"Crossing the Kavir" or Why Wintruz has entered a Sufi Order

[Wintruz]

In the early days, I never understood why most of the elders of the Western Left Hand Path eventually "abandoned ship" and moved into some strata of, what I would have then called, "the Right Hand Path". Shortly after I first found my way to the threshold, the Schrecks began their on-going journey into Buddhism, taking much of the Temple of Set with them. By then, Myatt had long been a Muslim, disavowing all other methods of change, telling would-be diabolists to turn to Allah. Aquino always maintained a spry "it was fun while it lasted" approach to his time with LaVey, but his own philosophy had moved far, far beyond "Satanism" and deeply into Plato, Gurdjieff and the de Lubiczs' theories on Egypt. LaVey was dead and, by most accounts (that is, those other than Peter Gilmore's), he died embittered and broke (not something most of us would knock a man for but which LaVey certainly would), a Norma Desmond-esque figure surrounded by relics of his glory days, unwilling to adapt to a world that had changed. Of the major public figures associated with the LHP, LaVey was the only one to maintain into old age the same essential worldview he had held at thirty.

Among non-public initiates, the turnover was even worse. Granted, a large number were neophytes who got scared and "repented", but there were as many in late stages of their work who left for pastures new. Interestingly, I do not recall any of these moving towards atheism or materialism. The pull was always towards some iteration of RHP religion, usually Buddhism, though Christianity and Islam were common destinations too. When this wasn’t a “backslide into orthodoxy,” I assumed it was motivated by something so personal as to be basically unintelligible to others — a common feature among serious magicians of every stripe. The thought never occurred to me that such a move might actually be the fulfilment of advanced LHP work. As time passed, I came to see that this was precisely the case.

For me, the methods I used were excellent at feeding desire. This is no small thing. If desire is strong enough, it can fuel fixed Will and Will, properly directed, can propel a person from a one of life's wrecks to someone respected in every room they walk in ("from tragic to magic"). This is appealing when one has unjustly lacked worldly success, been inhibited, or simply been given too little to fulfil their nature (and there are more than a few of us Leonine types around).

In these LHP locales, the "world"/society was taught to be a kind of proving ground for the magician, a test-of-strength which ensured that what one was working on had real-world application, avoiding the historical tendency of magicians to drift into their own subjective universe ("Impressive that you had an 'experience' invoking Raziel under Mercury but you can't pay your bills Ryan!"). Both of my LHP schools would expel those who were not achieving sufficiently in the wider world. As consciousness crystallised, one’s ability to master oneself naturally developed the qualities likely to lead to greater worldly power — commanding money, valuable skills, or trust from others. It's interesting that, despite the myth of Faust, much of LHP worldly advancement is actually about increasing responsibility ("responsibility to the responsible") rather than overnight fame or lottery wins.

In my case, because the suppressed energy that had accumulated throughout childhood and into my teens was so intense, the desire so impossibly enormous, when it met the LHP the result was explosive, especially for the first five or six years. By the time that orgy of being was over, the first of the LHP’s advanced lessons arrived: fulfilling desires increases the strength of desire, but the means that once fulfilled desire loses power. This is not dissimilar to a meth addict whose craving grows as the drug’s ability to satisfy diminishes. This raised troubling metaphysical questions: "Why can the world not fulfil us?" The deeper currents of the LHP offered an answer — consciousness is “non-natural,” and therefore indulgence in the world will never suffice. Where conventional religions teach that the world cannot fulfil the soul and counsel restraint so as to not amplify desire, the deep LHP taught to accept that the desire will not be resolved — that it will grow — and that the agony can become fuel for mastery. In the quiet corners of the LHP, there is a name for one who embodies this condition of unmet yearning as fuel for mastery: the Vampyre.

I lived as a Vampyre for so long, explored its facets in so many lights, that its oldest expressions became more and more the focus of my Work — for the states of consciousness behind the Vampyre were known with near-scientific precision in other times and places, when the European vampire was a still a dirty revenant rather than a beautiful creature of longing and the Western LHP did not yet exist. An encounter with Sufism, the school of yearning, was fated. In the words of Rumi and Ibn ʿArabi, in the figure of the Sufi, I saw the Vampyre again: burning with longing and desire, but with greater control and greater mastery in the alchemy that turns yearning into ascent. I saw one who could taste the ecstasies of the world and come away not jaded by what they could not give, but refreshed by what they reminded the soul of — one who did not feed from life in a panic to stave off death, but who embraced death to fully immerse in Life.

The change from blood to wine did not come easily. The energy loops that had long accumulated had to burn away. The addiction to mythos, to my own story, had to collapse. I wish I could say this was voluntary. In truth, I had played at the edges of Sufism for so long that it played back with me, bringing about a kind of inner collapse, as if to say: “You want Forever lion cub? Then you must truly die — die in this first fanāʾ of many to all that you think you are.” And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how I spent my Summer. Once I collected myself from the floor, I knocked at the door of three orders. The third one accepted me.

Provided that it’s asked with politeness and sanity (and doesn’t involve doxxing anyone), you may ask me anything you like and I will do my best to answer.

 

[Sabbatius]

I completely understand. I have been working with Russian Orthodox Rassophores, Stavrophores and Schema Monks for a while now. I have observed miracles, seen more Spirits and practiced more internal and external workings- with success, than with any Esoteric/Occult Order or Coven.

