[Opinion] 卐 Swastika 卐

[akenu]

Yes it's a sad thing & idk why we are policed on everything 1964 is closer than people think the thought police will be a thing soon & we won't even have freedom of thought

Did you mean 1984?

 

[ArchonLynx]

Did you mean 1984?

Sure did lol didn't even notice I wrote 1964 haha good catch

 

[a3ct]

I would argue that the way a symbol is used affects and changes its meaning. Yes, it's historically been used as a symbol of good fortune, balance, and all sorts of other good things. It has ALSO been historically used as a symbol of hatred, fascism, and genocide.

Symbols are not unchangeable things handed down to humanity from a greater power. Symbols are created by humans and hold only the meanings given to them. Given that the swastika has been given both meanings, it holds both meanings.

If you're using it in its original context, with respect to the cultures it came from, and practicing within those cultures, that's fine. But it's ridiculous and closed-minded to call anyone who sees it as a symbol of hate "brainwashed." Your point of view requires you to completely ignore a large and important part of human history, and as dark and evil as that part of history is, it's still important to acknowledge it and its effects.

Furthermore, the use of this symbol by the Nazis is not exclusively the domain of history. It happens in the modern day too. When there are groups actively using this symbol to represent themselves and preaching hate, bigotry, fascism, and genocide under its banner, it's completely irresponsible to ignore that meaning. Modern neo-Nazi groups still use this symbol.

@TransGothGirl Thank you for your insightful answer. What would you say is the esoteric current behind a symbol's energy? A change in the egregore?

 

[Ananda]

The Indian government is unfortunately not an honest source for information on Indian history. I don't know if you have just been innocently misled, or if you are also active partisan in an attempt to recast history to suit a rather lame political agenda.

I started practicing 'Hinduism' after I was granted a certain increased perceptive ability after a vipassana retreat. I can perceive the special energy of indian cattle (which are considered to be worthy of worship) from a pic on the internet, which is what led me back to Hinduism. I can tell the difference between the energies of Islam and Christianity. And also the marked difference between Nordic runes and 'Hindu' symbols. I can also tell that the land of India has a distinct energy to it that makes mantras feel stronger and kundalini energy to rise spontaneously.

Therefore, no, I don't give a fuck what the latest theory of the pink 'scholars' and their brown sepoys is. They used to claim that there was an 'aryan invasion' around 1500 BCE, but that has been debunked. No idea about their latest BS.

If you think the current Indian government has a 'lame political' agenda, consider the downright demonic agenda of the European diaspora, and other groups. Malevolent spiritual forces which influence the Epstein class in power all over the world wish to destroy Hinduism. The easiest way to do so is to convince the Indians that their religion was forcibly introduced to them by foreigners. Their 'scholars' produce propaganda, and the average pink egotist (from my experiences in N.America, at least 50 percent of them are malicious egotists who consider anyone darker as somewhat subhuman), repeats it online, while having no interest in preserving the religion.

Post automatically merged: Wednesday at 7:04 PM

Sorry about the animosity in my post. I would edit it if I could.

 

[Firetree]

The swastika has been used in unchanged positive usage for minimum 5,000 years, if not longer. The swastika is on the bricks of the falsely named "Indus Valley Civilization" (aka Vedic India).

Jews lived in India under the rule of Hindu kings for 2,000 years without once - NOT ONCE - experiencing discrimination. Indian Jews saw the swastika every single day for 2,000 years as they walked to work, to the bazaar, or to their friends house. Jews in India were not restricted from any profession or from any neighborhood. Jews in India served in business, in the military, and even in the courts of Indian kings. In fact, an Indian Jew was also one of the earliest actresses in Bollywood.

Then white people discover us and invent the "Aryan race", a complete fucking fabrication based on their terror at realizing how unthinkably ancient India is and how horrific it might be that Sanskrit originated the "Indo-European" language family, and everything goes to hell for the first time.

I have immense disgust and disdain for everyone who continues to conflate the Indian swastika, which exclusively belongs to Hindus, Jews, and Buddhists (Sikhs have the right to use it but typically don't), with Nazi Germany and white people's obsession with the fictional "Aryan race". Yes, I'm looking at all of you occultists who buy into that Aryan shit, many of you white supremacists are right here on this forum.

