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Angels and Demons with possible Connections

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Alfher

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@Alfher I'm sure drawing connections between dieties in different cultures does not instantly categorize someone as a "racist colonizer". Someone is just sharing their thoughts on similarities. They're not forcing others to think that all these pairs are in fact the same diety. IMO drawing connections and mentioning similarities is fine as long as someone is not using that to justify forced cultural absorption/takeover or some kind of information-apartheid.


I did not say that anyone present was being intentionally, consciously racist or colonial. I said specifically that the methodology exhibited in this thread has historically been used for racist oppression and colonial genocide and that this is the basis for this type of forced synchretism.

Which is a normal starting place, because our entire western history and academia is built on that foundation of racism and colonialism, and that perspective is built into our subconscious paradigms in the western world. From the genocide the Ancient Israelites did to the people of Canaan, to what Greece and Rome did to everybody from Egypt to the Celts, to what Britain did to basically everyone up to what the US and its cohorts are still doing today.

This is precisely why scholars have developed extra steps and processes of Deconolizing and properly Deconstructing history, religion, and other paradigms as well as our own subconscious paradigms. Which I mentioned in my first post, because Deconstruction and Decolonization techniques are important to this work.

There is natural synchretism that comes from natural cultural interaction, and there is made up cultural synchretism like in this thread, or like how Rome took Celtic gods out of context to equate them with their own gods. This second type is a tool of cultural genocide and historic erasure, and still has that effect even if not intentionally used with that goal in mind. Indigenous people the world over still suffer from this genocidal effect today, because uneducated people keep taking lore and practices from closed traditions out of context and create fake stories that bury the real stories.

There is an appropriate, correct, objective way to analyze these histories. That’s why it’s important that Canaanite religion is the direct influence on the Bible, not Sumerian. The Ancient Israelites of the Torah were not interacting with Sumerians who lived 2,000 years before they did anymore than we are interacting with Greece colonized Egypt where they wrote the PGM scrolls, they were interacting with Canaanites.

This is also why it’s important for me to understand the Christian influence on the Norse literature I study for my personal praxis, and how even magic symbols like the Ægishalmur come directly from the tradition of the Key of Solomon influencing Nordic Christian grimoire magicians rather than being ancient runic symbols like a lot of people today think.

There is no truth without context.

The archeological and literary record, in proper geographic and temporal context, provides tons of incredible answers to questions like where the Elohim came from and who Lucifer actually is or where Jesus learned the phrase Gehenna from. We have lost a lot to the sands of time, but we haven’t lost everything.

Most people would just rather feel like they’re right than do the hard work to learn the objective truth and challenge their own UPG. 🤷‍♂️
 

Roma

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trying to synchronize different deities and cultures just because they look similar
Living in the South Pacific, I am often surprised by the cultural connections with other parts of the world.

For example the ancient Egyptians had boomerangs and the god Ra appears in New Zealand as well as Egypt.

In WW2 the New Zealand Maori troops learned Greek very easily as the language sounds were the same as in the Maori language.

The Maori spiral carvings have their closest match in Scotland. The Waka Maori tend to red hair and blue eyes - just like Scotland.

If ancient humans went everywhere, perhaps their gods did also.
 

Alfher

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Living in the South Pacific, I am often surprised by the cultural connections with other parts of the world.

For example the ancient Egyptians had boomerangs and the god Ra appears in New Zealand as well as Egypt.

In WW2 the New Zealand Maori troops learned Greek very easily as the language sounds were the same as in the Maori language.

The Maori spiral carvings have their closest match in Scotland. The Waka Maori tend to red hair and blue eyes - just like Scotland.

If ancient humans went everywhere, perhaps their gods did also.

And that is a completely different conversation, but it’s related to the same principles I’ve addressed.

As we undergo the process of Decolonization and Deconstruction, there is indeed increasing evidence that there were multiple ancient civilizations that were highly advanced, wealthy, powerful peoples who were capable of sea faring and much else. Some people’s probably did travel the world, at various points in history, and interact with other distant cultures in many ways.