 

[BBBB]

Why? The answer I contribute is two-fold, at least. It is to the subject, not to any particular person here. I'll keep it to two points:

1. There is no LHP, as well as no RHP. Both are lies. At best they are misconceptions. You will know why if you practice on a real path enough.
Very often the public in the West would be fed two lies, so they could "chose" the one they like best. It's an ancient method of crowd control. Occult crowd is just like any other crowd, no smarter, same methods apply to them as to electorate of this and that political party. Two sheep folds: one for white sheep, one for black sheep. Still a sheep. Don't base on misconceptions or try to clear them as soon as possible, and you will have more chance of success.

2. One would gravitate toward their real preferences in life, regardless of what they state or even consciously try to do. Life circumstances align with person's real preference. This is so easy and works without fail. But since so many people who talk so much tend to be liars, they produce so many "philosophies", which are merely shades of untruth. And people try to find answers in that verbal mire, the swamp of records of speculations and interpretations, they end up picking something closer to what they feel like, abandoning the search for truth. And turning Muslim doesn't mean one will abandon dishonesty. It's not about saying the words of dedication. They say: "Every single human is born as a Muslim because they have innate Imaan. No one is born a disbeliever in God". So what exactly is the point of turning Muslim if you are already one?
But use the philosophies you pick, what you like, to get to know yourself better. What do you realy want?
Is it form or substance? Maybe you like LARPing, won't hold that against you as long as we all know it.
Recognise your real preferences, address them, work on them, not on their effects, and you will have real growth. This will also cover every other reason of failure, like personal flaws, vice, misinformation - those will fall off as you keep working on your integrity.

So,
we have people who take on false paths and who do it in a false way, serving their false selves, rather than transcending ignorance and becoming more real in the process. They try to turn any path into an advantage over other humans. Simplest way to gain an "edge" like that is to state they are an LHP/RHP adept, a witch, a Muslim, whatever to impress others and themselves. A dull edge, but might fool someone who doesn't look too close, like a gun replica might.
But they will avoid any actual change related to a path, except superficial, and because of that they will fail to produce results, for example, they won't demonstrate virtues and powers which come with the path.
This is instantly obvious to those who are on the path for real. For example, I would likely recognise if someone has Gnosis (not simply some experience) of Set or of Hekate (let's take only those two for now) but I will definitely recognise if someone has not, because that changes you.

Such change is the very thing a false self fears the most. When you know it, it's all so very simple about impostors. I don't care what baubles you wear or what names you call yourself. An impostor is recognisable by anyone who is truly on a path as you would recognise anything false. Sooner or later it happens. And the impostor would want to flee from those who recognised them as they are. They will need to find a place where they won't be scrutinised, so they will bar themselves out of any order where people do the work.

In nature some are impressive, some mimic impressive ones, because they can't be that, but among humans spiritual impostorship is disgusting, because we all can and suppose to be real. And honesty is a part of it. If one is wondering what "path" to chose LHP or RHP - chose the path of truth, examine your desires and preferences deeply, notice how it affects your life, and start directing your interest and change. This is the only path worth mentioning. You may take to gods and spirits, or not, that is not important. If you do that, paths will come to you. You won't be a beggar. If you know there is what you really want and need, you won't sit under the door and wait for others to admit you, you will kick the door down and take what you came for, because it is your right. Okay, maybe not that drastic, but what I mean to say - you will do what it takes, and not from a neediness, not from hope of salvation, or because everyone else denied you, but from love. Like, yes, this is what I want to do for the next 100 years. Or this is what I need to do for my path this time. And I'm going to do it for real, because I feel (I know) this is right for me. Not because it's fashionable, you know? Not because the other guy was impressed with cool powers they have. Totally better than LHP they were. But I will choose a serious LHP practitioner over a wannabe sufi any time. Because there are levels on which any path is alike when the person takes it seriously as means of improvement, it becomes a way of life, not a way of lie.

 

[8Lou1]

Can i ask why you decided to search and join an order instead of dealing with the relationship between you and the One alone?

 

[Voidking]

Would you say that the Sufi Sect you joined is more on the antinomian side or orthodox side? or perhaps in the middle? how is the initiation done? did you receive shaktipat - baraka from the Sheikh? what kind of practices? shamanic - music & dance or contemplative? how is their view on other religions and sects?

 

[Omee]

Can i ask why you decided to search and join an order instead of dealing with the relationship between you and the One alone?

My Chud sufi imam said "Whoever doesn't have a shaykh, Shaytan is his shaykh."

Honestly it is easier for people to work in groups or religious order and to tell people to recite surah al-Kawthar 1000 times every friday to get direct vision from the prophet(s) or the prophet mohammed. Imam Al-Suyuti, in his work Al-Hawi li'l-Fatawi, explained the verse Quran 3:169 to have an inductive logic from martyrs to apply to prophets. So the blessings of prophets would convey similar "lineage" credentials spiritually but it is a very tricky business. The only people who recommend these technique outright are either Spanish-Muslim Ruhanyiat writers, OR Egyptians and Omani writers as a "side-door" to it in case of lack of initiator.

About Al-Suyuti and the Prophet's condition I recommend this book:

الأنبياء أحياء في قبورهم by الشيخ مهنا بن خلفان بن عثمان الخروصي ​

Yes people can do it without an order, but the practice should have some rail guards I think lol

 

[8Lou1]

@Omee: i agree, but a lion works best with family hence my question.
an other reason is politics and religion go long way and a cult is just a cult. a lot of powerplay and women in the kitchen...
and of course the age old war between the peeps of the medeterranian about whos on first.
yet an other inside role to play or real life?

