[Help] Close-Up Street Magic?

[Xenophon]

RE: Close-Up Street Magic?
SUBTOPIC: Do we all understand what is meant when we say:

• Witchcraft?
• The Occult?
• The Supernatural?
• Magic?
• A Higher Power?

⁜→ Xenophon, Robert Ramsay, et al,

These terms are not interchangeable. The term "supernatural (for instance) does not conflict with either "Religion" or "Science." Simply put, all supernatural means → is that an event or observation transcends the current laws known to apply to the universe (as we understand them today). Science neither attempts to explain or disprove religious or unexplainable belief systems using the Scientific Method.
.


(THUMBNAIL PERCEPTION)

I see no reason to challenge the hypothesis (supra) as I don't see any real and tangible evidence to suggest that it has no foundation.

You might be interested to know that the term "Metaphysical" is a belief in the occult - the hidden - the mysterious, → or the supernatural; it tends to superstition but is very religious.* This belief gives its substance over to the building of a perfect consciousness and body (typified by the rebuilding of the Temple and Jerusalem's wall) by obedience to the law of God (signing the covenant). The concept of the supernatural is a theoretical tool that enables us to envisage the union of man with God.**

These are rather tricky concepts to wrap your head around. While there are some blank staqtements that are rediculas, there are some inferences that can be drawn. IF you (actually) "see" an apparition THEN there is some form of energy at play. The question becomes a matter of propagation and reception. That is the point at which an investigatory effort is required.
________________________________
* The Metaphysical Bible Dictionary, Charles Fillmore Reference Library Series, Published By Unity Books (Unity School of Christianity)
pg 363
** Encyclopedia of Christian Theology / Jean-Yves Lacoste, editor. Published in 2005 by Routledge 270 Madison Avenue New York, NY 10016
© Presses Universitaires de France, 1998 and 1999, pg 1534

Most Respectfully,
R

I don't see that I conflated Withcraft, Occult, Supernatural, Magick, Higher Power. As far as I know only post-adolescents trying to p-off Babtist pastor Daddy use the first; "recovering" drunks/addicts use the fifth. Nor do I use the third since I find the term tends to mean simply "What we do not understand." As for occult and magick, the former is a subject area, the latter a (large and loose) set of prcatices. So skip the lecture.

"Metaphysics"? It's a term purloined from secular philosophy to mean what ever New Age Norm & Nita want it to mean. The old tale is that Aristotle's rather disorganized notes on "first philosophy" were filed after his Physics on the shelf at Alexandria's library, literally "meta ta physika." The name stuck. Then came unglued when latter-day logo-brigands came a pillaging.

Post automatically merged: Feb 24, 2024

There might well be realms acausal. In which case it were more accurate to style them acausal rather than supernatural. The former term has the virtue of being descriptive.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Close-Up Street Magic?
SUBTOPIC: Acasual (Without a Cause)
⁜→ Xenophon, et al,

Thank you for your insight.
.

So skip the lecture.

(COMMENT)

I was only trying to contribute to the discussion. I don't engage in ad hominem • meant to be argumentative or fallacious. If I inadvertently offended you, I sincerely apologize.

There might well be realms acausal. In which case it were more accurate to style them acausal rather than supernatural. The former term has the virtue of being descriptive.

(COMMENT)

Acasual is in direct conflict with the Principle of Sufficient Reason (PSR). The first (causal) is a Quantum Mechanics (QM) term that requires a measure of faith in a spontaneous development without a Scientific or Religious explanation. The second (PSR) is a product that is dependent on the ability to develop an explanation based on evidence.

(∑ Ω)

In the future, please just skip over any contribution I might make. Looking back through the record, I am contributing far too many comments.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Xenophon]

RE: Close-Up Street Magic?
SUBTOPIC: Acasual (Without a Cause)
⁜→ Xenophon, et al,

Thank you for your insight.
.

(COMMENT)

I was only trying to contribute to the discussion. I don't engage in ad hominem • meant to be argumentative or fallacious. If I inadvertently offended you, I sincerely apologize.