For example, there’s been cocaine and nicotine found in Egyptian Mummies. We’re still figuring out where that came from, and we have no other archeological or literary record to suggest ancient Egyptians knew of these drugs or traveled to get them. So it’s possible they did and didn’t talk about it, or talked about it in a way we’ve misunderstood so far. It’s still up in the air last I checked, though most academics still dismiss the ancient travel idea. However, on the other end, recent study of the Olmec people in Mesoamerica disproved the long held theory that they came from Africa. (
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The most blunt truth is that we simply don’t know as much as we think we do, and we’re still figuring most of this out as we work to decolonize and deconstruct the mess we’ve inherited. 🤷‍♂️

Because we cannot ignore the centuries and millennia of colonization and genocide that has overlapped our history and destroyed much of it. Not least of all because many are still subconsciously left with that colonizer mindset today, where most people have been programmed to believe that ancient people were profoundly primitive because they can’t imagine life without the internet. Amongst other awful things still floating around our subconscious.

And these subconscious biases continue with things like Ancient Aliens, which takes numerous things out of context to justify the idea that aLiEnS did the things. Because of course, ancient humans were too primitive and ignorant to figure out astronomy and astrology on their own, or figure out math and geometry, etc. And the notion of them learning these things by conjuring spirits and gods in ritual and astral projection in conjunction with physical scientific experimentation isn’t even on the table most of the time.

Colonization and Genocide are precisely why we don’t have many reliable sources of what happened for most of human history right now.

So we have to decolonize and deconstruct to undo as much of the damage caused by colonization and genocide as we can, to unravel as much of what actually happened as we can. This can be done. It is a precise process, and a lot of truth can be achieved by it.

The archeological record and literary record have amazing stories to tell if they are read correctly, in context, and analyzed critically.

But we can’t do that by making shit up, or allowing things other people (historic and modern) made up to go unchallenged. Sources are available and they should be used properly.
 

Roma

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we have to decolonize and deconstruct to undo as much of the damage caused by colonization
Legends across the world indicate that the Earth human civilisations started as colonies of space-faring humanoids and humans.

For example, the NZ Maori have a tradition that their ancestors came from the Pleiades. Some North American tribes have the same tradition.

Perhaps we need to move forward
 

Alfher

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Colonizer interpretations of lore indicate that.

Every indigenous person I have directly listened to and every story I have directly read indicate, if anything at all, soul travel and incarnation on different planets. Not physical space travel. That is a modern myth based on colonizers taking lore out of context, like you just did.
 

Alfher

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It does, actually. So I have no problem reminding you that Past Life Regression by itself is not a reliable source. It can be used for guidance towards subjects of interest where you can perhaps find reliable sources, but memory in general is fallible and easily modified by countless factors.

You can believe whatever you want, but if you can’t provide reliable evidence for your claims it’s best to follow the Law of Silence.
 

Alfher

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Perhaps I should try past life regression.

You should. I highly recommend everyone who believes in reincarnation to have a session or ten with a serious, licensed, qualified hypnotherapist who specializes in the subject. If done properly, it’s a very safe operation that can not only provide a lot of interesting tidbits of information and stories, but also provide some spiritual integration and help lay a foundation for full Self-Realization.

If. Done. Properly.

If done too casually or incorrectly, it can cause quite a bit of harm and mental instability, delusions of grandeur, and other symptoms of Soul Sickness. Serious things deserve serious treatment.

Which is why I want everybody to learn what is and is not a reliable source, and treat truth as a serious thing worthy of proper effort and consideration. 😉
 
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Sichen is a fraud. His translations, which are the basis for everything else he said, are just plain wrong.

Ya’ll really need to learn how to identify what is and isn’t a reliable source.



Yes, you are.

And you will continue to be spoken to that way for as long as you insist on behaving as an arrogant brat.

Especially if you’re going to get offended over respectful education just because it contradicts you, like some god damn Karen.

Get your shit together. You are capable of better and better is expected of you.



And you think nothing important happened over the course of two thousand years? Do you have any idea how many generations that was, in a time and place where people rarely lived past 40? Do you have any idea how many wars were fought, how many trades were made, how much cultural exchange and cultural evolution happened?