 

[Robert Ramsay]

Why? The answer I contribute is two-fold, at least. It is to the subject, not to any particular person here. I'll keep it to two points:

1. There is no LHP, as well as no RHP. Both are lies. At best they are misconceptions. You will know why if you practice on a real path enough.
Very often the public in the West would be fed two lies, so they could "chose" the one they like best. It's an ancient method of crowd control. Occult crowd is just like any other crowd, no smarter, same methods apply to them as to electorate of this and that political party. Two sheep folds: one for white sheep, one for black sheep. Still a sheep. Don't base on misconceptions or try to clear them as soon as possible, and you will have more chance of success.

2. One would gravitate toward their real preferences in life, regardless of what they state or even consciously try to do. Life circumstances align with person's real preference. This is so easy and works without fail. But since so many people who talk so much tend to be liars, they produce so many "philosophies", which are merely shades of untruth. And people try to find answers in that verbal mire, the swamp of records of speculations and interpretations, they end up picking something closer to what they feel like, abandoning the search for truth. And turning Muslim doesn't mean one will abandon dishonesty. It's not about saying the words of dedication. They say: "Every single human is born as a Muslim because they have innate Imaan. No one is born a disbeliever in God". So what exactly is the point of turning Muslim if you are already one?
But use the philosophies you pick, what you like, to get to know yourself better. What do you realy want?
Is it form or substance? Maybe you like LARPing, won't hold that against you as long as we all know it.
Recognise your real preferences, address them, work on them, not on their effects, and you will have real growth. This will also cover every other reason of failure, like personal flaws, vice, misinformation - those will fall off as you keep working on your integrity.

So,
we have people who take on false paths and who do it in a false way, serving their false selves, rather than transcending ignorance and becoming more real in the process. They try to turn any path into an advantage over other humans. Simplest way to gain an "edge" like that is to state they are an LHP/RHP adept, a witch, a Muslim, whatever to impress others and themselves. A dull edge, but might fool someone who doesn't look too close, like a gun replica might.
But they will avoid any actual change related to a path, except superficial, and because of that they will fail to produce results, for example, they won't demonstrate virtues and powers which come with the path.
This is instantly obvious to those who are on the path for real. For example, I would likely recognise if someone has Gnosis (not simply some experience) of Set or of Hekate (let's take only those two for now) but I will definitely recognise if someone has not, because that changes you.

Such change is the very thing a false self fears the most. When you know it, it's all so very simple about impostors. I don't care what baubles you wear or what names you call yourself. An impostor is recognisable by anyone who is truly on a path as you would recognise anything false. Sooner or later it happens. And the impostor would want to flee from those who recognised them as they are. They will need to find a place where they won't be scrutinised, so they will bar themselves out of any order where people do the work.

In nature some are impressive, some mimic impressive ones, because they can't be that, but among humans spiritual impostorship is disgusting, because we all can and suppose to be real. And honesty is a part of it. If one is wondering what "path" to chose LHP or RHP - chose the path of truth, examine your desires and preferences deeply, notice how it affects your life, and start directing your interest and change. This is the only path worth mentioning. You may take to gods and spirits, or not, that is not important. If you do that, paths will come to you. You won't be a beggar. If you know there is what you really want and need, you won't sit under the door and wait for others to admit you, you will kick the door down and take what you came for, because it is your right. Okay, maybe not that drastic, but what I mean to say - you will do what it takes, and not from a neediness, not from hope of salvation, or because everyone else denied you, but from love. Like, yes, this is what I want to do for the next 100 years. Or this is what I need to do for my path this time. And I'm going to do it for real, because I feel (I know) this is right for me. Not because it's fashionable, you know? Not because the other guy was impressed with cool powers they have. Totally better than LHP they were. But I will choose a serious LHP practitioner over a wannabe sufi any time. Because there are levels on which any path is alike when the person takes it seriously as means of improvement, it becomes a way of life, not a way of lie.

This is very interesting. I would not be as harsh as to descibe the different paths as 'lies', but I feel at the heart of it, all the different paths can be equally valid - although, as you say, the path you choose must be 'the path of truth' - the path that allows you to reshape yourself in the way you describe. "If any Buddha stands in your way, cut him down with a sharp sword" as they say in Zen.

My perspective on this is: Magic requires a certain kind of mindset to implement it, and belief is a tool to reach that mindset (kinda chaos magic-esque). In the process of building that mindset, you are reshaping yourself in line with a belief system that, ideally, expresses your own self the best that you can.

 

[Morell]

In the early days, I never understood why most of the elders of the Western Left Hand Path eventually "abandoned ship" and moved into some strata of, what I would have then called, "the Right Hand Path". Shortly after I first found my way to the threshold, the Schrecks began their on-going journey into Buddhism, taking much of the Temple of Set with them. By then, Myatt had long been a Muslim, disavowing all other methods of change, telling would-be diabolists to turn to Allah. Aquino always maintained a spry "it was fun while it lasted" approach to his time with LaVey, but his own philosophy had moved far, far beyond "Satanism" and deeply into Plato, Gurdjieff and the de Lubiczs' theories on Egypt. LaVey was dead and, by most accounts (that is, those other than Peter Gilmore's), he died embittered and broke (not something most of us would knock a man for but which LaVey certainly would), a Norma Desmond-esque figure surrounded by relics of his glory days, unwilling to adapt to a world that had changed. Of the major public figures associated with the LHP, LaVey was the only one to maintain into old age the same essential worldview he had held at thirty.

