[Help] I'm a White/Christian Magic Newbie

[fraterosiris]

I converted to Orthodoxy through the Greek Church as a teen and left to pursue what, at that time, seemed to me stronger magic (I have an old account on here which covers much of that). By this I mean, something that corresponded more closely with what I had been socialised into thinking magic looked like. There were upsides to this but, in hindsight, I would say the best question for me to have asked myself, and the best for others to ask themselves too, is: What exactly do you want and why? When we look for answers to those questions we have to practice a great deal of brutal honesty and a great deal of matter-of-fact acceptance. I've found that people generally fall into three categories when it comes to magic. I make no judgement here that one is better than the other, they're simply different and come from different places.

The first and largest group are those who essentially turn to magic to try and gain worldly power in ways that they either cannot obtain conventionally or which they think will take too long. For these people I would say magic is a blind alley. They would be far better off going the conventional route: taking a course and getting a responsible job (society will give power to those it sees as responsible) is a much faster path to power than mulling over some ponderous tones of forbidden lore.

The second group are probably more content with their lot in life but they want a sense of mystery. This can be strong drive in those who have a, perhaps unspoken, awareness of the reality of life on this planet. Sometimes it's a distraction from that reality, but even that desire for something else indicates the person is searching for higher realities. If you want a sense of mystery that's compatible with Orthodoxy, I would say to look into Rosicrucianism and Martinism. Both are esoteric, both are quite gentle and both have enough of substance in them as to be useful.

The last and smallest category are those who have a deep, fundamental initiatory need. For these people, there might be a system which they use to put their head in the right space but, ultimately, it's an internal alignment that has to happen here and that gets into qualities which are beyond language.

The better able you are to assess where your interest is coming from, the better you'll be able to meet your needs.

I would respectfully disagree that magic is a "blind alley" for those seeking worldly gain. Jesus said, Seek first the kingdom of God. High magic (theurgy) can be used to align oneself with the divine, which would definitely be beneficial according to Christian theology. Low magic (thaumaturgy, practical magic) could be thought of as one channeling the power of the divine in the world for the benefit of oneself and others. To avoid the problem of "mulling over some ponderous tomes," just make sure to spend enough time in the very world you're trying to change with your magic! That would be like learning to brew beer and then never drinking any.

Post automatically merged: Jan 31, 2025

I am of Catholic background and practice ceremonial magic. First, some basic terms:
High magic: Magic whose purpose is to increase one's level of alignment with the divine (in Orthodox theology, theosis; in other branches of Christianity, sanctification). Also called theurgy.
Low magic: Magic whose purpose is to cause material effects. This is what most people think of when they think of magic. Also called practical magic or thaumaturgy.

The best system of magic that I can think of for a Christian is the Golden Dawn system, which is what I use. Israel Regardie's Golden Dawn grimoire is a bit of a heavy read, so I would recommend starting with Damien Echols's grimoires High Magick and Angels and Archangels. These two books by Echols are essentially a simplified version of Golden Dawn magic.

You will find, I think, that angelic magic is right up your alley (it's right up my alley). Angels and Archangels by Damien Echols is a great grimoire of angelic magic. Another good one is the book "The 72 Angels of Magic" from the Gallery of Magick series, by Damon Brand. I have actually had some amazing results from that book; one of the angels I invoked healed a heel spur that was driving me nuts for months.

Two good youtubers I would always recommend are Foolish Fish and Lifting the Lamp. Foolish Fish has a series of "Esoteric Saturdays" videos that do a really good job explaining basic concepts in magic.

I also recommend using a Wand in your magical practice. It is useful because it adds a tactile dimension to your practice and the simple act of picking it up and holding it can help put your mind in the right place.

As for being a part of the church and practicing magic, I would recommend not talking about magic with anyone in the church; this isn't because magic is bad or because other Christians are bad, but rather because they are probably not initiated (i.e. familiar with the occult). I believe it was Eliphas Levi (who was a seminarian) who said that it is in fact irresponsible to reveal secrets to those not prepared for them.

 

[frsfmcs]

Check The Hidden Teachings of Christian Mysticism by Jerry Alan Johnson.