I have immense disgust and disdain for everyone who continues to conflate the Indian swastika with various pinwheel symbols from other country.

Not only was our unique crooked cross appropriated, but so was its beautiful and auspicious Sanskrit name.

And the Palestinians, who viciously hate Hindus and talk shit about our polytheist practices, till today have the rank audacity to draw swastikas on doors to "shame" Jews. They should just slap themselves because they are the ones who are being revealed and shamed here.

It is beyond unacceptable that the entirety of Indian history has been perverted and appropriated over the course of 100-150 years (since Victorians invented the "Aryan race" theory), and now a bunch of self-righteous fools think that This Is The Way Things Have Always Been. I have been disgusted by Western Pagans who have told me to my face that the swastika will never be "redeemed" in my lifetime, while they fucking go ahead and USE it in their Norse rituals.

Fuck all of you who perpetuate this lie. I previously actually shared Hindu books on this forum. Want to know why I deleted my MEGA links? Because I saw the racists. I saw what kind of people are out there and what kind of agendas they have towards my heritage.

Sorry but the historic. linguistic, archaeological and genetic evidence far overules any Indian nationalist ranting on the issue of the Indus Valley Civilisation being aptly named ( as it was a civilisation and it was in the Indus Valley ! ) , the vedas clearly being composed way before the writers of it ever set foot in the Indus valley and the issue of IE languages .

I have EVER only heard this type of rant from Indian nationalists , not from anyone or anywhere else in the world .

And now ... insisting YOU ( who ever 'you' are ... meaning you seem to be claiming you have some presence or connection to IVC ) and 'your' swastika is owned by 'Indians' only and everyone else ripped it off ... even people that used it historically before them .

However I am sure any such science, academic study and writing or any proof is gonna make a difference against any nationalistic patriotic fueled ranting .... because ranting is the way to go nowadays .

Post automatically merged: Wednesday at 11:29 PM

The fact that a Neo-Nazi replied to this thread disengaging the swastika from its Hindu origins, and that this person and many like him have posts all over this forum without being banned, tells you how normalized this amnesia has become. The only other viewpoint you got was from an equally brainwashed leftist who thinks Neo-Nazis are the only people who use swastikas.

I'm logging out again. The occult community deserves to burn to ashes.

Nope . A simple cross with an angeled end on each arm , is one of the odest symboils .... no one owns it .... not even those Indians that created 1/2 the worlds languages and spread civilisation everywhere since year 1

In a way , its like a soft expression of what the Nazis were claiming about Aryans and Germans .

if people are not aware of this Indian nationalist fallcy ... here you go ;

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Post automatically merged: Wednesday at 11:43 PM

Disregard anything @Firetree has to say about the Vedic religion. He doesn't have a clue.

"If something is ancient, extraordinary or foundational, somehow it must have originated in Europe or at the very least be explained through a European lens."

I suggest people regard THAT statement . IVC did not originate in Europe . I also study ( and have friends that still practice ) ancient Australian traditions , that certainly did not originate in Europe . I have specialist study in BMAC archaeology , that certainly did not originate in Europe . Its a new ( entered the record as recently as the 60s ) 'originating world culture - along with Nile Valley IVC, China, Mesopotamia WAAAAY before even a concept of Europe !

I am also a bit of a fanatical Egyptology ,,, no Europe there .

In fact you make a lame and hopeless claim about me that can be easily dispelled if any one cares to read any of the in depth posts I make .

All of a sudden I am some sort of Euro fan boy because I dared to dispel your illusive fantasies based on race, ego and fake history mixed in with 'proud' nationalism .

India dont own no 'swastika' and if you do want to own it , try spelling it with a V not a German W , then you will have the correct Sanskrit term ... which means ; ' good or auspicious' .

Post automatically merged: Wednesday at 11:53 PM

Samarra bowl was from the Sumerian age they to used the symbol so if we are comparing ages of the symbol & origin than it's a Sumerian created symbol from 4000BC it could be even older than that.

Post automatically merged: Wednesday at 3:48 AM

I enjoy creating these threads to see the levels people are on & they are engaging cause they are not typical questions that have been asked before here multiple times it's good to push the envelope & expand your current understanding of things.

I think its impossible to tell who created it .... its a cross with bent arms on the end , the four directions, the four winds , the sun , a whirling force ... etc

...