(COMMENT)

Acasual is in direct conflict with the Principle of Sufficient Reason (PSR). The first (causal) is a Quantum Mechanics (QM) term that requires a measure of faith in a spontaneous development without a Scientific or Religious explanation. The second (PSR) is a product that is dependent on the ability to develop an explanation based on evidence.

(∑ Ω)

In the future, please just skip over any contribution I might make. Looking back through the record, I am contributing far too many comments.

Most Respectfully,
R

Sorry---I misunderstood.

You should post more, not less. Your stuff is generally good (even when I the obtuse miss the point.)

 

[HoldAll]

These last comments are way off-topic. No matter whether god or the supernatural exist, I was interested in applied magic in everyday life, not in metaphysical speculation. Here is an example from Liber Kaos by Peter J. Carroll:

The "moon glance" technique is often effective. Basically one briefly closes the eyes
and momentarily visualises a lunar crescent in silver behind the eyes with the horns of
the moon projecting out of each side of the head behind the eyes. Then one glances
into the eyes of a potential lover whilst visualising a silver radiance beaming from
your eyes to theirs. This manoeuvre also has the effect of dilating the pupils and
usually causes an involuntary smile. Both of these are universal sexual signals, the
first of which acts subconsciously.

And no ethical discussions, please, it's just an innocent prelude to flirting, IMHO, or a PUA technique at worst.

What I'm saying it's all very exciting to be able to embark on astral journeys and to converse with spirits in the comfort of one's living room temple but then be utterly powerless when confronted with unpleasant everyday situations. Magic shouldn't be impractical, and I am not talking about enlisting magical help to find a parking spot either. So I'm asking again: has anyone succeeded in winning the trust of people and silencing random assholes? There is not much about this issue in books; I seem to remember something about imagening a blue line issueing from one's solar plexus and using it to reach out to the offending person or something like that.

Post automatically merged: Feb 24, 2024

@Robert Ramsay seems to be the only one to have had any success in this arena. Are magicians really an otherwordly lot sitting complacently in their astral ivory towers? If so, I may have hit a nerve there... ok, I shouldn't complain, if I don't like it, it's incumbent on me to define my own style along different lines, I guess. Mind you, I'm still only at the meditation & LBRP stage, it's way to early for me to complain.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

As John Constantine put it: "I'll tell you the ultimate secret of magic. Any **** can do it."
I like to think that my theoretical studies of magic have given me useful insights into the practical aspects, so for small stuff like the "street magic" we're talking about, you don't need to be dressed up in robes, face East etc.
@Xenophon talked about "spontaneous jolts of will" and I think that is exactly the kind of thing you experience when doing this kind of magic. A flicker of the same feeling you get when creating art, and for the same reason.

 

[Xenophon]

These last comments are way off-topic. No matter whether god or the supernatural exist, I was interested in applied magic in everyday life, not in metaphysical speculation. Here is an example from Liber Kaos by Peter J. Carroll:

The "moon glance" technique is often effective. Basically one briefly closes the eyes
and momentarily visualises a lunar crescent in silver behind the eyes with the horns of
the moon projecting out of each side of the head behind the eyes. Then one glances
into the eyes of a potential lover whilst visualising a silver radiance beaming from
your eyes to theirs. This manoeuvre also has the effect of dilating the pupils and
usually causes an involuntary smile. Both of these are universal sexual signals, the
first of which acts subconsciously.

And no ethical discussions, please, it's just an innocent prelude to flirting, IMHO, or a PUA technique at worst.

What I'm saying it's all very exciting to be able to embark on astral journeys and to converse with spirits in the comfort of one's living room temple but then be utterly powerless when confronted with unpleasant everyday situations. Magic shouldn't be impractical, and I am not talking about enlisting magical help to find a parking spot either. So I'm asking again: has anyone succeeded in winning the trust of people and silencing random assholes? There is not much about this issue in books; I seem to remember something about imagening a blue line issueing from one's solar plexus and using it to reach out to the offending person or something like that.

Post automatically merged: Feb 24, 2024

@Robert Ramsay seems to be the only one to have had any success in this arena. Are magicians really an otherwordly lot sitting complacently in their astral ivory towers? If so, I may have hit a nerve there... ok, I shouldn't complain, if I don't like it, it's incumbent on me to define my own style along different lines, I guess. Mind you, I'm still only at the meditation & LBRP stage, it's way to early for me to complain.

