Immortality through creating energetic body

[Morell]

I was reading through material of Mikal Nyght, he suggest achieing of immortality through creating energetic double (later in work named the Other) and then merging with him in order to achieve immortality.

He doesn't specify the way of creating the double, seems to be open to many possibilities, including crush on fictional character to create design for the other for the moment.

When it is creted it is supposed to be "fed" energy till it becomes strong enough to work independently and influencing your life in order to help you get towards the goal, which is reuunion of you and your Double, or moving your consciousness from your body into the Double.

At least this sounds possible and has some ense of being doable.

Would like opinions of others on this.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

Seems very ambitious! Not sure you'd be able to guarantee that it would want to merge with you though - you've got it to work independently and influencing your life, so who's to say it wouldn't just stick two fingers up at you when the time comes?

 

[Keldan]

It’s very doable, but I wouldn’t call it “achieving immortality” in the literal sense. In his framework, “achieving immortality” really means creating and nurturing an energetic body. You can call it double, other, or whatever you want to call. There’s no hard limit, you could make a double, a triple, or ten more if you wanted.

Whether it needs to be fed depends on how it’s created. So you have to feed it for it to stay alive, or you don't need to feed it at all. Likewise, depending on how it’s created, it ceases to exist when you die, or it can live on independently.

This ties into your other topic about whether a practitioner’s magick can continue after they pass. Your physical body here on earth still dies either way. The “immortality” claim is really that the double can continue on after you’re gone, which is a different thing than you living forever in your current body.

 

[astralurosr]

I was reading through material of Mikal Nyght, he suggest achieing of immortality through creating energetic double (later in work named the Other) and then merging with him in order to achieve immortality.

He doesn't specify the way of creating the double, seems to be open to many possibilities, including crush on fictional character to create design for the other for the moment.

When it is creted it is supposed to be "fed" energy till it becomes strong enough to work independently and influencing your life in order to help you get towards the goal, which is reuunion of you and your Double, or moving your consciousness from your body into the Double.

At least this sounds possible and has some ense of being doable.

Would like opinions of others on this.

What you are describing has historical, psychological, and symbolic parallels, but it needs to be framed precisely to avoid confusion.
First: on “immortality”
You are already immortal in the only sense that actually holds:
Information persists
Patterns persist
Conscious processes recycle and transform
What is not immortal is the biological vehicle and the ego-identity tied to it.
So the real question is not “can I become immortal?”
It is:
In what form does continuity of awareness persist, and through what medium?
About the “energetic double / Other”
This idea appears under many names across systems:
Jung – the Shadow / Autonomous Complex
Tibetan Buddhism – Tulpa (symbolic, not literal immortality transfer)
Hermeticism – Subtle Body / Astral Form
Modern psychology – Internalized agent / subpersonality
Neuroscience – Parallel self-models in the brain
The mechanism is always the same:
You create a secondary self-model and invest attention, emotion, and intention into it.
This does work, but not in the literal way often implied.
What actually happens (mechanism)
When you “create the Other”:
You are externalizing a goal-oriented self-representation
You are strengthening a parallel decision-making pattern
It begins influencing behavior indirectly, not independently
Feeding it “energy” =
Attention
Rehearsal
Emotional charge
Narrative reinforcement
This can change your life trajectory, yes.
Where the idea breaks down
The following claims are not supported:
Literal transfer of consciousness into a constructed double
Physical immortality via merging with an internal construct
Independent existence of the “Other” outside your nervous system
At that point, the idea crosses from symbolic technology into metaphysical literalism, which is where people get lost.
The real boundary (this matters)
You can influence:
Perception
Behavior
Decision-making
Meaning
Legacy
Psychological continuity
You cannot:
Escape biological limits
Bypass entropy
Migrate consciousness like a file
Any system claiming that literally is using myth-language, not technical language.
The correct reframing
The “Other” is best understood as:
A deliberately engineered inner operator that helps reorganize your life toward a chosen direction.
Used correctly:
It strengthens agency
It reduces fragmentation
It aligns action with long-term goals
Used incorrectly:
It leads to dissociation
Magical thinking
Loss of grounding
Final answer, plainly
Yes — there is continuity beyond the body, but not in the way described.
Yes — you can create internal structures that profoundly shape your life.
No — literal immortality via an energetic double is not how it works.
Your range of influence depends on your clarity, grounding, and discipline.
Not on feeding a fantasy.
Immortality is not escape from limits.
It is how much of you persists, and where.