 

[Kepler]

Black then White are all I see in my infancy
Red and Yellow then came to be
Reaching out to me
Lets me see

It was observing northern circumpolar stars during on time solar midnight Liber Resh adoration over the course of a year that I first noticed the seasonal position of The Big Dipper. How that asterism appeared as an arm of a swastika. From there new connections to the swastika's relationship with the Lamp from these celestial qualities around the axis mundi became apparent leading to understanding of my Magical Lamp's engineering.

With geometry the swastika can encode the calendar motions of the heavens and earth. Day and Year. Elemental attribution. Cycles of revolution for evolution. Life. Diversity. Equity...

There's culture warrior fashionistas that use selections of the Holocaust for their own ends like suppressing others discussing the Swastika in this sense. But their fascist motivations are transparent.

Spiral out...

 

[Ananda]

ArchonLynx said:
I enjoy creating these threads to see the levels people are on & they are engaging cause they are not typical questions that have been asked before here multiple times it's good to push the envelope & expand your current understanding of things

You've done a shit job of defending your position. You mean to say that you've got nothing going on in your life. You post controversial things that attract people like Firetree like flies to feces, and then you don't do much to defend your thesis. I'll put you on ignore and try to avoid browsing these forums.

Post automatically merged: Thursday at 4:24 PM

Sorry but the historic. linguistic, archaeological and genetic evidence far overules any Indian nationalist ranting on the issue of the Indus Valley Civilisation being aptly named ( as it was a civilisation and it was in the Indus Valley ! ) , the vedas clearly being composed way before the writers of it ever set foot in the Indus valley and the issue of IE languages .

The 'aryan invasion' of 1500 BCE was defended with the same confidence a few decades ago.

None ever claimed that the Indus valley civilization predates the Vedas. And the Indus valley settlement is just only one small place in the northwest of India. India is full of ancient cities. If the government could get it's shit together, a few more excavations would make things more certain.

I pointed out to Firetree in my previous posts that one has to have darbha grass, rice, and coconuts (among many other things) in order to conduct a proper vedic fire sacrifice. I'm not not a brahmin, but orthodox brahmins would say that only a person who has been born a brahmin is capable of pronouncing the vedas properly, without which the recitation would cause negative effects. Tantra and vedic fire sacrifices are exacting in their requirements. Darbha grass, rice and coconuts are found only in subtropical Asia.

I also pointed out that of all the hundreds of sacred sites recommended for pilgrimage by the vedic religion, almost all of them are in present-day India, and none in Iran. Firetree completely ignored all this.

According to the itihaasas and puranas, Vishnu incarnated as a very dark skinned person twice (Rama and Krishna) on earth. How does that support the european origin of the vedic religion?

The vedic religion itself says that Bharata (present day India, and parts of pakistan) is the only karma bhoomi, and all others are merely bhoga bhoomis. Which is to say that it is a place where one can reach liberation or the worst of hells quickly there.

Theravada buddhism (the one closest to what the Gautama Buddha actually taught, says some something similar - "
The majjhimadesa is the place where Buddhas, paccekabuddhas, cakkavatis and other great and noble beings are born (AN-a 1:170).
(majjhimadesa is the middle country, Bharata)

I suppose the Brahmins (you know, the ones who actually preserved and chanted the vedas) and Buddhist monks of yore were hysterical indian nationalists.

Sorry, the world is magickal and this is an occult forum. I have no doubt Bharata influenced "1/2 the worlds languages and spread civilisation".

 

[Firetree]

You've done a shit job of defending your position. You mean to say that you've got nothing going on in your life. You post controversial things that attract people like Firetree like flies to feces, and then you don't do much to defend your thesis. I'll put you on ignore and try to avoid browsing these forums.

Post automatically merged: Thursday at 4:24 PM

The 'aryan invasion' of 1500 BCE was defended with the same confidence a few decades ago.

None ever claimed that the Indus valley civilization predates the Vedas. And the Indus valley settlement is just only one small place in the northwest of India. India is full of ancient cities. If the government could get it's shit together, a few more excavations would make things more certain.

