Your opinions on the reductionist movements?

[Vandheer]

With the surge of Gallery of Magick/Power of Magick and such similar groups, we can see that many long and detailed rituals are getting condensed, simplified, and ready to go.

I have seen many conflicting opinions about it. Some claim these methods absolutely work, some claim its not real magick or that its very dangerous.

Aside from thinking its good to challenge the old norms, I don't have a dog in this fight but tell me where you chained yours on the matter.

Dangerous? Risking people for a quick cash? Doing world a service? Next stage in ritual magick?

 

[Pyrokar]

well, like language magick should evolve
but c'mon Gallery of magick won't be that guy

but otherwise heck yea, condense and filter for personal needs all day
it's not the kali yuga and golden age of chaos for nothing

 

[Yazata]

Well, I write my own simplified books so I can hardly criticize anyone else for doing so. But I do believe it is always better to first learn the older stuff so you have an idea of what you are doing. Though if you do that you probably won't throw your money at a modern book anymore but write your own as well.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

One qualm I have (as well as with the Utah Lodge Shemhamphoresh paper) with GoM books are the errors, and poor use of Hebrew.

Another qualm I have with GoM is making things too simple. I mean, cmon with 72 Angels of Magick compares to Ambelains translation of Le Kabbalah Practique.

You need a small fortune to establish a ceremonial working, no wonder many were in the employ of Kings, Queens, nobles, or "other" sources of money.
Same with alchemists for that matter, especially during their time.

Another and perhaps last qualm is what if everything goe south during a workiing, pissing off the demon or angel in question.

 

[theil]

With the surge of Gallery of Magick/Power of Magick and such similar groups, we can see that many long and detailed rituals are getting condensed, simplified, and ready to go.

I have seen many conflicting opinions about it. Some claim these methods absolutely work, some claim its not real magick or that its very dangerous.

Aside from thinking its good to challenge the old norms, I don't have a dog in this fight but tell me where you chained yours on the matter.

Dangerous? Risking people for a quick cash? Doing world a service? Next stage in ritual magick?

For myself it depends on the person's TRUE model of magical reality. Is it enough for them that Hebrew script and some magical-looking geometric art linked with history or the author's authority will achieve results? Probably yeah but for others it won't be without more effort for results.

 

[Lazarus]

Simplified/streamlined stuff absolutely works in my opinion. Hell, all Dumbo needed was a feather and from that he learned how to fly. To a degree these are all props that just enable you to connect to something.

You can be a proficient magician with the condensed stuff. But, I believe someone who truly wants to be scholar, and study magic at the “PHD” level to understand how and why it all works, is going to dig beyond the streamlined.

….and they will be better for it.

 

[HoldAll]

My main beef with the GoM is their dispensation with preparatory work. In fact, Damon Brand says somewhere that the traditional emphasis on the need for meditation, breathwork, visualisation, etc. probably turned away more people from magic than anything else; he may be even right but then continued failure with their beginner-friendly methods doesn't keep people interested in magic either.

I must confess that I was hopelessly smitten with the GoM when I first discovered their books because they seemed like so many magazines filled with magic bullets to me. Maybe one day I'll even get them to work but until then I have many hours of preparatory practice and study to do.

 

[Roma]

traditional emphasis on the need for meditation, breathwork, visualisation

My own view is that right relationship is central to positive interactions with inner plane entities.

That is based on right relationship within the human system.

A few doors along the husband had one of the trendy "turbo cancers" - only lasted a week of treatment. His widow said to me that he did not love himself.

In my view, loving oneself is the basis for all spiritual/magical work. Without that I suspect the operator is wide open to being manipulated.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

In my view, loving oneself is the basis for all spiritual/magical work. Without that I suspect the operator is wide open to being manipulated.

I agree. If you haven't come to proper terms with yourself, how can you be expected to come to terms with the rest of reality?
Even RuPaul says this

 

[Xenophon]

I suppose it's one way to understand something. "What would happen if I took this part out?..." Eventually one winds up with a streamlined system (and perhaps a few casualties.)

 

[pixel_fortune]

They're not to my taste (I LIKE complex ritual and studying theory) but I have no problem with them being to other people's taste.

But every art and craft has its simplified version. You know, there's paint-by-numbers or those pictures where you drop crystal beads into the canvas or something. They're not to my taste, I wouldn't put one up on my wall, and I think the practitioner would probably lose lose out on the skill-building they would get from learning to paint properly. But I wouldn't rail against them; people doing crystal dot paint by numbers don't affect me and the art I make/enjoy, so leave them to it.

The other thing is that it's probably a gateway for a lot of people. Just because it's the first thing they try doesn't mean they'll stop there, and we all start somewhere. So I wouldn't belittle someone for that being their entry point

 

[Ancient]

Seems like just another sign of the times to me. Look at what we've learned to do with chemicals: identify, isolate, extract and purify to use for efficient, specific results. Look at what we did with photography: digitized the darkroom process and stuck it in everyone's pocket. Then we trained as a species how to use these in a basic way. From smartphone cameras to antibiotics the spread of condensed, simplified knowledge has been a boon to our species. Not only does it turn out useful on a regular basis, it gets the information out widespread to catch the attention of those individuals with the passion and skill to specialize in it, thereby accelerating the process of improvement.

The occult is a bit of an oddity in relation to many other concepts, though. It's highly unregulated. Without a governing body, widely accepted and understood basic tenets, or some other rational basis by which novices can judge information it becomes an easy market to flood with trash, and more than a little of this has occurred.