 

[Mannimarco]

I was reading through material of Mikal Nyght, he suggest achieing of immortality through creating energetic double (later in work named the Other) and then merging with him in order to achieve immortality.

Hmmmmmmmm, that is very, very interesting.

When it is creted it is supposed to be "fed" energy till it becomes strong enough to work independently and influencing your life in order to help you get towards the goal, which is reuunion of you and your Double, or moving your consciousness from your body into the Double.

This sounds like a powerful servitor. If the intention is to unite with it after you die, I think that's doable, though I couldn't say if it would be enough to result in "immortality", which i presume to mean ascension/apotheosis. Moving one's consciousness from their body into the Double, sounds more like something you would do while your body was still alive. I've never tried anything like that.

I have some experience with similar experiments for similar goals. I've tried making servitors attached to the outer layers of my energy field, but by the time I got serious energy coming into them, I had constant excruciating migraines. My energy body couldn't keep up with their growth. I had to give up and move them into physical vessels. Divination says after I die it will be a piece of cake to absorb them, and all my other servitors as well. Hopefully that works out, I don't think there's a way to test it ahead of time.

I'm also trying to create something that might be similiar to the "Other", but inside my sub/unconcious mind. I am not sure if these are more like servitors, or "new" parts of the mind. So far I have several of them with different magickal specialities. This seems to solve the energy overload problem, but it's too soon to say how this is going to work long term. This is also extremely dangerous, and it might just be the most effective way possible to give yourself DID and go totally insane. Fingers crossed

 

[Morell]

Thanks for that! Just what I wanted, more angles than I could ever think about. Some really good stuff to consider!

Seems very ambitious! Not sure you'd be able to guarantee that it would want to merge with you though - you've got it to work independently and influencing your life, so who's to say it wouldn't just stick two fingers up at you when the time comes?

Damn right! Depends on the programing of this servitor/double, I guess. Also on how you threat it. Mikal seems to intent to keep developing loving relationship with the double.

It’s very doable, but I wouldn’t call it “achieving immortality” in the literal sense. In his framework, “achieving immortality” really means creating and nurturing an energetic body. You can call it double, other, or whatever you want to call. There’s no hard limit, you could make a double, a triple, or ten more if you wanted.

Whether it needs to be fed depends on how it’s created. So you have to feed it for it to stay alive, or you don't need to feed it at all. Likewise, depending on how it’s created, it ceases to exist when you die, or it can live on independently.

This ties into your other topic about whether a practitioner’s magick can continue after they pass. Your physical body here on earth still dies either way. The “immortality” claim is really that the double can continue on after you’re gone, which is a different thing than you living forever in your current body.

Wow, need to feed/no need to feed, I didn't think about that, but I should have! You're right, I was putting up that topic on spells over-lasting the sorcerer, though for very different reason. But I agree that it relates... although if you become part of your magic by merging with double, it is not exactly outliving you, is it?

Post automatically merged: Friday at 2:38 PM

Hmmmmmmmm, that is very, very interesting.

This sounds like a powerful servitor. If the intention is to unite with it after you die, I think that's doable, though I couldn't say if it would be enough to result in "immortality", which i presume to mean ascension/apotheosis. Moving one's consciousness from their body into the Double, sounds more like something you would do while your body was still alive. I've never tried anything like that.

I have some experience with similar experiments for similar goals. I've tried making servitors attached to the outer layers of my energy field, but by the time I got serious energy coming into them, I had constant excruciating migraines. My energy body couldn't keep up with their growth. I had to give up and move them into physical vessels. Divination says after I die it will be a piece of cake to absorb them, and all my other servitors as well. Hopefully that works out, I don't think there's a way to test it ahead of time.

