Why does the Goetic spirit not manifest itself physically?

[Angelkesfarl]

I was using a Trithemius based system to evoke a spirit from the Lemegeton.

I've been lucid dreaming on/off for most of my adult life. I've encountered many of these spirits through that platform.

"Given your deep familiarity with the Lemegeton and your use of a Trithemian framework, which specific Spirit did you succeed in Evoking?

More critically, how do we integrate your practical example—the connection between your successful Evocation and your extensive platform of Lucid Dreaming—with the profound essential nature of the texts you believe are required for genuine success?

I am keen to understand the relationship between the technique (Trithemius/Lemegeton) and the state (Lucid Dreaming) in achieving a validated outcome. Specifically, which texts do you find necessary to bridge these two modalities, and what is the outcome of your research in this regard?"
Do you find that The Art of Drawing Spirits into Crystals served as the methodological bridge, allowing you to successfully integrate the temporal (Trithemian) structure with the internal reception of your Lucid Dreaming platform?

Furthermore, out of the spirits you encountered in these experiences, which one did you feel was the most 'resonant' or 'congruent' with your own esoteric constitution and inner disposition

 

[Riva626]

"Given your deep familiarity with the Lemegeton and your use of a Trithemian framework, which specific Spirit did you succeed in Evoking?

More critically, how do we integrate your practical example—the connection between your successful Evocation and your extensive platform of Lucid Dreaming—with the profound essential nature of the texts you believe are required for genuine success?

I am keen to understand the relationship between the technique (Trithemius/Lemegeton) and the state (Lucid Dreaming) in achieving a validated outcome. Specifically, which texts do you find necessary to bridge these two modalities, and what is the outcome of your research in this regard?"
Do you find that The Art of Drawing Spirits into Crystals served as the methodological bridge, allowing you to successfully integrate the temporal (Trithemian) structure with the internal reception of your Lucid Dreaming platform?

Furthermore, out of the spirits you encountered in these experiences, which one did you feel was the most 'resonant' or 'congruent' with your own esoteric constitution and inner disposition

For personal reasons I would rather not disclose which spirit it was. I can say however that appearing as an orb of light wasn't what I expected. If I hadn't been so terrified and hasty, I should have asked it to appear in a 'fair and human shape'. I do recall reading Agrippa months later and discovering that balls of light were a common form of appearance. It also made me wonder if this explains most UFO sightings.

As far as the connection between lucid dreaming and the Trithemius system, there are none. As a young man I got fed up trying to conjure demons and not getting the visible results I wanted (except for that one time), so I taught myself lucid dreaming as a means of accessing spirits without all the necessary preparation of an evocation.

I can't say that I've had an affinity with any of the spirits I've seen in dreams, but my encounters with them are unlike anything I've experienced in life. Sometimes they even predicted the future. In a dream you need only shout the spirits name, or ask another dream character, 'where is x' and they will appear. I could write a book on these experiences, and probably will eventually.

The book I used to learn is called 'The Phase' by Michael Raduga.

 

[Angelkesfarl]

Your brilliant approach using Lucid Dreaming and Out-of-Body Experiences (O.B.E.) is truly genius; I commend you on it. This method allows you to soar between the dimensions, reaching genuine encounters with spirits or their projections in the Opposite Cosmic Space—that intermediate ground between the planes. It truly is the most suitable location for interdimensional tourism.

Could you tell us more about what exactly unfolds in that space? Specifically, when you are in this state, how does the spatial geometry differ, and do the spirits you encounter possess the full agency of their consciousness, or are they bound by the rules of the dream plane? I am keen to hear more about your explorations.

 

[Fausto]

Maybe because their humor.

AND i am back tour mother fuckers, son of bitches.

 

[asmodazanigin]

When I try to evoke a spirit of the Goetia he manifests himself mentally, I ask for signs and they are answered, but why when I order him to manifest physically he doesn't obey my order?