Have you thought at all about how much the gods and spirits themselves learned and evolved over the course of two thousand years, and how they chose to present themselves in different forms to different people for a reason? The Sumerians were not “wrong,” the world now is just dramatically different than it was 5,000 years ago, and the gods have adapted as we have.

Older does not mean better, and similar does not mean same. Context is important. With context, you can show clearly where beings evolve from one form into another, and you can also see clearly where there are no connections at all. Such as the Greek Aphrodite having no historic connection to Innana or Ishtar, despite many people saying they’re the same because of the similar Venusian qualities.

Similar. Does. Not. Mean. Same.

Your colonizer synchretism is harmful to everyone involved. It is harmful to you, because your arrogance is blocking you from learning the actual truth of the history you are butchering so you can confirmation bias your own gnosis.

It is harmful to everyone around you, because you are confidently spreading misinformation.

And it is harmful to the gods and spirits you are trying to understand, because completely ignoring their actual history and stories in order to force them to fit into your made up little boxes is profoundly more disrespectful to me and to them than anything I have said or will say to you.




My perspective is one of understanding and respecting the objective scientific processes of archeology and history.

There is a proper way to objectively analyze the literary and archeological record to check the validity of personal gnosis, and every single deity or spirit in my personal praxis who has told me something important has guided me to literary and archeological evidence for that point of view existing outside of my own mind at some point in history.

Every single time spirits or gods try to profess a “special truth” to me, it has turned out to be a lie. No individuals personal experience is ever going be superior to thousands of years of other priests and magicians consistently experiencing something different. Ever.

As for you, not only are you engaging in standard praxis for racists and colonizers by trying to synchronize different deities and cultures just because they look similar to you, you’re also just plain making shit up and conjecturing blindly to force things to conform to your views. Which is also some colonizer bullshit.

Almost everything you said in the OP is just plain wrong, and if you did even a little bit of genuine research you would know that. Lucifer as Uriel? Really?

Learn how to actually research and show reliable sources to verify your experiences and ideas or keep your made up beliefs to yourself.

The occult community already has enough misinformation spread through it. Especially regarding the beings we work with and their origins. They don’t want anymore of this made up bullshit spreading either, because their actual old stories are far more impressive than anything you or others have made up in the new age.
I’d be interested to hear your interpretation of the basis of Sitchens work. Can you point me to your conclusions? Like a topic or a write up you’ve done to explain your point of view on it?
 

Roma

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Sitchen was not always right, but he opened up whole new areas of thought and understanding. A great human!

When I studied the philosophy of science long ago, one of the key results was that new ways of thinking are not widely accepted by the existing authorities. We await a new generation to adopt new thinking
 
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Sitchen was not always right, but he opened up whole new areas of thought and understanding. A great human!

When I studied the philosophy of science long ago, one of the key results was that new ways of thinking are not widely accepted by the existing authorities. We await a new generation to adopt new thinking
Personally, for me anyways, with anything that requires an interpretation (I can’t made sense of ancient Sumerian and Akkad Cuneiform at all), I enjoy seeing as many different takes on it as I can. I realize I’ll never actually know what it really says, but I’m very interested in every possible perspective. I tend to read scriptures that way as well, with as many interpretations of them open at the same time so I can compare. I’m happy to hear multiple perspectives
 

Roma

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I woman I knew well remembered her lives in ancient Egypt. The hieroglyphics of that time were known to have hidden meaning - just as the ancient Jewish texts conceal various meanings e.g. Notarikon

She maintained that all the translations she had seen were wrong.
 
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I woman I knew well remembered her lives in ancient Egypt. The hieroglyphics of that time were known to have hidden meaning - just as the ancient Jewish texts conceal various meanings e.g. Notarikon

She maintained that all the translations she had seen were wrong.
I know of a woman who remembers that too. A regular caller on C2C and actually goes by Cleopatra. Uncanny knowledge of the history too
 

Brixgh

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I woman I knew well remembered her lives in ancient Egypt. The hieroglyphics of that time were known to have hidden meaning - just as the ancient Jewish texts conceal various meanings e.g. Notarikon

She maintained that all the translations she had seen were wrong.
Dorothy Eady ?
 