I'm also trying to create something that might be similiar to the "Other", but inside my sub/unconcious mind. I am not sure if these are more like servitors, or "new" parts of the mind. So far I have several of them with different magickal specialities. This seems to solve the energy overload problem, but it's too soon to say how this is going to work long term. This is also extremely dangerous, and it might just be the most effective way possible to give yourself DID and go totally insane. Fingers crossed

Fingers crossed. Some danger is worth risking, otherwise we as humanity would never get anywhere...

 

[frater_pan]

In effect the creation of a tulpa and transference of consciousness.

 

[Keldan]

Wow, need to feed/no need to feed, I didn't think about that, but I should have! You're right, I was putting up that topic on spells over-lasting the sorcerer, though for very different reason. But I agree that it relates... although if you become part of your magic by merging with double, it is not exactly outliving you, is it?

If a creator can make it live independently, then it’ll live and outlive you regardless. Because you’re going to die anyway, merge or no merge. It’s not like merging with it a couple times is going to give you another 10 years to live, it doesn’t work like that. You’re not “continuing through it” at all.

The easiest way to test whether it outlives you (in that person’s exact framework) is the merge. If it still agrees to merge with you and still needs your energy, then it’s not going to make it. Because once you’re gone, it’ll die too, since your energy is basically its main source of fuel while you’re alive.

It’s the same reason Mannimarco’s experiment didn’t work. Because it still needed the creator’s energy. So it’s either continuously draining you like in Mannimarco’s case, or it won’t have a source to keep it alive once you’re gone.

And even while you’re alive, if it only follows your commands and is very single-minded, it’s not going to outlast. It won’t live long on its own because it doesn’t have the intelligence to evolve. It’ll eventually cease to exist because its mind just ceases after a certain amount of time.

Like I said above, how it’s created is what determines whether it outlasts you or not, and whether it can be “immortal” in the sense of continuing to live on its own.

 

[Beyond Everything]

This is basically what some people try to (futilely) achieve by using souped-up versions of the GD's Body of Light method. What's missing from all this is that the physical body itself needs to be transformed, brought to a higher 'vibration'. This is pretty hidden stuff, and obscure, and that's because it grants the person who accomplishes it extreme power post-mortem.

 

[Durward]

I was reading through material of Mikal Nyght, he suggest achieing of immortality through creating energetic double (later in work named the Other) and then merging with him in order to achieve immortality.

He doesn't specify the way of creating the double, seems to be open to many possibilities, including crush on fictional character to create design for the other for the moment.

When it is creted it is supposed to be "fed" energy till it becomes strong enough to work independently and influencing your life in order to help you get towards the goal, which is reuunion of you and your Double, or moving your consciousness from your body into the Double.

At least this sounds possible and has some ense of being doable.

Would like opinions of others on this.

This sounds like a blatant rip on Carlos Castaneda's mention of the same thing, using the same words.
In Castaneda's books, there is enough information about recapitulation to create your double, and the reason for making it.
It takes a long time to do, and plenty of hours of meditation, and dropping the human dialogue or form.
I have notes somewhere to make that process a little easier, since the books from Castaneda are all over the place with no flow or actual instructions, written in a journal format.
There was never any promise of immortality, but it is about escaping death with your mind and memories intact. and facing whatever comes after that escape. There could be more to it, and even his benefactor Don Juan couldn't say what actually happens after you feed your double to that which demands your life at your death. There is also mention of the 2,000 year old 'Tenant' that stops by to charge up with energy once every generation, and that entails a different form of putting off death, by stepping into alternate dimensions as an alternate life form.

 

[Beyond Everything]

and even his benefactor Don Juan

Castenada was writing fiction, people looked into his claims.

 

[Kepler]

That approach is considered a mistake to the order of the soul in my current model of reality. Not that there aren't uses for the practice. It's just that by itself immortality isn't it. There'd have to be alignment with the universe.

In my model, souls are incarnated from the minds of hyperdimensional beings in an immanent hylozoic universe. Where any discrete pattern spawns consciousness, some more particular to the individual. External forces around factors of vector, momentum and cohesion of the soul from changes to alignment with the cosmos can be made while incarnate. Not only conscious changes to immortality through reincarnation, but conscious dissolution of the soul.

 

[sahgwa]

That approach is considered a mistake to the order of the soul in my current model of reality. Not that there aren't uses for the practice. It's just that by itself immortality isn't it. There'd have to be alignment with the universe.