 

[Amur]

Rose Cross Ritual, LBRP , LBRH and SBRP is already a long way. And yes the elements of the pentagram are vital to be placed with YHShVH so that it makes sense.

 

[fraterosiris]

Rose Cross Ritual, LBRP , LBRH and SBRP is already a long way. And yes the elements of the pentagram are vital to be placed with YHShVH so that it makes sense.

These are all from the Golden Dawn.
LBRP = Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram
LBRH = Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Hexagram
SBRP = Supreme Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram
There are also Invoking versions of these rituals
Pentagram = 5-pointed star, works with the Elements
Hexagram = 6-pointed star, works with the Planets

This is Israel Regardie's Golden Dawn which describes all these rituals.

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[Amur]

These are all from the Golden Dawn.
LBRP = Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram
LBRH = Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Hexagram
SBRP = Supreme Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram
There are also Invoking versions of these rituals
Pentagram = 5-pointed star, works with the Elements
Hexagram = 6-pointed star, works with the Planets

This is Israel Regardie's Golden Dawn which describes all these rituals.

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Yeah should have linked that book here. But for some reason did not. But all good rituals and ceremonies if you take them seriously. Also the elemental equilibrium gives a better mindscape for mind and consciousness once passed.

 

[Redtip]

If you're still seeking, you will find everything you want to learn about true Christian Mysticism in the books and videos of Stylianos Atteshlis aka Daskalos.

 

[DairyFarmScreech]

Many classic and modern Russian works explore Christian themes and mysticism, reflecting the deep influence of the Russian Orthodox Church on the national consciousness and culture.
Prominent works and authors include:

Classic Literature

• The Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor Dostoevsky: This novel is perhaps the most famous exploration of faith, doubt, morality, and the existence of God in Russian literature. Dostoevsky's works are saturated with Christian themes and religious mysticism, particularly the idea of spiritual enlightenment through suffering.
• The Idiot and Demons by Fyodor Dostoevsky: These works also engage deeply with religious and philosophical themes, with characters often grappling with Christian ideals and the spiritual condition of Russia.
• War and Peace and Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy: While Tolstoy's later religious views became controversial, his major novels contain profound reflections on Christianity, morality, and the search for meaning. His later essays, such as The Kingdom of God Is Within You, are explicit works on his Christian beliefs and pacifism.
• Dead Souls by Nikolai Gogol: This work incorporates popular mysticism and is a philosophical reflection on the "Russian soul". Gogol is also known for his earlier short story collections, such as Evenings on a Farm Near Dikanka and Viy, which blend Christian settings with Ukrainian folklore, witches, and devils.
• The Life of the Archpriest Avvakum by Avvakum: This 17th-century autobiography by a leader of the Old Believers religious dissidents is a masterpiece of early Russian literature and provides a raw, first-hand account of deep religious conviction and the schism within the Russian church.

Modern & Philosophical Works

• The Master and Margarita by Mikhail Bulgakov: This acclaimed novel, banned for decades in the Soviet Union, is a satirical and mystical work that interweaves two parallel storylines: the Devil's visit to Moscow and the trial of Jesus Christ by Pontius Pilate.
• The Rose of the World by Daniil Andreev: Written in the mid-20th century, this spiritual and mystical treatise is considered a major work of Russian spirituality and presents a universalist, visionary worldview drawing on Christian and mystical ideas.
• The Justification of the Good by Vladimir Solovyov: A significant work of Russian philosophy that presents a moral argument based on Christian ethics and explores the world's longing for God's goodness. Solovyov was an influential Christian thinker.
• Laurus by Eugene Vodolazkin: A contemporary novel that won major Russian literary prizes and has been included in lists of top novels about God. It tells the story of a medieval Russian healer and holy man, deeply steeped in Orthodox Christian spirituality.

 

[AlfrunGrima]

Hi, I'm an Orthodox Catechumen. I got into orthodoxy hoping to learn more about the mystical side of Christianity, since it overlaps with white magic. (At least, that's my understanding.)

I've tried asking my priest about that sort of thing, but he just tells me to say my prayers.

How/where can I learn more about white magic?

For books, all I have found so far are "The White Magic Book" and "The White Magic Encyclopedia." (I did read them.)

I guess what I'm asking is, where should I start looking?

Thanks.

