On "crossing the abyss"

[juanitos]

"crossing the abyss"- is the same like having "the Dark Night of the Soul" a metaphor used by St John of the Cross..?

there is a also a metaphor used by Carlos Castaneda: " the dark sea of awarenss".. I have experienced that when I had a NDE... words are absolutely useless to describe that.

well you know..the experience itself is beyond words...personal experiences and emotions can not be conveyed through words.. The finger pointing to the Moon is is Not the Moon!

 

[Morell]

I might be wrong here, specially since my opinion on the topic doesn't exactly align with the popular kids. I believe that the idea of crossing the abbys has that name exactly because it represents failure manifested. There's no crossing the abbys, there's only falling into it, your ego "dies" because once you start searching knowledge, eventually and inevitably you'll realise that nothing makes sense, and nothing means anything. There's no transcendental truth and the metaphysics of it all it's simply far too great for your head.

So to sum it up, everyone on the path is eternally crossing the abbys, from time to time we end up stumbling on something we shouldn't and that provokes agony. After the suffering, life goes on, you "crossed" the problem, but you can't help but noticed that every time it happens reality seems a little more out of place.

I think that you are describing something else than the experience debated here. Although this also sounds as very valid experience that can occur.

 

[Ludwig46692]

You're early in the Work, most of it is probably incomprehensible to you. You can't see any type of finish-line, and so you claim there isn't one just so you can feel like you're at it already. Justifying your own ignorance by saying "there is nothing that can be known to us mere humans!" is pure cope. You change the written definition of it to something mundane and typical that everyone does, you can even do it in your office cubicle, because who hasn't "crossing a problem" in life? That way you can claim to have done it, several times in fact!

This type of mundane perspective is dangerous, it nullifies mystery, it cancels out any desire to explore or grow because it assumes there's nothing comprehensible or even attainable out there, that everything that can be known is known. Most egregious of all is that it turns something momentously difficult to reach and dangerous to accomplish into something everyone is doing eternally without even knowing it.

Might be, but funnily enough, everyone that claims to have crossed the abbys end up doing exactly what you would expect from someone who didn't. So really, I don't believe it's that big of a deal

 

[Morell]

Might be, but funnily enough, everyone that claims to have crossed the abbys end up doing exactly what you would expect from someone who didn't. So really, I don't believe it's that big of a deal

How would you discern between those two states?

 

[IllusiveOwl]

Might be, but funnily enough, everyone that claims to have crossed the abbys end up doing exactly what you would expect from someone who didn't. So really, I don't believe it's that big of a deal

You claim you can accurately label those who accomplished a feat you know nothing about? I smell ignorance and childishness.

Cope however helps you sleep, though.

 

[Ludwig46692]

How would you discern between those two states?

Is not that hard, we are talking about a subjective and complex rite of passage that among other things kills your ego.

Ironically everyone that claims to succeed is basically the incarnation of a popstar, full of themselves and incapable of having an normal argument without calling the other part childish, see what I meant?

We end with 3 options:

1- The process is not that deep and don't kill shit, you pass through it and that's it

2- 90% of the population that claimed to succeed are lying.

3- The process itself is a lie

I personally am inclined to believe options 2 or 3

 

[Morell]

Is not that hard, we are talking about a subjective and complex rite of passage that among other things kills your ego.

Ironically everyone that claims to succeed is basically the incarnation of a popstar, full of themselves and incapable of having an normal argument without calling the other part childish, see what I meant?

We end with 3 options:

1- The process is not that deep and don't kill shit, you pass through it and that's it

2- 90% of the population that claimed to succeed are lying.

3- The process itself is a lie

I personally am inclined to believe options 2 or 3

Usually people who speak about work, don't do the work. So the 2 is probably correct. Also if they don't do much of work and they do the work, then 1 is true about them.

About the option n. 3. well, I don't know.

 

[Beyond Everything]

Crowley said he crossed the abyss in 1909. Regardie was his secretary roughly 2 decades after that. What he left out of his bio of Crowley was his propensity to have histrionic fits (telling his close associate Miller/Hyatt). So, there's the value of this great mystical attainment- you still have histrionic fits. lol

Crowley didn't know shit. He had no idea about how to transmute into a higher immortal subtle body. But clueless people keep fellating him. Sorry to be so blunt, but if you want to get anywhere you need to put on your thinking cap.

 

[juanitos]

Crowley said he crossed the abyss in 1909. Regardie was his secretary roughly 2 decades after that. What he left out of his bio of Crowley was his propensity to have histrionic fits (telling his close associate Miller/Hyatt). So, there's the value of this great mystical attainment- you still have histrionic fits. lol

Crowley didn't know shit. He had no idea about how to transmute into a higher immortal subtle body. But clueless people keep fellating him. Sorry to be so blunt, but if you want to get anywhere you need to put on your thinking cap.

"how to transmute into a higher immortal subtle body" that's exactly the goal in taoist alchemy... !! by the way, Mantak Chia and also Michael Winn are teaching these methods.