In my model, souls are incarnated from the minds of hyperdimensional beings in an immanent hylozoic universe. Where any discrete pattern spawns consciousness, some more particular to the individual. External forces around factors of vector, momentum and cohesion of the soul from changes to alignment with the cosmos can be made while incarnate. Not only conscious changes to immortality through reincarnation, but conscious dissolution of the soul.

["Hylozoism is the philosophical doctrine according to which all matter is alive or animated, either in itself or as participating in the action of a superior principle, usually the world-soul (anima mundi)."]

Would you consider many teachings of a Higher Self, or a Holy Guardian Angel, as pointing to those as being these 'hyperdimensional beings' you speak of ?
It would make sense to me.

You mention 'conscious dissolution of the soul' but what about 'conscious fostering of PERCEPTIVE/Intelligent/personal immortality?' we all know the soul is immortal (mostly) but what about the opposite of this possible dissolution?

Castenada was writing fiction, people looked into his claims.

So you don't believe fictional structures or ideas can be used successfully in magick? What about magick BEING creative imagination, as this is what creates the world and moves energy?
Furthermore, it seems Castaneda did meet and study with Yaqui shamans, he just created a fictional character to share what he had learnt. A lot of it is very useful. Besides Castaneda's books and digging out their practises, I recommend the books Toltec Dreaming by Eagle Feather and The Teachings of Don Carlos by Sanchez. A lot of the Toltec teachings are simple or basic to many of his here, but they are useful tools.

 

[Durward]

Castenada was writing fiction, people looked into his claims.

I actually bought the book by Richard de Mille, where he ripped Castaneda's books to shreds, showing that what isn't fiction is plagiarism. Castaneda plagiarized quite a bit of materials from Atkinson, who was also an early 1900's plagiarist posing as many things, including a Guru. So he copied from one of the better plagiarists of 1900's America. Atkinson was a greedy publisher, and stole his materials from books and writings existing before 1900. I tried to track some of them to their real source, which I found impossible. I like to think that some of the sources for both of these plagiarists and posers have some gems in them. Not all of the sources were fiction. I like to think this because I did see some parallels to my own experiences and was very excited in the 1970's to see them written down by someone else. A lot of years of study followed, and I watched Castaneda turn into quite the cult. I watched as Castaneda was accused of child molestation, and as one of his followers was found murdered in the desert. I watched as Castaneda, the millionaire "sorcerer" got cancer and died like everyone else. I watched as his cult followers tried to print their own books and do seminars, tensegrity (a blatant rip on Tai Chi and Qigong), and tell more and more lies and stories. You can still find plenty of people online who think they are Naguals or that they are sorcerers and follow all of the spin-off books and materials, like Mikal is obviously plagiarizing here. I'm not going to judge them, since I was very impressed with it myself at the time, and can see some of these practices in other sources he plagiarized them from. This area is a very slippery slope, and can consume a person. But it is likely a stage that some of us need to go through as part of our development.
I would like to think that if you believe hard enough and long enough, you may just experience some of these things because you are manifesting them.
Anyway, I haven't found the source of what Castaneda was writing about concerning the subject of creating your own double in order to cheat death, but I'm sure it exists, and it likely exists word for word since he barely changed the plagiarized materials he printed. It would be an interesting find.

 

[sahgwa]

I actually bought the book by Richard de Mille, where he ripped Castaneda's books to shreds, showing that what isn't fiction is plagiarism. Castaneda plagiarized quite a bit of materials from Atkinson, who was also an early 1900's plagiarist posing as many things, including a Guru. So he copied from one of the better plagiarists of 1900's America. Atkinson was a greedy publisher, and stole his materials from books and writings existing before 1900. I tried to track some of them to their real source, which I found impossible. I like to think that some of the sources for both of these plagiarists and posers have some gems in them. Not all of the sources were fiction. I like to think this because I did see some parallels to my own experiences and was very excited in the 1970's to see them written down by someone else. A lot of years of study followed, and I watched Castaneda turn into quite the cult. I watched as Castaneda was accused of child molestation, and as one of his followers was found murdered in the desert. I watched as Castaneda, the millionaire "sorcerer" got cancer and died like everyone else. I watched as his cult followers tried to print their own books and do seminars, tensegrity (a blatant rip on Tai Chi and Qigong), and tell more and more lies and stories. You can still find plenty of people online who think they are Naguals or that they are sorcerers and follow all of the spin-off books and materials, like Mikal is obviously plagiarizing here. I'm not going to judge them, since I was very impressed with it myself at the time, and can see some of these practices in other sources he plagiarized them from. This area is a very slippery slope, and can consume a person. But it is likely a stage that some of us need to go through as part of our development.
I would like to think that if you believe hard enough and long enough, you may just experience some of these things because you are manifesting them.
Anyway, I haven't found the source of what Castaneda was writing about concerning the subject of creating your own double in order to cheat death, but I'm sure it exists, and it likely exists word for word since he barely changed the plagiarized materials he printed. It would be an interesting find.