How is "silencing random assholes" a weightier matter than finding a parking space? I'm not trolling here. I just don't see the scale of urgency at play. Maybe I'm too far off along the spectrum, but the jolts of daily life rarely if ever seem to rise to calling for a magic response. It strikes me a good bit like flashing a gun because f****** Popeye's ran out of Caliente Chicken 'n Grease semmitches. Maybe I'm just dense.

 

[HoldAll]

How is "silencing random assholes" a weightier matter than finding a parking space? I'm not trolling here. I just don't see the scale of urgency at play. Maybe I'm too far off along the spectrum, but the jolts of daily life rarely if ever seem to rise to calling for a magic response. It strikes me a good bit like flashing a gun because f****** Popeye's ran out of Caliente Chicken 'n Grease semmitches. Maybe I'm just dense.

It's not really a weightier matter, it's just that influencing people seems more like direct proof of magic to me. Besides "finding a parking space" seems to have become a cliché for empty boasts of magical power, or so I've read.

 

[Vandheer]

I have some successes with infusing rooms with intention.

I have made people leave the house via that method. You may want to look at chapter 4 of Initiation Into Hermetics for it.

I am not sure if this counts as instant however. But its damn quick.

 

[HoldAll]

You may want to look at chapter 4 of Initiation Into Hermetics for it.

I was really afraid that that damn IIH book may become important some day… I loathe Bardon's schoolmarmish moralistic style but you're right, Chapter 4 is pure gold. Now I'll only have to find a way of weaselling out of the exercises in the chapters that go before it.

Seriously now, I think the real question I was asking was how to gain (and store) palpable personal power and to have it on tap at all times, so to speak, being able to bring this power to bear spontaneously and on the fly. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that such an ability will probably take years and years of practise.

Anyway, thanks for the book recommendation!

 

[Robert Ramsay]

It's not really a weightier matter, it's just that influencing people seems more like direct proof of magic to me. Besides "finding a parking space" seems to have become a cliché for empty boasts of magical power, or so I've read.

You are correct, in that influencing people is harder than influencing things, because people have the ability to throw 'noise' against your 'signal'. But influencing a person uses no different magical ability than finding a parking space; it's just harder.

Maybe invoking the "secret powers of the universe" to find a parking space is offensive to people's asthetics of magic

And I agree with @Xenophon - why bring a nuke to a knife fight?

 

[BragR]

Now, another thought has crossed my mind. Is there a discussion topic on practicing M solely mentally in the public sphere? This would involve exploring what works, what doesn't, sharing successful experiences, and exchanging tips and tricks for mental practice.

 

[stratamaster78]

I was really afraid that that damn IIH book may become important some day… I loathe Bardon's schoolmarmish moralistic style but you're right, Chapter 4 is pure gold. Now I'll only have to find a way of weaselling out of the exercises in the chapters that go before it.

Seriously now, I think the real question I was asking was how to gain (and store) palpable personal power and to have it on tap at all times, so to speak, being able to bring this power to bear spontaneously and on the fly. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that such an ability will probably take years and years of practise.

Anyway, thanks for the book recommendation!

I’m not sure this type of instant Magick is attainable.

I mean I guess could be attainable in theory but it would probably not be reliable or would maybe take decades to attain or take someone who is just naturally skilled.

I have the book Instant Magick by Penzcak but I don’t really remember what it covers other than I believe there are some exercises in mapping certain things to Hand Mudra’s that trigger on the fly.

That’s similar to what I would call instant but not literally instant.

A person can create a Paper Sigil that is charged with a certain Magickal action as if it were a Talisman and keep a few in their pocket for out in the real world needs.

Then when the act is needed burn the Paper Sigil to instantly release that Magickal act.

Though it could be tricky finding some quick way to light a sigil on fire in public.

Plus just because the Magickal action was released it doesn’t mean it will manifest instantly either.

For me what Magick does is influence Probability shifts and depending on countless factors it takes time for those probability shifts to coalesce and manifest in the physical.

 

[Vandheer]

I’m not sure this type of instant Magick is attainable.