I pointed out to Firetree in my previous posts that one has to have darbha grass, rice, and coconuts (among many other things) in order to conduct a proper vedic fire sacrifice. I'm not not a brahmin, but orthodox brahmins would say that only a person who has been born a brahmin is capable of pronouncing the vedas properly, without which the recitation would cause negative effects. Tantra and vedic fire sacrifices are exacting in their requirements. Darbha grass, rice and coconuts are found only in subtropical Asia.

I also pointed out that of all the hundreds of sacred sites recommended for pilgrimage by the vedic religion, almost all of them are in present-day India, and none in Iran. Firetree completely ignored all this.

According to the itihaasas and puranas, Vishnu incarnated as a very dark skinned person twice (Rama and Krishna) on earth. How does that support the european origin of the vedic religion?

The vedic religion itself says that Bharata (present day India, and parts of pakistan) is the only karma bhoomi, and all others are merely bhoga bhoomis. Which is to say that it is a place where one can reach liberation or the worst of hells quickly there.

Theravada buddhism (the one closest to what the Gautama Buddha actually taught, says some something similar - "
The majjhimadesa is the place where Buddhas, paccekabuddhas, cakkavatis and other great and noble beings are born (AN-a 1:170).
(majjhimadesa is the middle country, Bharata)

I suppose the Brahmins (you know, the ones who actually preserved and chanted the vedas) and Buddhist monks of yore were hysterical indian nationalists.

Sorry, the world is magickal and this is an occult forum. I have no doubt Bharata influenced "1/2 the worlds languages and spread civilisation".

Absolutley NONE of that indicates India owning the 'swastika' in any way ..... you are just politically ranting .

if you want to discuss this off topic subject make a new thread where I will answer and discount each point you made above .

But do not bring Indian nationalist political rants into other subjects - make another thread about it - if it even fits into this site anywhere ?

Post automatically merged: Friday at 1:20 AM

Black then White are all I see in my infancy
Red and Yellow then came to be
Reaching out to me
Lets me see

It was observing northern circumpolar stars during on time solar midnight Liber Resh adoration over the course of a year that I first noticed the seasonal position of The Big Dipper. How that asterism appeared as an arm of a swastika. From there new connections to the swastika's relationship with the Lamp from these celestial qualities around the axis mundi became apparent leading to understanding of my Magical Lamp's engineering.

With geometry the swastika can encode the calendar motions of the heavens and earth. Day and Year. Elemental attribution. Cycles of revolution for evolution. Life. Diversity. Equity...

There's culture warrior fashionistas that use selections of the Holocaust for their own ends like suppressing others discussing the Swastika in this sense. But their fascist motivations are transparent.

Spiral out...

Interesting ! I can see how those 'rotations' can relate to the symbol , maybe also it has something to to do with Draco ?

Its very different for me 'my pole' ( during similar observations ) is a 'circle of nothingness ' , a 'ring' with no marked center

 

[Kepler]

Interesting ! I can see how those 'rotations' can relate to the symbol , maybe also it has something to to do with Draco ?

Its very different for me 'my pole' ( during similar observations ) is a 'circle of nothingness ' , a 'ring' with no marked center

There is a complex polar relationship between Draco and The Big Dipper. Seperately the constellation Draco has the north ecliptic pole(NEP) as shown in the image below. Also Ursa Major, Draco, Cassiopeia, and Auriga are zenith at the solstices and equinoxes as shown by the colure meridians around the north celestial pole(NCP). Aligning the celestial and ecliptic spheres(or planes[new model for rising on to operate in]) for mapping together.

The circle of nothingness in my global astrological magick is related to 56°S latitude crossing the globe with no landmass to define the border of The Well of Souls. The lines for the Galactic and Supergalactic spheres(planes) are helpful here, but not in this image, though intersect at Alpha Centauri.

In both images the stars are limited to 3.30 magnitude.

Post automatically merged: Friday at 5:38 PM

limiting magnitude was to show the prominence of the Dipper stars as an arm of celestial swastika. The image itself to show how the Dipper is aligned to the quarters during equinox and solstice at solar midnight.

 

[Firetree]

This particular swastika

.....

 

[Kepler]

This particular swastika

.....

And what? Are you just saying you understand the constellation makes the shape of a swastika? Use your words.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 1:05 AM

This particular swastika

.....

.....

L

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 1:40 AM

That particular swastika is a good example of what I noticed over the course of a year 2017/2018 during solar midnight Resh. The link has that image upload dated 2023. It's cool to see that others noticed after.

