Working with Jesus as a spirit/Deity

[qwzxas]

I think the problem here is being a Christian requires you to believe that Jesus was a real person (which he clearly wasn't). So working with Jesus would be doing ancestor work which wouldn't work with someone who never existed. So as a non Christian you would be working with the egregore of Jesus which I can't think of something that has accumulated more bloodshed and negative energy.

 

[Beyond Everything]

I think the problem here is being a Christian requires you to believe that Jesus was a real person (which he clearly wasn't). So working with Jesus would be doing ancestor work which wouldn't work with someone who never existed. So as a non Christian you would be working with the egregore of Jesus which I can't think of something that has accumulated more bloodshed and negative energy.

christianity has spent almost 2000 years suppressing real esotericism with the sword. People here literally calling for a return to catholic energies and practices, when you would get burned alive by catholics over many centuries for not towing official lines.

More to the point, these christian egregores will and do influence anyone who works with them and waylay them from the real path to the ultimate (immortality), whatever that person might believe. You can even get a sense of this if you're attuned enough in the very reactions of such influenced people when they are apprised of these facts.

(Or just read the Parable of the Unworthy Servant, it's pretty explicit what it's all about. Not individual human apotheosis and freedom, but slavery)

 

[Jade]

I like they way you're thinking, Jade.

To fend off the risk of going way off topic, may I suggest we move these importation explorations to this thread:

Gabbing about Traditions and Inclusive, Ecumenical Occultism

Making a thread to continue an enjoyable conversation from here: https://wizardforums.com/threads/does-aurum-solis-belong-to-the-golden-dawn-what-is-the-relationship-between-its-magical-system-and-greek-polytheism.20018/

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Sure

 

[FraterBombastus72]

Has anyone worked with jesus outside of the christian context as they would a Goddess like Hekate for example, where you can invoke or even evoke Jesus and work with him. I've heard of people working with mother mary in the occult world but not jesus. I don't mean praying like a christian but calling on him as you would any other spirit. I was watching a YT video and someone mentioned they worked with him in their spells and this sparked my curiosity

This is from my understanding and experience: It's less like calling upon a deity and more alike a Godname, the way one would use IAO or IHVH in a ritual.
Jesus rendered in a magical way is Y H S V H
Which is the Tetragrammaton + Spiritual Fire.

 

[hollowglasd]

I’m a Roman Catholic and believe Jesus was a real person and the messiah .
In my magick which is mainly tarot and energy work. I work with Jesus in that prior to a reading I ask him for protection and guidance I also ask him for protection before energy work

 

[Mannimarco]

Has anyone worked with jesus outside of the christian context as they would a Goddess like Hekate for example, where you can invoke or even evoke Jesus and work with him. I've heard of people working with mother mary in the occult world but not jesus. I don't mean praying like a christian but calling on him as you would any other spirit. I was watching a YT video and someone mentioned they worked with him in their spells and this sparked my curiosity

I'm manly curious if any occultist work with him as a deity/spirit as they might do with hekate or something. I'm also curious if some have ever evoked him or even did a pathworking or spells with his blessing. I know many occultist work with the saints and mother mary but don't really hear much of jesus

I can't say that I have, though it's done semi commonly. I walked with jebus every day for a couple decades, and I've seen enough of him for ten thousand lifetimes.

Anyway, if a person has a high degree of resonance with him, they would have a pretty good chance of building a working relationship with him, whatever their beliefs about him were. As with any spirit. I have almost no resonance with him, which, I imagine, is why my time in christianity was so counter productive. Even through a Chaos Magick perspective, jebus is pretty hard coded as a saviour and healer, so there is that to consider.

With human/spirit relationships, Resonance trumps all.

 

[MorganBlack]

On the mystical side, I'm an immersive Pantheist and was not raised particularly religious.

In my work with the Catholic Trinity they function as stepdown energy transformer to temper and channel the burning stellar energy of "The Father" manifested through the PGM's Headless Rite.

But I often forget the trauma some people have around Christianity My girlfriend was raised Southern Baptist in Dallas, and the scars run deep. I don't know if this book will help or just open old wound for folks.