This goes into the realm of siddhis indeed. My opinion is that these are attainable but by the time you get there, you will be in a state that you won't use such siddhis. By that point there are bigger fish to fry.

I don't think its that easy to replicate without decades spent. Once in a while should be doable.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

I’m not sure this type of instant Magick is attainable.

I mean I guess could be attainable in theory but it would probably not be reliable or would maybe take decades to attain or take someone who is just naturally skilled.

I have the book Instant Magick by Penzcak but I don’t really remember what it covers other than I believe there are some exercises in mapping certain things to Hand Mudra’s that trigger on the fly.

For me what Magick does is influence Probability shifts and depending on countless factors it takes time for those probability shifts to coalesce and manifest in the physical.

Hand gestures can be discrete; I use them all the time for passing through crowds or becoming 'invisible' (really 'unnoticed' of course)

At the root of it, magic is the action of your mind. If you can build a repertoire of thought forms and discreet gestures that tie into your belief system, then you can do 'instant' magic.

Obviously, the proper advice is 'Divine short, enchant long' so there is a limited class of results you can achieve this way, but (say) shutting up someone's bawling kid, or getting them to leave the place you're in, is within those limitations.

One can describe magic as influencing probability, but the thing to remember is that you do not change the world, you map yourself onto the outcome where it is changed

Think of it as there being a version of you where the magical result was a success. When the magic is successful, you have become that person.

Post automatically merged: Feb 26, 2024

This goes into the realm of siddhis indeed. My opinion is that these are attainable but by the time you get there, you will be in a state that you won't use such siddhis. By that point there are bigger fish to fry.

I don't think its that easy to replicate without decades spent. Once in a while should be doable.

It's not that hard, but you don't need it very often and it has a limited class of application.

 

[Vandheer]

It's not that hard, but you don't need it very often and it has a limited class of application.

I wasn't really refering to making someone leave as siddhi though. I should have stated better.

If thats a siddhi, world has no more mysteries.

Simple gesture/mudra applications seem to work. I am sure voice commands could also. You already pointed that out.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

Oh I see - you were talking about being able to do ANY type of magic instantly! Sorry, I misunderstood

Yeah, that would be a kicker

 

[Vandheer]

Oh I see - you were talking about being able to do ANY type of magic instantly! Sorry, I misunderstood

Yeah, that would be a kicker

Pretty much. The hot girl over there? Snap of fingers and we are in bed? Rich guy on the end of the block? His money is mine. Like that kind.

But that is reserved for mythologies and the reality, the one I know, is more boring than that.

Let me not divert more here

 

[HoldAll]

Now, another thought has crossed my mind. Is there a discussion topic on practicing M solely mentally in the public sphere? This would involve exploring what works, what doesn't, sharing successful experiences, and exchanging tips and tricks for mental practice.

That's why I asked. It's a bit like @Taudefindi's telekinesis project - I am just curious what others think or have experienced themselves.

I confess I may have this romantic image of the powerful sorcerer who passes largely unnoticed but possesses charisma and weird powers if he needs them, a bit like Carlos Castaneda's Don Juan - people skills on steroids, so to speak. I already suspected that years of mind training (viz. Bardon) will be required, and I accept that even then there are no guarantees. It's not an obsession of mine, currently not even a side quest.

Or it may be that I secretly think that magical training should give me a practical edge over my fellow human beings (just as any newly acquired skill would, really), improved pattern recognition, better memory, more intelligence, in short, it should turn me into the opposite of the stereotypical unworldly occult space cadet. Does meditation enhance my concentration? Maybe a bit, too early to tell. Does the LBRP do anything at all? Not that I've noticed yet although I suspect it may be a beginner's stepping stone for greater things to come. At the moment I'm just glad I moved out of the armchair at last and begun to find out what's possible (in general and for me personally).

 

[Challis]

Sleep. Go back to sleep. The family member who always wakes up in the middle of the night no longer does. No noticeable lifestyle, medical or dietary changes.

 

[HoldAll]

Sleep. Go back to sleep. The family member who always wakes up in the middle of the night no longer does. No noticeable lifestyle, medical or dietary changes.

Wrong thread??