I first designed the following swastika in 2018 and posted it with comments about the celestial appearance. Anyhow...

The colours of this particular swastika would align this way with seasonal solar midnight positioning.

 

[Rynnshng]

A beautiful symbol, to which has been attached various human meaning. Banned here in Australia.

My Temple, (THEM) employ a symbol known as the Thrasz, which has been described a swastika, but selectively by reactionaries who know nothing of our intent. The ONA used a symbol known as the 'Cosmic Wheel' for its Temple 88 nexion, which had scythe blades rather than arms, but it was not a conscious symbol, it merely described the changing of the aeons through cyclical force. National Socialism suffers from its attribution to Race - which is a simplistic, fatal means to assess other human beings, yet that base prejudice is shared by many other forms in the world today, equally virulent, yet many of them protected. Naturally, many have come to associate the Swastika as a famous scapegoat for Racism and a reminder that most of us will never live through of the devastation of World War. Such was never meant to happen again if we all just stood on an 'X'. Most of us believed it. But attribution to a single cause for complex events is the sign of the ostrich who wishes to bury their head in the sand, the simpleton who is trained only to grasp what he is told, or the fanatic who clings to his truths for ontological security of their own identity.

THEM's symbol warns of the power of forces like National Socialism arising through human complacency through refusal to see the early signs that demonize and lead to genocide. Thus, did we reject the ONA's creation of 'mundanes' and, somewhat ironically, the claim of an 'us vs. them' dichotomy which is as weak as good/evil or the codex of morality imposed on societies. For through that lens, ONA only repeated the mistakes of the past in basic, destructive groupings that it claimed to want to overcome. And thus, the Thrasz features a cold draconic eye at its centre, the rune Isa, indicating conscious awareness of the power of forms and forces to create and destroy. Because symbols carry intent, they are not inherently good or bad, poor reasoning conflates the two by sympathetic magic or lack of discernment, a form of mesmerism that easily affects some more than others. Moreover, it is not that the Swastika is more evil, negative, suggestive of racism or holocaust than any other symbol regardless of its use by the NSDAP - countries flags are the same, all built on the foundations of shedding blood and rampant human cruelty and suffering to be finally hoisted in triumph and wave in the wind, their terrorism forgotten through the lullaby of Nationalism. In that perspective, the United Nations which often features all its flags together, is a romanticized celebration of global genocides as 'Unity'. The Cross is not banned either, despite having a far higher kill count and atrocity accumulation over aeons vs the 30 or so years of the NSDAP's existence. And that is simply because, Power is Permission.

In recent times, following the reactionary banning of the Swastika ("and anything resembling it") THEM switched its symbol to the Star of David, again, with a draconic eye in the centre, and again warning, about human complacency and refusal to see early signs that demonize and lead to genocide. And even if 'genocide' is contested, atrocities upon atrocities. Even 'counter-terrorism' is laden with biases, hemmed by the imagination of Realism, going after Neo-Nazis while multiple actors engage in terror far beyond anything the Oi could do - and using descriptions of what humans are doing that only serve to reinforce the powerful and disenfranchise the disaffected by gross incompetence in human governance and its domestic and international policies - such as excess immigration without adequate institutions and resources to support them, to establish an easy voter base to stay in power. Deeper than that, the destruction of countries to bring Jewish diaspora back to their homeland through Aliya - a foreign policy (heavily documented) implemented by Israel since at least 1948, see, Epstein, AIPAC, Shivat Zion, O9A, The Mossad, Royal Arch Freemasonry and so on. All different forms of web with the same goal.

Banning of the Swastika is a knee-jerk band-aid using a scapegoat to blame the fallout from corruption and destruction by international powers, a paid, institutionalized pretense NS was the real issue - while the Israeli's are now over 80,000 dead, mostly children. I think NS and ONA combined are responsible for about 30 murders in Australia. 30 vs 80,000 and counting - and counting is never clear in war. The vital issue of symbolism regarding the swastika is hypocrisy - clams of its evilness can well be levelled at it all day long - because it's easy - it seems not that many people have the stomach or brains to look deeper. Many that did, are now dead. Murdered by Israel. 270+ journalists belonging to the brave men and women of Al-Jazeera who gave their lives to report on the reality in that morally bankrupt arena for instance. Again, power is permission, and hypocrisy is a religion. People seem to forget the same powers that define war, define terrorism, and always selectively. Sutter's o9a, ToB, Atomwaffen, 764 and so on, paid for by the FBI (and still in payment) are a great case in point - as the sovereign immunity of States allows such actors to escape prosecution simply because the States decide thousands if not hundreds of thousands or millions of children being hurt is an acceptable collateral to serve their purpose.