Thought very out of the box, but do a Catholic Mass by yourself and BE the priest. Do it for yourself, do it at home. Then you are heading over to the magical realm. This is intens, but then you are exact in the middle of the mysticism and magic.

 

[Amadeus]

Catholic Mass

Yes A great idea, to read the mass and why not also the entire Orthodox liturgies. Many of the churches also sell divine liturgy books. Includes everything, descriptions. What goes on in great detail. The effects are quite good, I sometimes work with the Orthodox liturgy texts.

 

[KjEno186]

Book – PDF - Brother Ada, Agostino Taumaturgo - Ritual Magic for Conservative Christians

Seems a contradiction in terms to me; I confess that I'm mostly posting this book for the lulz but who knows, maybe there's something useful in it. Christians have practiced magic since the dawn of Christianity, and almost all classic magical texts since the Middle Ages have Christian...

wizardforums.com

I doubt this share still works, but you can probably find it from other sources online. I did download it at the time but never attempted to read beyond the first chapter. Perusing its contents, it seems to be an easy to follow guide including scriptural references, meditations, prayers, and rituals.

 

[therootbeersprite]

the Hebrew version of the name Jesus

Hello! The majority of my family is Jewish. There is no legitimate Hebrew of the name Jesus as Jews don't believe in Jesus. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't actually understand real Hebrew, and is appropriating it to borrow legitimacy. Don't do it, please

Post automatically merged: Saturday at 5:40 PM

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned angelic seals and numbers. It's not an area that I know much about, but my understanding is that they are strongly rooted in Orthodoxy.

 

[Johny111]

Hello! The majority of my family is Jewish. There is no legitimate Hebrew of the name Jesus as Jews don't believe in Jesus. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't actually understand real Hebrew, and is appropriating it to borrow legitimacy. Don't do it, please

Post automatically merged: Saturday at 5:40 PM

Why do you read superficially and react to something that hasn’t even been said? I only pointed out the possibility of one version of the name 'Jesus' in Hebrew. What does that have to do with the fact that Jews do not believe in Jesus? Instead of philosophizing in vain, it would be better if you wrote how the name Jesus would be written in Hebrew letters. Just because Jews do not believe in something doesn’t mean that concept cannot be written in Hebrew script. For years I have been engaged in speculating about writing and marking various phenomena in Hebrew script, and now you are asking me to stop, because...?

 

[pruner_tipster]

Rabbi Gitakilla answers your question in his book Sha'arie Ohr, Gates of Light. It begins:

​

You have asked of me, my brother and friend of my soul, to illuminate a path before you in the matter of the names of the Holy One, blessed is He, through which to attain and reach your desired goal. Since I see that your intention is better and more upright than your request, I find it necessary to inform you which path is apportioned for light...​

From Rabbi Gikatilla's Wikipedia entry:

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Gikatilla was for some time a pupil of the kabbalist Abraham Abulafia, by whom he is highly praised; his kabbalistic knowledge became so profound that he was supposed to be able to work miracles, and on this account was called "Joseph Ba'al ha-Nissim".. (the Thaumaturge or literally Master of Miracles; Zacuto, Yuḥasin, p. 224a).​

The source text for the above is available for free online in its entirety. The introduction is a 10 minute read: LINK

Where should you start? Try this? Read the introduction to Sha'arie Ohr ( "Gates of Light" ). It's free. It's a 10 minute read:

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Start there? Let me know what you think of it?

Note: this is the Hebrew/English version. The English translation is below each Hebrew paragraph.

I’d be careful with anything related to Abulafia. The messianic trap seems to be particularly potent in his system

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 2:52 AM

Hi, I'm an Orthodox Catechumen. I got into orthodoxy hoping to learn more about the mystical side of Christianity, since it overlaps with white magic. (At least, that's my understanding.)

I've tried asking my priest about that sort of thing, but he just tells me to say my prayers.

How/where can I learn more about white magic?

For books, all I have found so far are "The White Magic Book" and "The White Magic Encyclopedia." (I did read them.)

I guess what I'm asking is, where should I start looking?

Thanks.

