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Perhaps the soul doesnt reincarnate into EVERY aspect of existence, but perhaps it simply reincarnates until it is satisfied with its individual experiences? Lets also go as far to say that maybe not every soul started human, or will be in the next life?
Now I wonder if a long line is instead for species. What would be the most popular animal to incarnate? Personally being an ant sounds amazing. Its not a long life but ants have this whole society so it would be super interesting.
Or maybe a Panda. All you get to do all day is eat and do nothing. People take care of you because your endangered so you do nothing. Amazing
Now I wonder if a long line is instead for species. What would be the most popular animal to incarnate? Personally being an ant sounds amazing. Its not a long life but ants have this whole society so it would be super interesting.
Or maybe a Panda. All you get to do all day is eat and do nothing. People take care of you because your endangered so you do nothing. Amazing
I doubt it is a line to reincanate, id assume if there is no room on earth, then it would be on another planet with life on it far far away, or even on a different plane of existence, such as the astral. Now, on your topic of animals, ants seem cool, would love to participate in an ant war! I used to have two rival colonies in my backyard that i would watch for hours, leaving food at both of them so they can eat and get stronger and also try to raid each other for it. Was very fun until the rain destroyed them both. But, if i had a choice, it would be a cat. Yes, i know, im a simpleton. But cats seem so wise. They arent bothered by the need for social status, they are already quite solitary creatures, they live a relatively egoless existence. Or at least it is quite softened. Sounds peaceful if you ask me.
There's the meliorative, the punitive and the traditional Eastern scenarios.
According to the Theosophist scenario, the only way is up. The universe is nothing if not benevolent and will support your path towards self-development in any way it can. It's deeply invested in your spiritual well-being, always ready purify your soul, make your reincarnations ever more richer and rewarding, and teach you valuable lessons because it only exists to serve the human race. Since the advent of the NewAge movement, it's not restricted to white Victorian colonialists anymore.
The punitive scenario is a product of traditional Jewish Kabbalah. The orthodox rabbinate thought it heterodox, some Kabbalist rabbis didn't belive in it but for those that did, reincarnation was a punishment for sinning. According to whom you believe, there can only be three (or up to ten) reincarnations as a human, some others think you can be also reborn as an animal, a few even consider reincarnation as a mineral a posibility.
The impression I got from my Buddhist studies long ago is that karma was a blind machine, and only the most realised lamas can tell what your next rebirth will be like. Accordingly, an 'old soul' can just as well be reborn as a hate-consumed hell being, and the same probably goes for internet trolls devoid of any compassion who claim that starving people (incl. children) have only themselves to blame for their swollen bellies because of their obstinate refusal to investigate the roots of their misery. There are
on offer for rebirth, of whom the world of human is very difficult to attain. The universe is indifferent, not just, and doesn't give a rat's ass about your spiritual progress.
As far as the afterlife or rebirth is concerned, I'm a materialist. You die, and it's game over. Sweet oblivion is what I hope for but the gods- whom I don't believe in - may have other ideas, and I'd hate to wake up in some realm and be forced to start all over again. Horrible idea.
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Oh yeah, forgot about collective karma. Many Hasids believe that the Shoa was a punishment for all the sins of the Jewish people. Some lamas think the Chinese occupation was a result of some unspecified Tibetan guilt. The karmic victims blaming themselves but collective karma could serve as a justification for the suffering of innocents.
The idea of reicarnation is not a new concept, but it is a flawed one. It expects that there exists a soul which is unique to you and you only, and before that the soul was someone else, and after it will be someone else again.
If you really think about it, that soul isn't you; you are the id, and you are the ego; the soul is more like an essence of something, we could probably call it life. When you die, that essence leaves and gets repurposed, maybe as a separate being, maybe as a part of multiple beings, but you are in no shape or form involved.
Somewhere I read that we come here voluntarily to experience something.
What I cannot really understand here is why would anybody voluntarily choose such a misery? Like seriously why?
The whole experience seems so utterly pointless, meaningless, worthless.
For many people it is nothing more than doing things they hate, dealing with never ending disappointment and disgust. The only thing you learn from it, ...the whole system absolutely sucks.
Another description I found, "This is a prison planet" being sent here after doing something wrong, but what and where could lead to that? and some souls are tricked into coming here.
What happens to an old soul after many reincarnations? They probably find a way not to return here, cheat codes, some solution.