Eventually, THEM found the Star of David too distasteful (even to display as a warning) and adopted a new symbol without any arms or angles and that is the Cup-and-Ring motif (with our central eye) that we identified present in identical petroglyphs carved in about 90% of the world and continue to research with fascination about what that suggests for world history (much of which we reject), and which symbol raises far more interesting questions for us than whether the Magi or the Sinister will win the magical war for hearts and minds with their propaganda or their various symbols. I think human beings need a lot of re-education after their severe brainwashing for aeons by the Magi as to who is the enemy. And what an enemy, is. Even today, speaking frankly, I have to save my posts because they're deleted wherever I go by those who wish to preserve and protect the status quo and its hypocrisies.

But the cyclical motion suggested by wheeling arm symbols is represented in everything natural, as we describe when explaining the Thrasz - so it is only a matter of time before the Swastika rises again, and again, and again eternally as a logical conclusion for representation.

 

[Shade]

I would argue that the way a symbol is used affects and changes its meaning. Yes, it's historically been used as a symbol of good fortune, balance, and all sorts of other good things. It has ALSO been historically used as a symbol of hatred, fascism, and genocide.

Symbols are not unchangeable things handed down to humanity from a greater power. Symbols are created by humans and hold only the meanings given to them. Given that the swastika has been given both meanings, it holds both meanings.

If you're using it in its original context, with respect to the cultures it came from, and practicing within those cultures, that's fine. But it's ridiculous and closed-minded to call anyone who sees it as a symbol of hate "brainwashed." Your point of view requires you to completely ignore a large and important part of human history, and as dark and evil as that part of history is, it's still important to acknowledge it and its effects.

Furthermore, the use of this symbol by the Nazis is not exclusively the domain of history. It happens in the modern day too. When there are groups actively using this symbol to represent themselves and preaching hate, bigotry, fascism, and genocide under its banner, it's completely irresponsible to ignore that meaning. Modern neo-Nazi groups still use this symbol.

Counter point… even current gangs recognize that they do not own a symbol, If you are a neutron (no gang ties) during processing they will still flag you as a gang member and in practice, If you have a black diamond, a 5 point star, 6 point star, something akin to a pitchfork (like the Algiz) a 13 and many others it’s supposed to be burned or cut off.
HOWEVER… In prison with killers, all manner of gang ties, none of the Latin gangs, none of the Folks or Peoples Nation typically care, they will ask about it, If it has any legitimate ties outside of their culture and it’s not a tie to loyalty to any gang but rather has deeper significance they respect it unless it’s a dumb kid trying to prove himself
In which he usually will get checked by a higher up.
Yet they have no reason to, as they wouldn’t ever see the light of day outside the prison walls regardless if they decide to cut it off or burn it off it makes no different to them,
If “the worst of humanity” can have that kind of understanding and awareness and care about context then it’s time we stop giving symbols like the swastika the meaning that it was twisted into, stop giving things power over you, if what you can or cannot wear is decided because it worries others it speaks of their lack of control. IMO it shouldn’t be worn to provoke people on purpose but it shouldn’t evoided just so a few feel safe when it’s a symbol that spans the world.

Anything you hide and demonize the more power you give it, it’s a concept called psychological weight and it applies to many aspects of life, to get past phobias and fears exposure therapy is used,
Then”bad mean symbol” only hurts you if you let it.

There is a balance be mindful how it may reflect on you but as long as you have a foundation built on positivity, don’t let anyone claim you’re being hateful as that is simply not true, “you shall know them by their fruits” not by what they see.
“Sow good seeds on good soil” have a foundation conducive to growth. Burying a symbol doesn’t kill the symbol, it gives it lore, that lore becomes infamous legend and lets the symbol grow in power as something to fear.
Don’t let fear, doubt, aka the adversary win.
People fear what they do not understand so bring the original meaning back to life.