Take a look at Marion’s Putting on the Mind of Christ: The Inner Work of Christian Spirituality

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 2:55 AM

Dear Christos, this is a very challenging topic. To start with, maybe you could practice saying the name Yehoshuah (the Hebrew version of the name Jesus) as a vibratory formula. Try it in different ways, in a deeper voice, whispering, high-pitched voice, singing, etc. Then add to that the visualization of a luminous cross... and you will slowly become a Christian magician. Also, have you tried

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? As a Christian, you can do that, just leave out the pagan names in the LVX formula and replace them all with Yehoshuah. But hey, this is a suggestion. I'm just an armchair magician...

Setting aside, for a moment, what Jesus’s Hebrew name was (and whether it’s been lost to history), did you just recommend a left hand path ritual to a right hand path practitioner?

 

[Johny111]

Setting aside, for a moment, what Jesus’s Hebrew name was (and whether it’s been lost to history), did you just recommend a left hand path ritual to a right hand path practitioner?

There are several ways to write the name Jesus in Hebrew. For example: יֵשׁוּעַ, then יְהוֹשֻׁעַ, and יהשוה. The latter is the way of writing used by so-called Christian Kabbalists (Pico della Mirandola and Johann Reuchlin). What I recommended comes from Golden Dawn materials. If you consider that an expression of the Left-Hand Path, then you are seeing ten steps ahead and far beyond everyone else. Oh, beloved teacher, allow me to follow the path of your holy footsteps!

 

[pruner_tipster]

Oh, beloved teacher, allow me to follow the path of your holy footsteps!

The only guru is within

יֵשׁוּעַ, then יְהוֹשֻׁעַ, and יהשוה

Those are all very different names (Joshua≠Jesus) and most do not (or would not) translate to Jesus. most of this seems like a thinly disguised attempt to shoehorn jesus into the Tetragrammaton to support jesus as The Christ and not A christ. the incentive makes the result, questionable.

 

[Sabbatius]

Hi, I'm an Orthodox Catechumen. I got into orthodoxy hoping to learn more about the mystical side of Christianity, since it overlaps with white magic. (At least, that's my understanding.)

I've tried asking my priest about that sort of thing, but he just tells me to say my prayers.

How/where can I learn more about white magic?

For books, all I have found so far are "The White Magic Book" and "The White Magic Encyclopedia." (I did read them.)

I guess what I'm asking is, where should I start looking?

Thanks.

Utilize your daily routine, as in the Prayer of the Hours, the Kathismata, end with the Small Compline, then Matins.
Focus on the prayers, place the focus on the intention you have, and because you choose Christianity, give it to Christ, and His will be done.
If you wish to go towards a more Hesychast/Ascetic approach- the Philokalia which has no rule to read. You are a hermit, basically.
There is also the Holy Agpeya which is Oriental Orthodox in practice but used also by Eastern Monastics. It is a pre-Chalcedon rule that is more devotional reading and prayer. Beautiful, honestly.

 

[MorganBlack]

Those are all very different names (Joshua≠Jesus)

Yep yep. I hope this helps a little to unpacks what is a very complex history. This also pains me to write becasue I adore inter-faith conversations. I like people finding mythic and operative commonality and shared language but not at these erasure of the source material. Christian Kabbalah is a nice attempt, but uh, no. Christian Kabbalah (Renaissance-era Cabala) often relies on a fundamental misreading to suit its own theology.

I’m Latino Catholic (maternal side) with super-liberal Anglo-Jewish (paternal side). Protestants and Neopagans (who are really the same people separated by only one generation) usually get this wrong. Catholicism really has nothing to do with Judaism. Really. Except at most for some surface level names and stories.

I agree with storyteller Martin Shaw, a pagan-to-Orthodox convert, that Jesus is the last Greek god. Which may help or not here, to unravel some of this , and find a place to "put" one's exploration of this often fraught material .

In my view, Protestants looking for the 'pure faith' or sola scriptura to 'get ahead' of Catholicism are barking up the wrong tree. Catholicism didn't evolve out of a Jewish core so much as it was the inevitable result of Paul’s specific mystical (Merkabah) and maybe even magical practice. There is significant scholarship suggesting Paul actually 'is' also Simon Magus, and this isn't just a fringe conspiracy theory.