I already said it in this thread but will say it again nonetheless, if not for anything else but to give this conversation its proper ending, there are only two possible fates for a soul in this Universe-it either merges back with its Creator and leaves all of its experience to it ending its existence in an infinite bliss, or, it gathers the will to become a Creator on its own and takes all the lessons it has learned into a foundation for the design of a new Creation where it will be the Creator, the Origin, the God of another Universe, another Creation separate from this one. That is the ultimate choice this Universe offers and that is the ultimate fate of the Soul, any soul. This is the solution to the question "What happens to an old soul after many reincarnations?".
This Universe is build in such a way as to offer this choice to any and all souls, I believe. The reasons why are many and hard to explain but it all ultimately boils down to balancing drives for existence of different strides. There are those drives that want an infinite creation and light pouring out for an infinite all-encompassing existence but they need to be balanced with the drives to end it all and the acceptance of suffering lies at the center of the balance between them both. In order to have creation pain must be bared by the souls created. If there is destruction, and thus end of and opposite to creation, pleasure is experienced but at the price of shrinking creation. Therefore, the Soul is presented with an eternal choice-the only true choice of its existence mind you-to accept suffering as the price for creation and to suffer alone in creations of its own design making its creations suffer too but providing them with life, or, to self-annihilate by deciding to return back to the source thus experiencing an infinite bliss one last time as it merges with its Creator. This is the ultimate choice of this Universe and every soul old enough to understand its ramifications must face it. It's what ultimately decides its fate, too.
P.S. As far as those starving children are concerned, sorry, but they DO need to disperse the blinding sand of ignorance and spiritual blindness in order to see the true reasons for their suffering. Only then they can look at the real problem and start lifting up their souls from their misery.It's how things are and that is not some misanthropic position. Truth can be both revelating and chain-breaking and tossing one into his/hers greatest fears and dark fantasies. It sometimes can be scarier than any fiction, too. But until you face it the Universe has the right to bury you with as many negatives as you can bare. Ultimately, we do choose our destiny but we also are burdened with actually remembering what had we had chosen and from what options did we chose, too. And it is only our own responsibility to remember those choices. Sorry, for the reality check anyone but that is the truth hate it or like it.
P.S. As far as those starving children are concerned, sorry, but they DO need to disperse the blinding sand of ignorance and spiritual blindness in order to see the true reasons for their suffering.
Do I really need to link to three-year old skeletal victims of the ongoing famine in Sudan here to convince you that people are more important than principles? A 'highly-evolved' human without compassion isn't one, in fact, he's a soulless monster, an abomination. You disgust me.
P.S. As far as those starving children are concerned, sorry, but they DO need to disperse the blinding sand of ignorance and spiritual blindness in order to see the true reasons for their suffering. Only then they can look at the real problem and start lifting up their souls from their misery.It's how things are and that is not some misanthropic position.
I don't agree with this for a myriad of reasons. The first of which being that those kids did not have to starve and it seems like they are due to human error or human cruelty.
We produce a lot more food now but do not distribute it right and waste a lot of it. Waste that could have not been waste and instead donated instead of thrown away.
It doesn't seem like it was the universe's decision to do this but instead humans not supporting each other enough since we have enough food now. Its human error that occurs here because the very least we as people should be doing is caring for our own. If any one of us is starving especially kids who need extra support and food to grow up then someone or some system has failed wildly.
This doesn't seem like karma it seems like human error of not even being able to take care for each other. This is especially made clear when it can be easily corrected by just giving food or resources to others.
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Speaking as a someone who as a kid did go hungry sometimes it could have been very easily solved. (though it wasn't as bad as the extreme example that HoldAll mentioned above)
All I needed was someone willing to give me food more than I was given which wasn't much. I didn't have to go hungry so it didn't really feel karmic since it was mainly because of the place I resided not caring enough.
Heck even some of my family could have done a little bit more. They helped a bit but could have sent food with a bit more protien. I looked a little malnourished as a kid and that expierence I don't think taught me much.
Excuse my preference for truth over compassion but I do (truly) believe every action has consequences and is a consequence of previous action co they stuck up together to create what we call reality. As a result we are bound to experience the results of our combined actions (or be influenced by the path our future actions will take) with all the consequences of our choices coming back (and forth) from (to) us. Therefore, every pain we suffer or inflict on others both past and forward in the timelines of our habitation will get back (or come forth) to us. This is why someone who suffers as a child (seemingly without a reason) must look back at what he has done not only in this lifetime but in previous ones as well as look forward to where his path leads him to and understand the consequences of his action. Particularly those actions which lead him to experience that (otherwise inexplicable) suffering. You may not like this and you may be very well against it but that is how the system works and it's a fair and square system. Neither am I a monster for pointing that out, nor is the system wrong for generating suffering with no apparent reason. The devil is in the detail and you refusing to read them talks more about your own ignorance then a system failure.