Book – PDF - 'From Paul to Mark - PaleoChristianity' by Laura Knight-Jadczyk (2021)

“Quite a delight, well written, well researched.” ––Russell Gmirkin, author of Plato and the Creation of the Hebrew Bible and Berossus and Genesis, Manetho and Exodus Nearly two thousand years ago the seeds of a new religion were sown in the eastern fringes of the Roman empire. An apostle...

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This is the book that untangled a lot of the historical knots for me. It went a long way helping my overly intellectual left hemisphere align with the Mystical Christ. Better myths can erase bad myths.

Paul's original vision is BIG enough to hold many interpretations, so I am also not trying to erase anyone's take here. Half my family are Cradle Caths and I would never come AT them "explaining" Christ to them. That is not helpful, nor the point of any of this, in my view.

The mythologist Martin Shaw rather astutely suggested that Jesus Christ is the 'Last Greek God.' Knight-Jadczyk’s book gives us an exhaustive account of how the exceedingly sublime vision of a dying-and-rising Greek deity was removed from his cosmic mythos, and then trapped within a literalized, first-century political narrative by the authors of the Gospel of Mark.

The original, pre-Gospel "current" (represented by Paul's actual letters) was fundamentally different from the literalist, historicized religion that the Roman Empire eventually used to hold the Empire together (and turn pagan slavery into Christian feudalism) .

Paul really wasn't trying to build a new bureaucratic religion based on a wandering carpenter (and maybe magician) from Galilee. He writing inside a deeply Hellenized, Neoplatonic, and mystical framework for a Hellenic audience.

So this book can help us see "Christos" isn't a historical man (well he is, so not trying to erase more mainstream Catholic or Protestant views here). He's cosmic principle - the Logos or a solar daimon. The crucifixion and resurrection aren't historical events that took place on hill outside Jerusalem. They were, are, and are always , eternal, celestial mythic dramas happening which the initiate accesses through visionary experiences.

 

[Beyond Everything]

He's cosmic principle - the Logos or a solar daimon. The crucifixion and resurrection aren't historical events that took place on hill outside Jerusalem. They were, are, and are always , eternal, celestial mythic dramas happening which the initiate accesses through visionary experiences.

Transcendental aspects and principles of existence are not personified. What these religious so-called 'mediators' actually consist of is collectivist psychic energies.

As an example, I see no evidence whatsoever with esoteric groups that work with more 'gnostic' conceptions of jesus that they are actually initiating themselves into higher forms of existence. What they are doing is engaging with coercive energies.

Encounters with truly transcendental energies have certain characteristics, one of which is a lack of any coercion and the increase of personal power, freedom, and transformation not only of subtle bodies but the physical body. One doesn't need to 'run back' to them, one doesn't have emotional charges with them (ie, not crying in a masochistic exercise of reliving the story of jesus' alleged punishment by roman authorities).

The track record of all these religious energies is pretty abysmal on an everyday level as well. And endless excuse-making and parsing is needed to fit them in any general schema of personal empowerment. Whereas jettisoning all of it and accessing the unmythical, unknown parts of the self is the key to the highest real occult initiations.

 

[MorganBlack]

Transcendental aspects and principles of existence are not personified. What these religious so-called 'mediators' actually consist of is collectivist psychic energies.

No doubt. I tend to agree with you.

Pardon my Simulation Theory metaphor. At that level, there are no names, no gods, spirits lwa, daimons, egregores, apparitions, ghosts, shade, fae, pooka, goblins, or other bugaboos at the "code" noetic-mind level of reality. Those colorful weird paranormal forms only exist "down here" at the Sublunar level (using the classic planetary metaphor again) for us to interact with as a GUI at the hardware API level (flipping metaphors again) . (But I am also more than happy to include other minds that do not have human bodies here.)

Also agreed. The pure cosmic patterns have to get localized, and they are often localized in terrible local manifestations. How to fix that for everyone? Fuck if I know. Modulating mythic literalism with better and bigger models helps some.