What work can be done outside the planetary hours - I keep missing them

[Lion]

Is it possible to invoke spirits at a time that isnt the planetary hour for that spirit? what kinds of work arent dependent on doing it in the non-planetary hours?

 

[iseht]

Ideally both day and hour are aligned, if for some reason you can't do hour, then do day, but hour is more important than day. Some conjurations require far more precise timings, it depends on what you're working with. If you want to speak to a planetary spirit, you should align with it. If you want to speak to unrelated miscellaneous pagan god, then it probably doesn't matter too much.

 

[Ben Gruagach]

Timings are about attempting to take advantage of the best moments to do something (perform a particular spell, contact a being, etc.). You can certainly try to do a spell or contact a being outside of the "ideal time" and it might or might not work. If you do the work during the ideal time then the chance of success is greater.

 

[saber]

I invoke planetary spirits pretty frequently outside of their ideal hours, and they still respond to me. Asking for guidance from a spirit or requesting aid is definitely possible. If I'm infusing a talisman though, I'll still try to work within the hours. I set an alarm as a reminder for 15 minutes beforehand so I have time to cleanse the space before I start ritual.

The way I see it, planetary hours are more of an optional thing that can enhance results rather than a mandatory thing.

 

[AbammonTheGreat]

Is it possible to invoke spirits at a time that isnt the planetary hour for that spirit? what kinds of work arent dependent on doing it in the non-planetary hours?

You can do work with the spirits outside of the hour if its the day.

For example I can conjure Jupiters spirits at any time on Thursday, but if I want to ask for their power it will be much stronger during the hour.

If you need to call a planetary spirit in a bind then you can do it in their hour but not on the day. For example I have an emergency and need to rectify a situation by calling on Mercurys spirits but its Friday. Just make sure youre calling on them during his hour on the Friday but you only have the duration of that hour before they get extracted out and something else shows up to LARP.

If there is an astrological election, for example, its Monday night and youre making a talisman with Saturn and Mars you can call on those spirits and they'll show up only as long as you are facing the star and it is in your line of sight.

The exceptions to these rules are the sun and moon. Sun requires only daylight to access its spirits and Moon can be accessed at all times but you have to coordinate with the mansions.

For direct conversation abide by the hour on off days and if you need more flexibility use the day.

For talismans more attention to detail = more power. So right election + day + hour is what you want.

If you have a talisman consecrated by the spirit during an appropriate time you can communicate with the spirit at any time throughout your day, as a piece of it is in the talisman, however it may not be magically capable of performing action until its correct times.

This all comes down to an old occult philosophy known as the stellar rays. If the rays are present (either by timing or sensory experience) then the spirits are capable of communion and effect.

 

[Digiquo]

You can do work with the spirits outside of the hour if its the day.

For example I can conjure Jupiters spirits at any time on Thursday, but if I want to ask for their power it will be much stronger during the hour.

If you need to call a planetary spirit in a bind then you can do it in their hour but not on the day. For example I have an emergency and need to rectify a situation by calling on Mercurys spirits but its Friday. Just make sure youre calling on them during his hour on the Friday but you only have the duration of that hour before they get extracted out and something else shows up to LARP.

If there is an astrological election, for example, its Monday night and youre making a talisman with Saturn and Mars you can call on those spirits and they'll show up only as long as you are facing the star and it is in your line of sight.

The exceptions to these rules are the sun and moon. Sun requires only daylight to access its spirits and Moon can be accessed at all times but you have to coordinate with the mansions.

For direct conversation abide by the hour on off days and if you need more flexibility use the day.

For talismans more attention to detail = more power. So right election + day + hour is what you want.

If you have a talisman consecrated by the spirit during an appropriate time you can communicate with the spirit at any time throughout your day, as a piece of it is in the talisman, however it may not be magically capable of performing action until its correct times.

This all comes down to an old occult philosophy known as the stellar rays. If the rays are present (either by timing or sensory experience) then the spirits are capable of communion and effect.