Think about how long and how much energy was used to manifest the body you have right now...it's a mighty tall order to just poof a physical body because you said...the influence over subtle things they shine at ...a n the procurement of information..and the influence over the perceptions and behavior of living things..so influencing your perception to give you a mental pic is easy.,.whipping up a ten foot tall amalgam of cells into there preferred shape on command in the garage ...now...it's like I showed up with a piece of paper saying it was blue prints and deed to a mine in s.sfrica....handed it to you and said I need a battleship built by 9 tonight ...that's how I see it anyway ..if you must have physical form....built an idol or squire an animal ..human or otherwise that it can indwell...or maby ...just maby ...if you gave it 24/7 blood bath and orgy, it could scramble up a golem form to use...but when you can get a goat or dog if you just want it incarnated ..and this is hypothetical I've never seen a Dog host a spirit of the goetia myself...but In theory it's infinity easyer than instant body manifestation....now if it's in the dog ...( Son of sam....sam was the doberman that told berkowitz to go kill)...and it wants to communicate it will ether have to bark morse code or use telepathy....do your back to mental influence...or you could use a " lamia naturalslis" as a.a. moraine calls them...a natural medium...to give the spirit the host that could speak ...in many languages id assume and perhaps in any language...of course if the medium retains co pilot status as in " perfect possession" there could be influence on the spirits answers...and so sometimes the spirit may be limited in its ability to convey info by the limitations of the hosts vocab if it is being intrusive and not going for complete and total displacement of the self of host....
Much simpler to appear in your mind....
That's my thought on it anyway
Why do you need it to physically manifest? I've seen it ...not from goetics but I've seen it ...with physical evidence...it's unnerving...the energy overcame my second ex wife and she we went into a sesier..foam and droll and stiff on the floor...a lot of energy! Like a mix of a roller coaster and a hit of crack...at the same time...
I could be way off and someone who has a he clairs to ask direct and detailed questions might have a better one but I think the answer is economy of energy!

 

[Jsinclair]

When I try to evoke a spirit of the Goetia he manifests himself mentally, I ask for signs and they are answered, but why when I order him to manifest physically he doesn't obey my order?

To put it simply and bluntly : you need blood.

Now, how this works itself out on a Practical level...there have been plenty of book shares on this forum alluding to or openly disclosing the method(s).

Now, from a purely speculative viewpoint, one could start small, keep a record, and work one's way up to whatever degree of manifestation one desires via responsible trial-and-error. One could, hypothetically, employ one's own blood in creating the sigils. Or one's own blood mixed with semen. Or menstrual blood alone or in similar combination.

And then get creative.

Hypothetically.

 

[a female Faust]

When I try to evoke a spirit of the Goetia he manifests himself mentally, I ask for signs and they are answered, but why when I order him to manifest physically he doesn't obey my order?

(hello all, i am new here, so here goes, my first reply.)

some thoughts

i think the question is, what is 'physical' actually. as we as a species have focused more and more upon reductionist 'objective' measurement of phenomena, it seems the 'physicality' of the spirit world has receded, but i think in 'actuality' (that's the 'actuality' of the matter of this philosophical inquiry, not some objective reality, about the existence of which i will represent myself as being agnostic) --- ahem i think in actuality it isn't the world that has changed, but our perception of it. (sometimes i get the impression that science is coming around to this point of view as well, particularly physics).

i once had the Four Princes of the Underworld in my temple (full standing Enochian Temple, in Golden Dawn colors but otherwise styled after Dee) for about a minute or two, which seemed at the time like a very long time. up until then in my adult life i had almost exclusively done Angelic work (with the exception of conjuring the Devil once when I was just starting out); no formal Goetics. my scryer did Goetics and one day said he really wanted me to meet the Four Princes, so I could get some idea of their nature. i consented. when he called them, i, and the people in the livingroom which shared a wall and closed door with the temple felt and heard a strong wind coming into the room from that direction. there were no windows in two of these directions, and the windows in the other walls were firmly shut.

i remember feeling absolutely breathtaken by the elegance, the beauty, the refinement, the poise, the nobility ---of dress and of manner, the feelings one gets from being in someone's presence, that one almost always only can get by meeting them -- as if i was struck temporarily wordless by the sight of them -- but i didn't see them. they were not visibly present, but they were most certainly there.

if our machines tell us to, we often see or think we see things that are not there. this is also relevant to the discussion, though a different angle than those above.

 

[Lordvoldemort666]

Because you are not powerful enough my child. The lord himself made an account just to answer you after this I might just start helping others as I just discovered the use of a computer machine.