P.S. @HoldAll and @Ohana I'm not trying to blame anyone for anyone else's mistakes but clear out how the system actually works here. If you have a problem with it I'm not the one to blame. Go and direct your complaints to a higher authority. I didn't create this system. I just am trying to understand it and live by it.
@Suayakoat And where exactly have you found this "knowledge" about how the system works? The posts made by you sound like any other deranged zealotry, a fool, trying to explain to a child why suffering exists.
Excuse my preference for truth over compassion but I do (truly) believe every action has consequences and is a consequence of previous action co they stuck up together to create what we call reality. As a result we are bound to experience the results of our combined actions (or be influenced by the path our future actions will take) with all the consequences of our choices coming back (and forth) from (to) us. Therefore, every pain we suffer or inflict on others both past and forward in the timelines of our habitation will get back (or come forth) to us. This is why someone who suffers as a child (seemingly without a reason) must look back at what he has done not only in this lifetime but in previous ones as well as look forward to where his path leads him to and understand the consequences of his action. Particularly those actions which lead him to experience that (otherwise inexplicable) suffering. You may not like this and you may be very well against it but that is how the system works and it's a fair and square system. Neither am I a monster for pointing that out, nor is the system wrong for generating suffering with no apparent reason. The devil is in the detail and you refusing to read them talks more about your own ignorance then a system failure.
P.S. @HoldAll and @Ohana I'm not trying to blame anyone for anyone else's mistakes but clear out how the system actually works here. If you have a problem with it I'm not the one to blame. Go and direct your complaints to a higher authority. I didn't create this system. I just am trying to understand it and live by it.
Come off it, I realise now it has all been a rather tasteless spoof, my mistake. Was that supposed to be a parody of a 1920s theosophist fanatic who thinks the entire universe is ruled according to his own home-spun spurious 'laws' while appropriating and thoroughly misunderstanding Asian spiritual philosophies? You clearly overdid it with the shaming of the starving children though, I shouldn't have risen to that so easily. Feel free to stay in character but I'd like to tell you even now that I won't fall for any 'humorous' rape or cancer victim-blaming provocations of yours or whatever gruesome jokes you may cook up for our edification next. By the way, the guy you were (or still are) impersonating can look forward to 500 rebirths as a scorpion if there's any karmic justice. Kinda cleverly played but I fail to see the point, April fool that I am.
.Particularly those actions which lead him to experience that (otherwise inexplicable) suffering. You may not like this and you may be very well against it but that is how the system works and it's a fair and square system. Neither am I a monster for pointing that out, nor is the system wrong for generating suffering with no apparent reason. The devil is in the detail and you refusing to read them talks more about your own ignorance then a system
There is a reason though for the suffering and its because people aren't sharing resources to those that need it enough. This veiw might work in this world if everyone is an island and cares for themselves like solitary species.
People are not solitary though and that helped build the device your typing on to post this. This world veiw could only work if we were all on islands but we're not and those that go hungry are the ones that aren't getting enough community support. Your argument falls apart when there is a reason for why people are hungry and thats literally human error and it can be worked through.
This world veiw also makes everyone static not moving nor changing. Or that everyones fate is sealed but actions have an affect on the world around us. Things change. I guess you didn't fully read over my first message since this is just me repeating myself.
So I bet your not going to listen but this world you've created for yourself I wouldn't want to live in. It goes against every survival instinct I have. Its like I guess I'm hungry well I deserved to be hungry so I won't eat anything or try to find a job so I can work to get paid so I can eat some food because I deserve this.
That sounds more like depression than anything else.
I find my knowledge in experience, and I do think reality confirms my observations. Sorry to break it up to all of you but there is a karma system perfectly working in the world outside our own preferences. So may not agree with the consequences of its existence and you may consciously try to demolish and deny it but that will not stop it from working in any way, shape or form. Yeah, joke with me all you want or curse me instead but that will not stop me from claiming everyone get exactly what s/he deserves and our pain in the now is a consequence of our actions in the past or a warning for our path in the future. I believe all set in at the moment the Universe is born, so our paths are predetermined and it's just that we don't consciously know about them at the present moment. Therefore, all suffering must be enured and all plans must be played no matter the gruesome and terrifying scenes that will be encountered during them for existence to exist, in any way it could.