Among non-public initiates, the turnover was even worse. Granted, a large number were neophytes who got scared and "repented", but there were as many in late stages of their work who left for pastures new. Interestingly, I do not recall any of these moving towards atheism or materialism. The pull was always towards some iteration of RHP religion, usually Buddhism, though Christianity and Islam were common destinations too. When this wasn’t a “backslide into orthodoxy,” I assumed it was motivated by something so personal as to be basically unintelligible to others — a common feature among serious magicians of every stripe. The thought never occurred to me that such a move might actually be the fulfilment of advanced LHP work. As time passed, I came to see that this was precisely the case.

For me, the methods I used were excellent at feeding desire. This is no small thing. If desire is strong enough, it can fuel fixed Will and Will, properly directed, can propel a person from a one of life's wrecks to someone respected in every room they walk in ("from tragic to magic"). This is appealing when one has unjustly lacked worldly success, been inhibited, or simply been given too little to fulfil their nature (and there are more than a few of us Leonine types around).

In these LHP locales, the "world"/society was taught to be a kind of proving ground for the magician, a test-of-strength which ensured that what one was working on had real-world application, avoiding the historical tendency of magicians to drift into their own subjective universe ("Impressive that you had an 'experience' invoking Raziel under Mercury but you can't pay your bills Ryan!"). Both of my LHP schools would expel those who were not achieving sufficiently in the wider world. As consciousness crystallised, one’s ability to master oneself naturally developed the qualities likely to lead to greater worldly power — commanding money, valuable skills, or trust from others. It's interesting that, despite the myth of Faust, much of LHP worldly advancement is actually about increasing responsibility ("responsibility to the responsible") rather than overnight fame or lottery wins.

In my case, because the suppressed energy that had accumulated throughout childhood and into my teens was so intense, the desire so impossibly enormous, when it met the LHP the result was explosive, especially for the first five or six years. By the time that orgy of being was over, the first of the LHP’s advanced lessons arrived: fulfilling desires increases the strength of desire, but the means that once fulfilled desire loses power. This is not dissimilar to a meth addict whose craving grows as the drug’s ability to satisfy diminishes. This raised troubling metaphysical questions: "Why can the world not fulfil us?" The deeper currents of the LHP offered an answer — consciousness is “non-natural,” and therefore indulgence in the world will never suffice. Where conventional religions teach that the world cannot fulfil the soul and counsel restraint so as to not amplify desire, the deep LHP taught to accept that the desire will not be resolved — that it will grow — and that the agony can become fuel for mastery. In the quiet corners of the LHP, there is a name for one who embodies this condition of unmet yearning as fuel for mastery: the Vampyre.

I lived as a Vampyre for so long, explored its facets in so many lights, that its oldest expressions became more and more the focus of my Work — for the states of consciousness behind the Vampyre were known with near-scientific precision in other times and places, when the European vampire was a still a dirty revenant rather than a beautiful creature of longing and the Western LHP did not yet exist. An encounter with Sufism, the school of yearning, was fated. In the words of Rumi and Ibn ʿArabi, in the figure of the Sufi, I saw the Vampyre again: burning with longing and desire, but with greater control and greater mastery in the alchemy that turns yearning into ascent. I saw one who could taste the ecstasies of the world and come away not jaded by what they could not give, but refreshed by what they reminded the soul of — one who did not feed from life in a panic to stave off death, but who embraced death to fully immerse in Life.

The change from blood to wine did not come easily. The energy loops that had long accumulated had to burn away. The addiction to mythos, to my own story, had to collapse. I wish I could say this was voluntary. In truth, I had played at the edges of Sufism for so long that it played back with me, bringing about a kind of inner collapse, as if to say: “You want Forever lion cub? Then you must truly die — die in this first fanāʾ of many to all that you think you are.” And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how I spent my Summer. Once I collected myself from the floor, I knocked at the door of three orders. The third one accepted me.

Provided that it’s asked with politeness and sanity (and doesn’t involve doxxing anyone), you may ask me anything you like and I will do my best to answer.

I find it interesting to see how my solitary LHP path differs from the group designed LHP paths.

I wonder if it wasn't your Muslim friend casting his prayer magic on you what got you in the end to join Islam and seek Sufi order membership.

 

[Omee]

an other reason is politics and religion go long way and a cult is just a cult. a lot of powerplay and women in the kitchen...
and of course the age old war between the peeps of the medeterranian about whos on first.
yet an other inside role to play or real life?

Yes Definitely, politics, cult-tactics and powerplay is major part of any traditional orders and I personally desisted and felt awkward about going to a Sufi dikhr group even when prompted by one friend. I found it very cultish and not to be genuinely transformative to most people, for a lot of them they are what the Quran would say in 31:21

“...No! We ˹only˺ follow what we found our forefathers practicing...”

A lot of Women arab and muslims mystics got squashed under the guise of that, and I can see that personally. Honestly, for me the whole thing is not something I would touch even being arab and muslim-ish because the whole mess of sufism just seems like an endless pit that you either get benefit out of, get sucked into a cult, or you just end up with the "status" without any actual difference.


I am not very comfortable with that, and personally I just wanted to post Guénon's sufi pictures and a joke to it...the serious post was just extra so mods don't get mad at me.