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No. A local woman. Lost track of her now
What are your thoughts of people who look identical to historical figures? Like remember those old Michael Jackson/Pharaoh comparison pics when the internet was still young? Of course there’s no way to know for sure but it makes one wonder if we tend to reincarnate into similar meat suits as we bounce along time and space
 

Roma

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Xi Jinping is a/the reincarnation of a Chinese emperor. If you find a list of emperors you may be able to match him.

In my view the match is to an emperor that was determined to expand the empire - but failed.

Rupert Murdoch appears to be another ex-emperor of China. His rather protective third wife seems to have been one of his concubines

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Alfher

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I’d be interested to hear your interpretation of the basis of Sitchens work. Can you point me to your conclusions? Like a topic or a write up you’ve done to explain your point of view on it?


I have too many other important projects to work on to waste my academic time refuting a fraud that has already been discredited. But I guess I’m gonna write a big informal forum post to help you specifically. Lol

There are three main things that Sitchen did wrong, and you can analyze these at your leisure. He translated incorrectly, he interpreted ancient astronomy and astrology incorrectly, and he insisted on the literalism of myth. He was also just a really bad academic that never actually showed much evidence for his claims, beyond his incorrect translations and incorrect interpretations. This isn’t limited to his Sumerian work either, Sitchen also butchered a bunch of biblical translations trying to prove his theories too, and his Hebrew work is even more easily discredited than his Sumerian work.

Here are six articles for you to explore, the first two of which are actually fringe / conspiracy perspectives. Because even fringe circles have to deal with the fact that Sitchens claims simply do not stand up to even the most minor of scrutiny.

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Sitchen was just factually incorrect in his work and the entire Ancient Astronaut “Theory” is a racist delusion that actively harms and hinders serious research into our actual ancient history. At best, Sitchen was a terrible academic with “good” intentions. Regardless of his character, he was wrong and his legacy is harmful.

Which does not mean that life does not exist beyond Earth. I personally do believe, and as a Seer have personally experienced, that the universe is far more abundant with life than the average modern human can imagine. Most people today just have colonized minds, and have a very limited conception of who and what qualifies as “life,” which leaves people to imagine that physical space travel is the only way we can or have interacted with the rest of our galaxy.

But since ya’ll like conspiracy theories and made up stuff, here’s one for you: what makes you think that a Mainstream Media (History Channel) sponsored idea like Ancient Aliens is anything besides a PsyOp to distract people from more interesting and more valuable truth, while sowing discord between the population and encouraging a portion of the population to resist education and intellectualism so they would be easier to manipulate in future PsyOps?

Like, oh I don’t know, the QANON PsyOp perhaps…?

Ya ever think about that?

Or how a ruthlessly capitalist entity like Disney who owns History Channel is far more interested in profit than ethical education of the masses, and they simply don’t care about the truth or the consequences of the lies they feed people in the name of blind profit?

Sigh.

Again.

There is no truth without context. There are differences between information and knowledge and wisdom. Magicians should know this.

So, here’s TEN reliable sources for Sumerian education. Five YouTube things for easy consumption to start you off, and five books for serious study:

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Sumerian Mythology: A Study of Spiritual and Literary Achievement in the Third Millennium B.C. by Samuel Noah Kramer.

Gods, Demons and Symbols of Ancient Mesopotamia: An Illustrated Dictionary by Jeremy Black and Anthony Green.

Myths from Mesopotamia: Creation, the Flood, Gilgamesh, and Others by Stephanie Dalley.

Inanna: Queen of Heaven and Earth: Her Stories and Hymns from Sumer by Diane Wolkstein and Samuel Noah Kramer.

The Treasures of Darkness: A History of Mesopotamian Religion by Thorkild Jacobsen.

And for good measure, here’s some YouTube to start ya’ll on proper Canaanite history too, to circle this all back to the actual topic of the thread regarding the origin of entities in Abrahamic Mythology. There’s a lot more than just this, but I can’t do all your work for you. 🤷‍♂️ This is already a huge post. Learn how to research correctly and follow your own interests accordingly.

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