then dealing with medical issues, I didn't see them much and they didn't contribute much to my personal development as a person any more. I'm currently in my second Tsadi Sati period, and my parents aren't dead... but they're both in their mid 80s, and not in the best of health, and I am managing more and more of their caretaking. They've run out of energy to do much, for sure. And many of my professional clients have found this kind of 'estimate of energy levels' helpful in their long-range planning around caretaking elder family members or thinking about their book publication schedules or what-have-you.

So, Tsadi Sati won't predict when someone will die... but it will kind of predict when you or various loved one in your life will face the mix of old age, health problems, and loss of purpose that accompanies old age.

Jupiter Returns​

The second technique that can kind of help non-astrologers make sense of TimeLord systems is one that people are pretty familiar with, the Saturn Return: the first of three usually occurs around 30 years of age (29-31), the second at around 60 (59-61), and the third at around 90. But dividing your life into thirds isn't really all that helpful. The Jupiter cycle is about 12 years long, and Jupiter returns to the place it was in the sky at your birth about every 11-12 years. So this set of divisions of your life are much more useful:

1. 0-12 - the child - Moon
2. 12-24 - the student - Mercury
3. 24-36 - the lover - Venus
4. 36-48 - the soldier - Mars
5. 48-60 - the magistrate - Sun
6. 60-72 - the retiree (the pantaloon is the old word) - Jupiter
7. 72-84 - second childhood - Saturn
8. 84-96 - extreme old age - Eclipse Nodes
9. etc - the realm of fixed stars

Each Jupiter return cycle is (as shown) associated with one of the Seven Visible Planets... there's a bit of weirdness that Mars is said to come before the Sun, which is a flip of the usual frames of reference (usually Sun then Mars), but essentially it represents the growth of the soul over decades, as it reaches heavenward. the body gives up more and more of its moisture and its materiality, and becomes more and more attenuated and spirited, and eventually lets go of flesh and flies back to the Source. (You don't have to believe this, it's just part of the historical astrological world-view).

It is easier to do some things in some life-periods than it is to do them in others; and certain kinds of challenges are more likely to arrive in one period of life than in others; Divorces, for example, are far more common in the Soldier period than in the Lover or Magistrate periods, because anger and force are are lot closer to the surface. It's a lot easier to have children in the Lover period, and to get married (or to be a player); it's more difficult to get rich quick, because you fall in love with newness at that age: hobbies, you want to travel, you want new clothes, etc. Soldiers have to fight for promotions at work and compete against other people in both other companies as well as their own; Magistrates find it easy to get ahead and win promotions — provided that they proved a loyal soldier in the previous 12 years.

So, again, Jupiter returns don't predict when you're going to DIE, but they do point to some kinds of risk-factors and opportunity-factors in each age-group, and also indicate what kinds of risks accumulate over time — just because you've left behind the Venus era of your life, doesn't mean that Venusian style illnesses or risk factors can't creep into your life.

This has gotten long, so I'll stop here.

 

[rplsv]

Some can do that, but is is believed that they only cover themeself with Astrology. Ive read about many cases and as I remember the most is right about their date of death.
From other perspective it is not so GOOD to wish sombody death... and sure other thing is medical astrology and when someone is very ill.
There is much more to consider in this topic.

Cheers

 

[ABwatt]

[…]
From other perspective it is not so GOOD to wish sombody death... and sure other thing is medical astrology and when someone is very ill.
There is much more to consider in this topic.

Cheers

@rplsv is absolutely correct here. Telling someone "this is when you're going to die," is kind of like cursing them; it's a form of psychological attack in one sense; or even malefic magic. The Organization for Professional Astrology (OPA in fact, makes it a part of their code of ethics NOT to make fatalistic statements for people, which to my mind would include any kind of rigid pronouncement "you're going to die on such and such a date." Even if you know how, you shouldn't tell them. I think that's quite a sensible ethical position to take, really.

I won't give the website for OPAastrology's code of ethics, but it's easily found by Google search or other online search tools.

At one point, I did have a client in their mid-70s ask me to do a death-date calculation. I cited OPA's code of ethics, and I said, "instead of doing a death-date calculation, let me identify some high-risk periods in your life over the next few years when you might want to take greater precautions than usual with illness, falls, and so on." And — based on their concerns — I identified two months when fevers would be particularly risky; a few stretches of time when falls might be problematic; a window about two years long when they should be paying attention to their driving habits and make a decision about keeping or giving up their car; another window of a couple of years when it might be advisable to move to some kind of assisted living; and a few other situations.

Never did I say, "this terrible thing is going to happen to you."

It was far more like being an insurance adjuster or actuary, going through the risk factors and using an astrology chart to figure out the timing of when these risks might be greater or lesser.

I also pointed out that they had several favorable windows over the same time-period we considered together: new love after being widowed; some foreign travel opportunities; the likelihood of new grandchildren. And I think that's one of the things that astrologers CAN do, to avoid being deterministic, is to present possibilities to be guarded against, as well as possibilities to be acted upon and encouraged.

To this day, the client is still doing well.