 

[Morell]

Yes Definitely, politics, cult-tactics and powerplay is major part of any traditional orders and I personally desisted and felt awkward about going to a Sufi dikhr group even when prompted by one friend. I found it very cultish and not to be genuinely transformative to most people, for a lot of them they are what the Quran would say in 31:21



A lot of Women arab and muslims mystics got squashed under the guise of that, and I can see that personally. Honestly, for me the whole thing is not something I would touch even being arab and muslim-ish because the whole mess of sufism just seems like an endless pit that you either get benefit out of, get sucked into a cult, or you just end up with the "status" without any actual difference.


I am not very comfortable with that, and personally I just wanted to post Guénon's sufi pictures and a joke to it...the serious post was just extra so mods don't get mad at me.

Good point. Even when we learn our lesson, it doesn't fully protect us from falling into trap of another cult.

 

[Wintruz]

I would not be as harsh as to descibe the different paths as 'lies', but I feel at the heart of it, all the different paths can be equally valid

Ah, but without the "harshness" how could one possibly virtue-signal ("I know better than you sheeple because only I have integrity") while piggybacking on someone else’s words/Work, without having the courage to be vulnerable enough to share anything personally experienced?

Honestly Robert, you have to think these things through...

 

[BBBB]

Ah, but without the "harshness" how could one possibly virtue-signal ("I know better than you sheeple because only I have integrity") while piggybacking on someone else’s words/Work, without having the courage to be vulnerable enough to share anything personally experienced?

Honestly Robert, you have to think these things through...

Projections, projections It's not always about you, believe it or not. I am addressing the subject, not your life story. I can't even bear to read it, but I just picked the theme from the beginning I find important and boiled down my experience and understanding of it, because it's something I felt is going to wrap up the things from another thread for me. I said what I'd read - the account of what actually happened. Not your thoughts on it, unless the account is 90% or more and thoughts are 10% or less of the text. It's the other way around, so I stopped reading as soon as I got it. No offence to your writing, just want to make it clear, since you're self conscious, I'm not here to get you.

 

[8Lou1]

a squash a diamond makes...
its only now that the moslems from the arab countries are starting to understand that islam in other parts of the worlds work different. a lot of converts in europe found problems, non truths and lies tru out life. i think that @Wintruz if and when zeena has stated you as the future, and as you stated are inner o9a its time to understand zeena and i almost killed each other while healing without our intent to do so. i found murder on mr. beasts cards and didnt agree.

after war there is healing, no licking wounds. thank you.

 

[StarOfSitra]

I find your story deeply compelling. The soul's journey through this world and the pursuit of understanding, as an essential part of the evolution of the being, is a path I always respect. Blessed are those who, like you, seek evolution, in contrast to those who lose themselves in the shadows of material desires.

I, too, was one of those people who, for years, immersed myself in mystical knowledge, traversing both the Right-Hand Path and the Left-Hand Path. I have also thoroughly explored the main monotheistic religions and their variants, such as Sufism in the case of Islam—the point you mention—as well as the profound beauty of Rumi's poetry.

In the end, I also found myself yielding to monotheism, but I recognize it as a necessary phase in my evolutionary process. I needed to know it from within to be certain of the path I was walking and to understand what it truly offered. I participated actively in temples and immersed myself in complex texts, written by monks, that most practitioners are not even aware of. I sincerely regret nothing. The knowledge I acquired helped me forge a solid foundation where before there were only shaky grounds; it allowed me to completely transmute my understanding.

For instance, in the past, due to my upbringing in a Christian context, I saw the LHP as a mere rebellion against God (Yahweh). However, after living that experience and deepening my study, I came to see that God as just another archetype, not the Supreme Source. I understood that Yahweh emerged from a historical context of unifying the people of Israel, and that in its origins, it coexisted in a pantheon with other deities like El or Baal. This discernment helped me separate the figure of the Primordial Source from that of Yahweh—an archetypal deity, not unlike Zeus—integrating the latter as the rigid and ordered expression of divine power; a mere emanation of the Divine, not its totality.

This understanding brought me back to a state of peace, for I no longer felt in conflict with a deity, and it finally allowed me to comprehend and integrate the diverse divine powers of the cosmos within myself.

 

[Wintruz]

Can i ask why you decided to search and join an order instead of dealing with the relationship between you and the One alone?

It's a supplement to that Work rather than a replacement for it.

I did, for a lot of years after my time with the two LHP groups, focus on solitary Work. One of the issues I came to though was that I wanted to learn proper spiritual adab for what I was doing (remember, I was raised outside of even exoteric Islam so there was practically no knowledge of the correct form of practice). I need a little structure to my Work and, because this is a tradition, I didn't need to reinvent the wheel - I could simply train in what had been found effective over many centuries. Also having a time as an apprentice is good for me in a lot of ways. There's also the fact that there are valuable practices which one cannot encounter outside of a school and transmission is needed for them.

Would you say that the Sufi Sect you joined is more on the antinomian side or orthodox side? or perhaps in the middle? how is the initiation done? did you receive shaktipat - baraka from the Sheikh? what kind of practices? shamanic - music & dance or contemplative? how is their view on other religions and sects?

I won't mention the Order itself but it's well known and respected but not above orthodox suspicion. "Grudgingly tolerated because of its history" is probably a better description than "liked". Practices centre on cultivation of love through service to others and preparation for fana. Music, poetry, dance and silent meditation are all used. It's closer to "sensual" than "dry". No heed is paid to other human identifiers (like creeds and religions): love for the individual is paramount.

