Why does the Goetic spirit not manifest itself physically?

[blacksmith]

When I try to evoke a spirit of the Goetia he manifests himself mentally, I ask for signs and they are answered, but why when I order him to manifest physically he doesn't obey my order?

 

[William66]

It takes alot for them to manifest physically. They can manifest by feeling, sounds, appearence maybe you see rain or thunder. But if the signs are answered then no need to see the spirit. Focus on your results, not physcally manifestation.

 

[stalkinghyena]

Sometimes they can show up as animals and even use people as avatars, I have found. Each spirit has its unique "signature".

 

[The God-King]

Physical manifestation is virtually impossible. Those who have claimed it are doubtful, IMO. Many years ago I attempted the method Koetting outlines in Evoking Eternity and did not achieve measurable success. It's best to stick with the visible appearance in your scrying device (or whatever other method you deem worthy of your personal practice).

 

[ryen]

Like God-King said, its not at all very likely. The amount of energy it takes for any spirit to physically manifest is ridiculous, regardless of their presumed strength. I feel that spirits can sense when we’re wanting a show vs actual help and become less likely to do anything for us.

Honestly, I wouldn’t try to use that as a gauge for success. If you get the results you’re wanting, and if they communicate with you via other means, give yourself a pat on the back. I think that’s all that really matters. And it’s good exercise for your mediumship. Having a spirit manifest physically doesn’t add to anything.

 

[Viktor]

When I try to evoke a spirit of the Goetia he manifests himself mentally, I ask for signs and they are answered, but why when I order him to manifest physically he doesn't obey my order?

Spiritual beings need to be distinguished from physical beings, in a sense that spiritual is the opposite of physical.
Spiritual beings manifest them self in spiritual world which we can feel but not see.

A way for spirit to show physical manifestation is to possess a physical body, but the opposite, where physical being controls spiritual being is not possible to command physical manifestation beyond fulfilling commands and feeling an effect, feeling but not seeing.

 

[Mider2009]

When I try to evoke a spirit of the Goetia he manifests himself mentally, I ask for signs and they are answered, but why when I order him to manifest physically he doesn't obey my order?

Because this is the physical realm, they exist in the spiritual

they can’t just summon a flesh and blood body I suppose, though in the literature some spirits have done that like angels.

can they do it? Idk...in my readings some spirits can but most often they speak through us

 

[ryen]

Spiritual beings need to be distinguished from physical beings, in a sense that spiritual is the opposite of physical.
Spiritual beings manifest them self in spiritual world which we can feel but not see.

A way for spirit to show physical manifestation is to possess a physical body, but the opposite, where physical being controls spiritual being is not possible to command physical manifestation beyond fulfilling commands and feeling an effect, feeling but not seeing.

This is also a solid point. One way spirits can manifest is via possession. In Palo it’s called “montar/mounting”. You can evoke a spirit which then picks someone from the people there to mount themselves to. They then speak to the other people there about issues they are having or things they need to do.

But this is very dangerous. It uses a whole lot of life force from the person being mounted. And you usually come out of it with no recollection so it’s pointless doing it alone, and even more dangerous because there’s no one to snap you out of the trance. In my branch we are taught to avoid this at all costs unless we have the upmost confidence in the spirit we allow to mount us. And even then the preferred method of manifestation is through psychic methods. Thoughts, ideas, sensations, smells, sounds, feelings.

 

[Viktor]

This is also a solid point. One way spirits can manifest is via possession. In Palo it’s called “montar/mounting”. You can evoke a spirit which then picks someone from the people there to mount themselves to. They then speak to the other people there about issues they are having or things they need to do.

But this is very dangerous. It uses a whole lot of life force from the person being mounted. And you usually come out of it with no recollection so it’s pointless doing it alone, and even more dangerous because there’s no one to snap you out of the trance. In my branch we are taught to avoid this at all costs unless we have the upmost confidence in the spirit we allow to mount us. And even then the preferred method of manifestation is through psychic methods. Thoughts, ideas, sensations, smells, sounds, feelings.

My understanding is that one has to willingly accept a spirit in order for spirit to take control over his body.

The only exception to this to my knowledge is when one is preoccupied with a certain spirit or spiritual world, in which case his mind becomes preoccupied by some spirit or spiritual world, which creates an avenue for the spirit to take control.

However I don't think someone can command a spirit to take over somebody just like that.

 

[ryen]

My understanding is that one has to willingly accept a spirit in order for spirit to take control over his body.

The only exception to this to my knowledge is when one is preoccupied with a certain spirit or spiritual world, in which case his mind becomes preoccupied by some spirit or spiritual world, which creates an avenue for the spirit to take control.

However I don't think someone can command a spirit to take over somebody just like that.

Yeah it’s my understanding too. Normally, the people at the kind of gatherings I’m talking about know they might be mounted by a spirit. You see this a lot with ATRs. But in my practice, how accepted that is varies from house to house.

 

[Erosphore]

Physical manifestation is virtually impossible. Those who have claimed it are doubtful, IMO. Many years ago I attempted the method Koetting outlines in Evoking Eternity and did not achieve measurable success. It's best to stick with the visible appearance in your scrying device (or whatever other method you deem worthy of your personal practice).

The only spirit who managed to manifest something physically for me was Beelzebub. I saw some kind of Silver Fox running past me in the hallway right after meditating on his sigil. I'm still speechless about that. However, this never happened again. I think the easiest way to see a spirit is through self-induced sleep paralysis. This is how I saw Lucifer.