Catholicism, and maybe even more, Eastern Orthodox, is ( for our purposes at least) was built on the visionary power of a Hellenized magician, making the Protestant search for a simple, non-ritualistic origin story a total fantasy.

Protestants often tries to get rid of Paul and the Jesus of Catholicism. They want a Jesus who is a simple teacher or a social reformer. But to find that Jesus, you have to go back to the Super-ultra-Orthodox, anti-Roman Jews of the Jerusalem sect. And if you go there, you find a world that is strictly Jewish and totally alien to the modern personal savior narrative , and can only be reached by stripping away the mythic foundation and all the weird and wonderful "Greek stuff."

Many Restorationist groups (like the Mormons or Seventh-day Adventists) will chatter on about the "Great Apostasy." They'll argue that almost immediately after the last Apostle died, the Church was "corrupted" by at that stinky Greek philosophy and Roman politics. They view the entire history of Catholicism as a long detour from the Single Pure Truth (tm), but they fail to realize that without that detour really there is no house for them to live in; except, maybe these earlier Christian communities.

These dudes, the "Followers of the Way" in Jerusalem, were led by James the Just, and who were essentially ultra-Orthodox Jews. They weren't Christians as everyone thinks of them today; they were Jews who believed the Messiah had arrived, and they kept strictly to the Torah, circumcision, and dietary laws. The Catholicism that emerged wasn't competing with the Jerusalem Church and those dudes, it simply inherited the Christian title by default because that early Jewish-Christian sect was physically and culturally annihilated by the Romans.

And when it was destroyed, nobody cared. Nobody wrote about it. Either it didn't exist in the way we imagine, or it was basically already rendered obsolete by Paul's vision. The only reason we keep talking about it is because Protestants have a weird anti-Catholic obsession, but honestly nobody care then. They no more than a more a footnote to all this.

 

[pruner_tipster]

I think there’s beauty in recognizing similar myths/techniques/ideas across culture and reality tunnels. That said, crossing them seems to be inherently risky (ala Frankenstein). Im not particularly interested in debating whether Jesus was (or could have been) the messiah or whether he was god incarnate, but adding a shin to the Tetragrammaton and proclaiming that to be his Hebrew name seems like a roll of the dice.

And yes Elaine Pagels does a great job of tracking the early history of Christianity and the development of the gospels/doctrine. Given what we know now, about imperialism, i wouldnt bet on the council of Nicaea getting it (anywhere near) right given the firm Roman hand involved in dictating canon and doctrine.

Post automatically merged: Today at 12:36 AM

And for anyone interested in the Jewish context…

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[MorganBlack]

I am totally down with the "Jesus the Magician" hypothesis. I read Morton Smith’s Jesus the Magician and Pagels way back when, and liked them. From an esoteric standpoint gods don't have to ever have been be alive to be 'real.'

I think we can honor the man, Yeshua. But he is ultimately just the scaffolding for Paul’s vision. For about the first 200 years of Christianity Jesus was originally a celestial deity (like the ones in the Merkabah visions) , and was only later "historicized" to give the Church more grounded authority, and consolidate power, but whatever. Politics.

 

[pruner_tipster]

I am totally down with the "Jesus the Magician" hypothesis. I read Morton Smith’s Jesus the Magician and Pagels way back when, and liked them. From an esoteric standpoint gods don't have to ever have been be alive to be 'real.'

I think we can honor the man, Yeshua. But he is ultimately just the scaffolding for Paul’s vision. For about the first 200 years of Christianity Jesus was originally a celestial deity (like the ones in the Merkabah visions) , and was only later "historicized" to give the Church more grounded authority, and consolidate power, but whatever. Politics.

It’s been a minute since i read Pagels, im pretty sure the takeaway was there was no single uniform Christianity for the first 50-200 years after he was crucified. There were groups of practicing Christ followers (i imagine small cult like gatherings) who were grappling with who he was and how does one practice what he taught. Does one need synagogues? Temples? Rites/rituals? Im very curious by what Jesus did as a practice and how he came by his healing powers, assuming he had em. But i dont think his followers were privy to his methods.
For the purposes of this thread, caution is probably the move when people start talking about Jesus’s name in Hebrew especially when it somehow becomes adding a letter to the Tetragrammaton.