Projections, projections It's not always about you, believe it or not. I am addressing the subject, not your life story. I can't even bear to read it, but I just picked the theme from the beginning I find important and boiled down my experience and understanding of it, because it's something I felt is going to wrap up the things from another thread for me. I said what I'd read - the account of what actually happened. Not your thoughts on it, unless the account is 90% or more and thoughts are 10% or less of the text. It's the other way around, so I stopped reading as soon as I got it. No offence to your writing, just want to make it clear, since you're self conscious, I'm not here to get you.

“I’m not obsessed with you, I just coincidentally can’t stop responding to everything you write”

I see you’re keeping careful track of what you don’t read. Now, rather than mooching on the credibility of others, why not find the courage and integrity to go and start your own thread talking about what you have learned and are able to share? You've had all the attention that you're getting from me.

 

[8Lou1]

can i do a funny on sufis? of course you can sweet Lou....
sufi is said to come from the word wool and it is said that during the times of the prophet there were dudes who sat outside the mosque chitchatting all day in the sun. they wore wool and so the Order started...it evolved and the 13th warrior came out as a movie and the moslems went to europe for help. the first thing the europeans said was dont do that to sheep, use a goat instead...and now pigs are haram. if you dont believe me go ask the imam in the mosque el haram in mecca. and so malcom x went and found steve biko saying the same thing: shit aint right!

Love is the Law, Love under Will!

 

[BBBB]

“I’m not obsessed with you, I just coincidentally can’t stop responding to everything you write”

I see you’re keeping careful track of what you don’t read. Now, rather than mooching on the credibility of others, why not find the courage and integrity to go and start your own thread talking about what you have learned and are able to share? You've had all the attention that you're getting from me.

You realizie you are confirming what I have said in the previous thread? You invariably seek conflict with anyone who you even suspect at not aggreeing with you. Really can't stop yourself? You could have not replied at all to my post and I would be happy. Just pretend you don't read them. I can quote sufi, something appropriate for the situation, from Al Ghazalli:

Man's nature is made up of four elements, which produce in him four attributes, namely, the beastly; the brutal, the satanic, and the divine. In man there is something of the pig, the dog, the devil, and the saint. The pig is the appetite which is repulsive not for its form but for its lust and its gluttony. The dog is passion which barks and bites, causing injury to others, The devil is the attribute which instigates these former two, embellishing them and bedimming the sight of reason which is the divine attribute. Divine reason, if properly attended to, would repel the evil by exposing its character. It would properly control appetite and the passions. But when a man fails to obey the dictates of reason, these three other attributes prevail over him and cause his ruin. Such types of men are many. What a pity it is that these who would find fault with those who worship stones do not see that on their part they worship the pig and the dog in themselves: Let them be ashamed of their deplorable condition and leave no stone unturned for the suppression of these evil attributes. The pig of appetite begets shamelessness, lust, slander, and such like; the dog of passion begets pride, vanity, ridicule, wrath and tyrany. These two, controlled by the satanic power produce deceit, treachery, perfidy, meanness etc. but if divinity in man is uppermost the qualities of knowledge, wisdom, faith, and truth, etc. will be acquired.

If you dance with sufi, really do, you are bound to get your inhuman parts stripped from you and hanged out to dry (if they actually care to teach you, of course). I am not your sifu (couldn't help a little pun) but I state you act on something other than reason here. Can we leave it at that? You realize I was here for a long time and could reply to your topics on many occasions if I wanted? But I didn't. Nor do I intend to for later ones if you make them. Abstain this once from conflict, if you can. I wonder if you can.

 

[aviaf]

In the early days, I never understood why most of the elders of the Western Left Hand Path eventually "abandoned ship" and moved into some strata of, what I would have then called, "the Right Hand Path". Shortly after I first found my way to the threshold, the Schrecks began their on-going journey into Buddhism, taking much of the Temple of Set with them. By then, Myatt had long been a Muslim, disavowing all other methods of change, telling would-be diabolists to turn to Allah. Aquino always maintained a spry "it was fun while it lasted" approach to his time with LaVey, but his own philosophy had moved far, far beyond "Satanism" and deeply into Plato, Gurdjieff and the de Lubiczs' theories on Egypt. LaVey was dead and, by most accounts (that is, those other than Peter Gilmore's), he died embittered and broke (not something most of us would knock a man for but which LaVey certainly would), a Norma Desmond-esque figure surrounded by relics of his glory days, unwilling to adapt to a world that had changed. Of the major public figures associated with the LHP, LaVey was the only one to maintain into old age the same essential worldview he had held at thirty.

Among non-public initiates, the turnover was even worse. Granted, a large number were neophytes who got scared and "repented", but there were as many in late stages of their work who left for pastures new. Interestingly, I do not recall any of these moving towards atheism or materialism. The pull was always towards some iteration of RHP religion, usually Buddhism, though Christianity and Islam were common destinations too. When this wasn’t a “backslide into orthodoxy,” I assumed it was motivated by something so personal as to be basically unintelligible to others — a common feature among serious magicians of every stripe. The thought never occurred to me that such a move might actually be the fulfilment of advanced LHP work. As time passed, I came to see that this was precisely the case.