 

[thehornedone]

First off, I think it is a tad arrogant to say that its impossible. We need to remember our place as not nearly as powerful than They are and doubt could only narrow the range of your experiences with Them. I have never seen physical manifestation but I believe it is possible. S. Connoly claims to have seen a demon in the flesh (cant remember who or in which book) and it scared the shit out of her and she seems to be about as high up the hierarchy of witches as one could be (unless at some point the spirits show you some shit and make you vow secrecy about it). So, it is also possible that they don't manifest physically out of respect for you and your sanity. As others have said, its not entirely necessary, it would be a big deal for Them, and you probably couldn't handle it anyway. Good advice for beginner's invocation/ evocation is to not get carried away by the bells and whistles of magic, but the results instead. If you really want glitter thrown in your face, you might lose Their respect.

 

[Evan]

It takes alot for them to manifest physically. They can manifest by feeling, sounds, appearence maybe you see rain or thunder. But if the signs are answered then no need to see the spirit. Focus on your results, not physcally manifestation.

When you say you see rain and thunder you mean that you actually change the weather when working or just hallucinations? Have you ever experienced a change in the weather?

 

[William66]

When you say you see rain and thunder you mean that you actually change the weather when working or just hallucinations? Have you ever experienced a change in the weather?

No, you see rain outside the circle, thunders and such, i myself have not had these signs, i got others.
Adley has an interview which he has experienced and talked about it there, if you want the link i can post it here.

Have you ever experienced a change in the weather?

No not outside, inside my room gets abit cold.

 

[Al-Zalaam]

When I try to evoke a spirit of the Goetia he manifests himself mentally, I ask for signs and they are answered, but why when I order him to manifest physically he doesn't obey my order?

Because you are likely not in a position to "order" a goetic spirit to do such things.
The majority of practitioners who manage to get in touch with such beings are doing so at the grace of the target spirit, not the other way around.

The common cultural image of evocation in most people's mind is this scene of commanding a spirit into a triangle through ceremony in this perceived position of authority - but in reality, most practitioners don't quite possess the authority they imagine, and the spirit in question is merely entertaining the call by their own whim.
Being able to cast a noticeable invitation to the spirit is one thing, but having the authority to demand manifestation and such things is a whole other story.

On the other hand, demanding a spirit to manifest itself in the first place is a very taxing request that requires preparation.
Have you properly loaded the summoning chamber with the appropriate energies for the spirit?
If not, than you are asking a spirit to waste a great expense of energy entirely on their own for your whim.
This is partly why in some serious traditions of magic, evocations are one of the -last- things a practitioner involves in.
Full evocation in the sense of manifestation requires the practitioner to be proficient in not just ceremonial magic, but also energy work.
If you are not already capable of concentrating energies to such a degree that they have physical effects, then you are also not in a position to manifest spirits physically either.

In that case, you can only politely ask them.
But whether or not a spirit will manifest physically is entirely up to their own discretion, and most will avoid it, as it is a tremendous waste of energy.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

I agree with the above. However, are you using a manifestation base such as water, smoke, fire, blood? A simple fire pit can be useful for a few things. Doing a ritual near a lake can be a positive result. I would go with the above as I am not proficient with either energy work or ceremonial magic.

 

[Parallax]

When I try to evoke a spirit of the Goetia he manifests himself mentally, I ask for signs and they are answered, but why when I order him to manifest physically he doesn't obey my order?

I was doing a ritual with a geotic spirit, I forget witch and I had a spider come out of nowhere running toward the middle of the room almost immediately post ritual. Should I count this as manifestation? It was a long time ago so I don't remember what spirit.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

Physical manifestation is virtually impossible. Those who have claimed it are doubtful, IMO. Many years ago I attempted the method Koetting outlines in Evoking Eternity and did not achieve measurable success. It's best to stick with the visible appearance in your scrying device (or whatever other method you deem worthy of your personal practice).

What about using a partner for Partial Possession? Usually the chain is starting with Contact, infestation, portion and full possession. The question is, is the partner mentally strong enough to come out of partial possession?

Post automatically merged: Feb 8, 2023

I was doing a ritual with a geotic spirit, I forget witch and I had a spider come out of nowhere running toward the middle of the room almost immediately post ritual. Should I count this as manifestation? It was a long time ago so I don't remember what spirit.

Yes. Lilith or Arachnia by any chance?

 

[league]

When I try to evoke a spirit of the Goetia he manifests himself mentally, I ask for signs and they are answered, but why when I order him to manifest physically he doesn't obey my order?

First these beings are not Physical in nature and exist in a energy based existence. Commanding them to a physical form in my opinion limits them, only humanity thinks things need to be proven in physical form.

I suggest you get a mentor like myself to help you further your studies that will unlock a lot more doors than limiting to proof in physical form. Once you unlock that door, there is a whole new world for you to explore and understand. The limits off the physical world is why humanity is limiting our growth to work together for a better tomorrow.

 

[Parallax]

What about using a partner for Partial Possession? Usually the chain is starting with Contact, infestation, portion and full possession. The question is, is the partner mentally strong enough to come out of partial possession?

Post automatically merged: Feb 8, 2023

Yes. Lilith or Arachnia by any chance?

No, It was one of the 72 that was with money. I thought it was a brown recluse and got scared so I smashed it. I think it was just a wolf spider though.
Thought I think it was a was a prize of some sort.
Due to some living situation I haven’t been able to do rituals like that as i please. Hopefully in the near future I will have time for rituals as I please in the open.