I have said it often on this forum, but there can be plenty of human beings that do have useful teachings, even if their personal lives are not perfect.
Plagiarised or not, a lot of the basic work with dream work, shadow selves, energy, and the like, do bear fruit. Especially recapitulation.
I do think Tensegrity is a load of BS though.
I thought we were mature enough to quit conflating the person with the ideas.
This is akin to the overly political freaks who can't listen to a band because XYZ politics in their minds. Art for art's sake in both cases.

 

[Beyond Everything]

Furthermore, it seems Castaneda did meet and study with Yaqui shamans,

lol he made shit up. The Yaqui don't even use Peyote. Don Juan was imaginary. You do realize there are people who make it their life's work to look into such things?

He lifted shit from various sources (like a tai chi teacher) and (creatively) fused it into a package to sell to the public. His cultish followers were shocked when he was diagnosed with Cancer and then some of them even killed themselves.

It's a dead path if one is interested in immortality.

 

[sahgwa]

I have said it often on this forum, but there can be plenty of human beings that do have useful teachings, even if their personal lives are not perfect.
Plagiarised or not, a lot of the basic work with dream work, shadow selves, energy, and the like, do bear fruit. Especially recapitulation.
I do think Tensegrity is a load of BS though.
I thought we were mature enough to quit conflating the person with the ideas.
This is akin to the overly political freaks who can't listen to a band because XYZ politics in their minds. Art for art's sake in both cases.

Put simply, it's about doing the Work. You get results if you just do Work. Not reading. Not complaining. Bickering but sit down, focus. Or do rituals etc. These people had flaws, who here doesn't? It doesn't mean your magick doesn't bear personal fruit or help some others.

 

[Beyond Everything]

I thought we were mature enough to quit conflating the person with the ideas.
This is akin to the overly political freaks who can't listen to a band because XYZ politics in their minds. Art for art's sake in both cases.

That is a really dumb analogy. It's more akin to looking at the health condition of a nutritionist who recommends X dietary practice

 

[sahgwa]

lol he made shit up. The Yaqui don't even use Peyote. Don Juan was imaginary. You do realize there are people who make it their life's work to look into such things?

He lifted shit from various sources (like a tai chi teacher) and (creatively) fused it into a package to sell to the public. His cultish followers were shocked when he was diagnosed with Cancer and then some of them even killed themselves.

It's a dead path if one is interested in immortality.

Are you saying that your magick will cure cancer if you get it?
And are you personally talking about physical immortality, or perceptive, remembering immortality of the soul and personality?

Post automatically merged: Friday at 10:15 PM

That is a really dumb analogy. It's more akin to looking at the health condition of a nutritionist who recommends X dietary practice

Which would also be erroneous. Just because they are eating healthy doesnt mean necessarily their health would be good. And that also wouldnt negate their professional advice.

Post automatically merged: Friday at 10:15 PM

That is a really dumb analogy. It's more akin to looking at the health condition of a nutritionist who recommends X dietary practice

Which would also be erroneous. Just because they are eating healthy doesnt mean necessarily their health would be good. And that also wouldnt negate their professional advice.

 

[Beyond Everything]

Are you saying that your magick will cure cancer if you get it?

Im saying as a cult leader Castenada set up certain expectations in his cult followers. Some of them killed themselves after their disappointment and shock in what they considered his early demise.