For me, the methods I used were excellent at feeding desire. This is no small thing. If desire is strong enough, it can fuel fixed Will and Will, properly directed, can propel a person from a one of life's wrecks to someone respected in every room they walk in ("from tragic to magic"). This is appealing when one has unjustly lacked worldly success, been inhibited, or simply been given too little to fulfil their nature (and there are more than a few of us Leonine types around).

In these LHP locales, the "world"/society was taught to be a kind of proving ground for the magician, a test-of-strength which ensured that what one was working on had real-world application, avoiding the historical tendency of magicians to drift into their own subjective universe ("Impressive that you had an 'experience' invoking Raziel under Mercury but you can't pay your bills Ryan!"). Both of my LHP schools would expel those who were not achieving sufficiently in the wider world. As consciousness crystallised, one’s ability to master oneself naturally developed the qualities likely to lead to greater worldly power — commanding money, valuable skills, or trust from others. It's interesting that, despite the myth of Faust, much of LHP worldly advancement is actually about increasing responsibility ("responsibility to the responsible") rather than overnight fame or lottery wins.

In my case, because the suppressed energy that had accumulated throughout childhood and into my teens was so intense, the desire so impossibly enormous, when it met the LHP the result was explosive, especially for the first five or six years. By the time that orgy of being was over, the first of the LHP’s advanced lessons arrived: fulfilling desires increases the strength of desire, but the means that once fulfilled desire loses power. This is not dissimilar to a meth addict whose craving grows as the drug’s ability to satisfy diminishes. This raised troubling metaphysical questions: "Why can the world not fulfil us?" The deeper currents of the LHP offered an answer — consciousness is “non-natural,” and therefore indulgence in the world will never suffice. Where conventional religions teach that the world cannot fulfil the soul and counsel restraint so as to not amplify desire, the deep LHP taught to accept that the desire will not be resolved — that it will grow — and that the agony can become fuel for mastery. In the quiet corners of the LHP, there is a name for one who embodies this condition of unmet yearning as fuel for mastery: the Vampyre.

I lived as a Vampyre for so long, explored its facets in so many lights, that its oldest expressions became more and more the focus of my Work — for the states of consciousness behind the Vampyre were known with near-scientific precision in other times and places, when the European vampire was a still a dirty revenant rather than a beautiful creature of longing and the Western LHP did not yet exist. An encounter with Sufism, the school of yearning, was fated. In the words of Rumi and Ibn ʿArabi, in the figure of the Sufi, I saw the Vampyre again: burning with longing and desire, but with greater control and greater mastery in the alchemy that turns yearning into ascent. I saw one who could taste the ecstasies of the world and come away not jaded by what they could not give, but refreshed by what they reminded the soul of — one who did not feed from life in a panic to stave off death, but who embraced death to fully immerse in Life.

The change from blood to wine did not come easily. The energy loops that had long accumulated had to burn away. The addiction to mythos, to my own story, had to collapse. I wish I could say this was voluntary. In truth, I had played at the edges of Sufism for so long that it played back with me, bringing about a kind of inner collapse, as if to say: “You want Forever lion cub? Then you must truly die — die in this first fanāʾ of many to all that you think you are.” And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how I spent my Summer. Once I collected myself from the floor, I knocked at the door of three orders. The third one accepted me.

Provided that it’s asked with politeness and sanity (and doesn’t involve doxxing anyone), you may ask me anything you like and I will do my best to answer.

This was a rich read — thank you for laying it out with such clarity. But I’ll be blunt: the idea that the Left Hand Path naturally culminates in a Right Hand Path conversion feels like someone mistaking the exit sign for the throne room. You didn’t abandon ship — you got mugged by transcendence in a back alley and woke up in a Sufi order with your fangs filed down and a new taste for poetry.

And let’s talk Vampyres. The Temple of Set’s undead wing always struck me as a goth HOA — lots of robes, lots of rules, and a deep concern about who gets to call themselves “High Priest of the Night.” I’ve seen less gatekeeping at a vampire LARP. If the goal was to embody unmet yearning, they nailed it — especially the yearning for better branding and fewer internal memos.

But seriously: the Vampyre current is real, and you rode it hard. Respect. The problem is when people mistake the hunger for the path itself. That loop — desire feeding desire until the whole system collapses — isn’t a flaw in the LHP, it’s a test. And the answer isn’t to switch hands and call it fulfillment. It’s to learn to use both.

I began with the Right Hand Path — restraint, devotion, the whole luminous script. Then I migrated left, into the fire, the hunger, the ordeal. Eventually, I realized the Work demands integration. The magician who only grasps burns out. The mystic who only dissolves floats away. The real praxis is ambidextrous. You drink blood and wine. You command and surrender. You build the temple with one hand and burn it down with the other. That’s not compromise — that’s sovereignty.

So yes, from Vampyre to Sufi. But let’s not pretend the wine wasn’t fermented in the same crypt. The lion cub didn’t die — he just learned to purr in Arabic and stopped charging initiation fees. The praxis that endures is the one that laughs, kneels, bites, and ascends — all in the same breath.

Would love to hear more about how your current order handles the fire — and whether they let you keep your cape.

 

[Wintruz]

This was a rich read — thank you for laying it out with such clarity.

Thank you, and likewise.

But I’ll be blunt: the idea that the Left Hand Path naturally culminates in a Right Hand Path conversion feels like someone mistaking the exit sign for the throne room. You didn’t abandon ship — you got mugged by transcendence in a back alley and woke up in a Sufi order with your fangs filed down and a new taste for poetry.