Do you have a good resource for learning more about these stellar rays? It seems like there should be a gigantic amount of notes and research laying extent somewhere detailing the extensive experiments required to learn exactly what spirits were receptive to which rituals and at which very specific times.

 

[AbammonTheGreat]

Do you have a good resource for learning more about these stellar rays? It seems like there should be a gigantic amount of notes and research laying extent somewhere detailing the extensive experiments required to learn exactly what spirits were receptive to which rituals and at which very specific times.

The theory was developed by Al-Kindi (or Pseudo-Al Kindi dependent on who you ask) in his treatise De Radiis although Al Kindi was laying a "scientific"/aristotlean philosophical framework for how people understood the occult virtues of materials and stars to work. Al Sakakki goes into a lot of the same ideas in his occult works and Agrippa adopts this idea of the stellar rays but refers to the occult and planetary virtues as radiation.

Unfortunately there is not much research or notes on this that extend past the Abassayid caliphate (and this is where it gets tricky for the westerner as this material is largely left untranslated from the Arabic) as the european grimoires are more concerned with practical performance than the philosophy and exploration of the spheres. As far as I'm aware, and its hard to express this with humility, I am one of the only western modern practitioners exploring the mechanics, theology, and philosophy behind the stellar rays and their relationship to the spirits from a practitioners lense. You can find a lot of modern scholarship exploring the historiography of the development of the ideas but as far as occultists go this realm has long since been abandoned by occulture and western esotericism at large in favor of the Abrahamic heirarchies/angelogy/demonology.

I can reveal certain things but the past five years have been an ongoing project on communicating with as much of the spirits as possible utilizing the techniques scattered amongst the Arabic grimoires. My medium and I have been dilligently working on assembling as much of the material as possible for future use by western occultists.

 

[Digiquo]

The theory was developed by Al-Kindi (or Pseudo-Al Kindi dependent on who you ask) in his treatise De Radiis although Al Kindi was laying a "scientific"/aristotlean philosophical framework for how people understood the occult virtues of materials and stars to work. Al Sakakki goes into a lot of the same ideas in his occult works and Agrippa adopts this idea of the stellar rays but refers to the occult and planetary virtues as radiation.

Unfortunately there is not much research or notes on this that extend past the Abassayid caliphate (and this is where it gets tricky for the westerner as this material is largely left untranslated from the Arabic) as the european grimoires are more concerned with practical performance than the philosophy and exploration of the spheres. As far as I'm aware, and its hard to express this with humility, I am one of the only western modern practitioners exploring the mechanics, theology, and philosophy behind the stellar rays and their relationship to the spirits from a practitioners lense. You can find a lot of modern scholarship exploring the historiography of the development of the ideas but as far as occultists go this realm has long since been abandoned by occulture and western esotericism at large in favor of the Abrahamic heirarchies/angelogy/demonology.

I can reveal certain things but the past five years have been an ongoing project on communicating with as much of the spirits as possible utilizing the techniques scattered amongst the Arabic grimoires. My medium and I have been dilligently working on assembling as much of the material as possible for future use by western occultists.

Fascinating. While I barely touched on it, Agrippa's Three Books of Occult Philosophy was one of the first books I was recommended when first seeking out the occult. The concept of astrology seemed a mite out of my league though when I started several months ago and had absolutely no prior experience. Dream work and manifestation with some visualization thrown in have been my primary focuses, but the more I learn about any of these the more it seems I'm falling short of further growth because of my lack of knowledge on astrology and the various philosophies associated with it.

I'm currently ploughing through The Golden Bough which has been very insightful into the very earliest history of magic, but I think I will need to start making room for Agrippa's Occult Philsophies if I want to see further progress.

I would be most intrigued to hear about your own progress on the subject. Like you said, many modern practicioners of any of the occult seem to practice concepts that have been passed down, but with little understanding of how we know what we know. I'm eager to see where this new train of thought leads me.