Ultimately, our suffering is the price for our existence and the whole Universe is guided by that principle. It's impossible to overrule it, deny it, or in any shape or form stop its effect.
I find my knowledge in experience, and I do think reality confirms my observations. Sorry to break it up to all of you but there is a karma system perfectly working in the world outside our own preferences. So may not agree with the consequences of its existence and you may consciously try to demolish and deny it but that will not stop it from working in any way, shape or form. Yeah, joke with me all you want or curse me instead but that will not stop me from claiming everyone get exactly what s/he deserves and our pain in the now is a consequence of our actions in the past or a warning for our path in the future. I believe all set in at the moment the Universe is born, so our paths are predetermined and it's just that we don't consciously know about them at the present moment. Therefore, all suffering must be enured and all plans must be played no matter the gruesome and terrifying scenes that will be encountered during them for existence to exist, in any way it could.
Ultimately, our suffering is the price for our existence and the whole Universe is guided by that principle. It's impossible to overrule it, deny it, or in any shape or form stop its effect.
I have one last question for you. Since your world veiw also posits that some people can create their own worlds. If you were in charge of a world is the the system you would create?
Genuine question because I don't know which path you want to take of either merging or creating in your world veiw. If you want to create something you might want to think about this.
Also your world view sounds depressing since even with concepts of karma I think theres something where if someone does something to another person thats not them deserving of it thats bullying.
I think this is just to enrage others since you never actually responded to my valid criticism of your world veiw and never engaged with it. You act as if you know this potentially very complex system can be simplified with everyone gets what they deserve.
Well I'm done responding to any of this after this since this like talking to a wall. I guess this is what you deserve then from your own point of veiw. People not responding.
@Ohana yes, you can create your own Universe, if you so wish, but there is a caveat to this. You are bound by the eternal laws of logic. It means you cannot have contradictions in your Creation. Therefore any soul which is to inhabit your creation must have as much painful experiences as it must have pleasuresome ones. The two must be in balance or the ideas of pain and pleasure cannot exist at all and must be replaced by something entirely different. It's possible to get rid of pain but I fear it's only a symptom of something much deeper you cannot get rid of in an form of existence of your creation, of any possible Universe and that is existential resistance. The true reason why there is pain inside this Universe isn't the will of its Creator to make us suffer or punish us for sins but rather the fact there aren't many options to cope with the existential resistance. See, anything that exists in an Universe constraint by time is subject to degradation or omniidentity. Degradation means that the thing existing within time must be subjugated to some form of change in order to fit its existence within the larger frame of the Universe. It itself, or at least aspects of it, must be prone to diminishing as time goes on otherwise there won't be anything upon which time, which is essentially a flow of change, to act. The other way to escape the action of time is omniidentity-e.g. the property of the object to keep itself the same throughout time, and possibly space, always appearing the same no matter how time acts upon it. But omniidentity also comes with a caveat-having it means the object can't change and therefore can't grow, learn, strain or in any way interact with the Universe to shape it and be shaped by it as we do. I know those explanations may seem quite abstract and divorced from your living reality but that IS the reality of things on their deepest form-the reality God sees. In it you only have choices, not perfectly laid out plans where everything is arranged in a way you love. I know we have the perception of God as this perfect being which always arranges everything in a perfect unison and can make all your wish come true but I fear that view is divorced from reality. In the real world one can only choose between possibilities, not enact a contradictory will on existence. Therefore, the price we pay for living is suffering-it must be equated to pleasure. The two go hand in hand. Suffering is the way of the Universe to "pay up" for your creation in the first place and you must introduce it to any Universe having a changeable evolving matter capable of perceiving the world it inhabits. That is just how things are.
So, to answer your initial topic-was your hunger a result of the lack of compassion among humans or part of a Divine plan? It's both. The humans carry their fair share of responsibility but ultimately every experience here, on this world, exists to teach you a lesson. If you manage to learn this lesson you will advance enough to not have it anymore and so all the way to the merger with the Creator. So, you must understand what did that experience tried to teach you as much as you must understand why people do not share resources, The two are interconnected and if you crack the code of one you must have the answer to the other, too. That is the short answer. I may have to write another long post to tell you the long answer, someday.