I suppose one of the things that I implied in the post (especially by the link between the Vampyre and the Sufi) but which I should have been clearer about is that what looks like "LHP" and "RHP" early on, looks different later (I'm not knocking the binary - it can be useful as a way of describing things at a certain level). Just as the serious LHP isn't about dressing as Christopher Lee and chasing virgins, the serious RHP isn't about blind faith and becoming a door mat. What they are both about, at their most sophisticated level, is consciousness. Viewed from that perspective, the RHP/LHP distinction becomes aesthetic (this is more than skin deep, more on this in a minute) and, once that's stripped away, all you're really left with is initiation: "Is this a good way of working with consciousness?", "Is it making me less reactive and giving me more inner freedom?", "Can I manifest my desires?", "Are my desires wise or rooted in trauma?", etc.

The monk who rejects the world consciously (not all of them do) is doing precisely the same work as the black magician who says "I won't be what Madison Avenue wants me to be" (again, not all of them do so consciously). Both are declaring separation and independence from installed, automatic thinking. For a while they do different things with that independence, but the starting dynamic, the shift in consciousness, is the same. In the same way, once the trappings are stripped away, an identical condition exists behind both the Vampyre and the Sufi, it's just that one is that condition viewed through the lens of Byron and Anne Rice and the other is that condition viewed through the lens of a culture where those qualities were honoured with silks and wine rather than demonised. At their core they are the same state of being. In a way, Vampyrism is Sufism. I'm not talking here about edgy preying on others or "goth HOA" (funny!) but about working with yearning, desire, sensuality, isolation, beauty, separation from/union with the Source, etc.

If the underlying conditions are the same, why choose Sufism over Vampyrism? Because symbols have a power to direct and distort. In a longer post here, I once wrote that the Vampyre is the aristocrat viewed through the lens of the Kali Yuga. I still agree with that but I have become more inclined to the idea that to drink from the warped image means taking in the distortion as well as the positive image that is being warped. The Vampyre beautifully articulates the yearning soul but there's a tinge (a tinge which snowballs) of being trapped/cursed by that state. Very slowly, usually subconsciously, that sense is imbibed until you find yourself on a car park at two in the morning (speaking for a friend) with yearning of such proportions that the body can barely contain it and there's nowhere left to direct it to. The Sufi is the same image, s/he is on fire with yearning but the yearning is less inclined to loop, the image says "Not a curse, a reminder of where you are going". That's what has essentially happened with me. I work in the same terrain but the symbols have changed and, with them, the orientation has become a bit less stifled.

There's also the simple fact that those who have been working with these energies for a long time have more developed techniques for dealing with them than something as new as the Western LHP.

And let’s talk Vampyres. The Temple of Set’s undead wing always struck me as a goth HOA — lots of robes, lots of rules, and a deep concern about who gets to call themselves “High Priest of the Night.” I’ve seen less gatekeeping at a vampire LARP. If the goal was to embody unmet yearning, they nailed it — especially the yearning for better branding and fewer internal memos.

What's interesting about the "undead wing" is that it was governed by two perfect examples of the psychological split in the ToS at large: Lilith Aquino and Robert Neilly. One (though I respect her work for animals) goes hard for what you describe here, the rules, costumes, etc. The other is the quieter, serious one, who turns up in jeans once every ten years but, when he does, the room literally vibrates.

I find your story deeply compelling. The soul's journey through this world and the pursuit of understanding, as an essential part of the evolution of the being, is a path I always respect. Blessed are those who, like you, seek evolution, in contrast to those who lose themselves in the shadows of material desires.

I, too, was one of those people who, for years, immersed myself in mystical knowledge, traversing both the Right-Hand Path and the Left-Hand Path. I have also thoroughly explored the main monotheistic religions and their variants, such as Sufism in the case of Islam—the point you mention—as well as the profound beauty of Rumi's poetry.

In the end, I also found myself yielding to monotheism, but I recognize it as a necessary phase in my evolutionary process. I needed to know it from within to be certain of the path I was walking and to understand what it truly offered. I participated actively in temples and immersed myself in complex texts, written by monks, that most practitioners are not even aware of. I sincerely regret nothing. The knowledge I acquired helped me forge a solid foundation where before there were only shaky grounds; it allowed me to completely transmute my understanding.

For instance, in the past, due to my upbringing in a Christian context, I saw the LHP as a mere rebellion against God (Yahweh). However, after living that experience and deepening my study, I came to see that God as just another archetype, not the Supreme Source. I understood that Yahweh emerged from a historical context of unifying the people of Israel, and that in its origins, it coexisted in a pantheon with other deities like El or Baal. This discernment helped me separate the figure of the Primordial Source from that of Yahweh—an archetypal deity, not unlike Zeus—integrating the latter as the rigid and ordered expression of divine power; a mere emanation of the Divine, not its totality.

This understanding brought me back to a state of peace, for I no longer felt in conflict with a deity, and it finally allowed me to comprehend and integrate the diverse divine powers of the cosmos within myself.

This was a beautiful post and I'm grateful that you shared it.

At some stage I think a thread on why Yahweh became the vector for the Absolute would be worthwhile. I suspect it's connected with the lack of images and that prompting a turn towards the inner rather than the outer (seasons, natural forces, etc.). In other words, because there was no image, I suspect the Hebrews actually saw consciousness unfiltered.