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Cleansing Sin

Mider2009

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What do you do to cleanse sin..meaning your negative energy, karmic ties

in Christianity one repents, goes to confession, covers themselves in the blood of Christ

in Judaism they repented, have Yom Kippur, the High Priest would draw all negative energy from the community onto a goat and send it to Azazel or the wilderness, today on Yom Kippur they pray and fast

im curious as to what people here do.
 

Mider2009

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One method I’ve learned of cleansing sin is the Kaparot, this is a method for observant Jews or observant Ger Toshov...or a non Jew who has taken upon himself to observe the universal 7 laws of God (or 7 categories) given to the world after Noah’s Flood

its best done on the Eve of Yom Kippur, but it can done between any of the days between the end of Rosh hashanah to the Eve of Yom Kippur.

This is the money version...as it’s often done with a chicken but if you want to use a chicken there are rules to that, it needs to hu mainly treated and slaughter, it must be slaughtered by a special Jewish butcher called a Shochet, a man trained in the laws of ritual slaughter and kosher laws.

anyway you take the money (or live bird) and swing it around your head saying

Children of man who sit in darkness and the shadow of death, bound in misery and chains of iron --- He will bring them out of darkness and the shadow of death, and will sunder their bonds. Foolish sinners, afflicted because of their sinful ways and their wrongdoings; their soul loathes all food and they reach the gates of death --- they cry out to the Lord in their distress; He saves them from their afflictions. He sends forth His word and heals them; He delivers them from their graves. Let them thank the Lord for His kindness, and [proclaim] His wonders to the children of man. If there be for a man [even] one interceding angel out of a thousand [accusers], to speak of his uprightness in his behalf, then He will be gracious to him and say: Redeem him from going down to the grave; I have found expiation

FOR THE CHICKEN This is my exchange, this is my substitute, this is my atonement. This rooster (hen) will go to its death, while I will enter and proceed to a good long life and to peace.

FOR MONEY This is my exchange, this is my substitute, this is my atonement. This money will go to charity, while I will enter and proceed to a good long life and to peace

for chicken
  • Take a handful of earth (usually made available in the area) and recite the following blessing before covering the blood:
  • Say Baruch atah Adonai Eloheinu melech ha-olam, asher kidishanu bemitzvotav vetzivanu al kisui hadam be-afar.
  • (Blessed are You, L‑rd our G‑d, King of the universe, who has sanctified us with His commandments and commanded us concerning covering the blood with earth.).

you do the above prayers while holding the money above your head do the prayers 3 times while moving the cash or bird above your head three times so you’re doing the circle 9 times.

if you use a bird...give the bird to the poor to be eaten or sell the meat n give the money to the poor, or give the money you passed over your head and give it to charity

AGAIN DONT GO DOING THIS YOURSELF WITH A BIRD...YOU NEED TO BE HUMAIN AND ACTUALLY SLAUGHTER THE HIRD, JUST USE MOMEY

the belief is that your sins are kinda transferred to the bird or money...think 9f it as negative energy being dispelled
 

Mider2009

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Catholic means of removing sin...if you’re a hard core Catholic it’s best to go to a priest and do the actual confession, the belief is that the priest will forgive you with the authority given to him by God, the same is believed for angelic and and Orthodox Christians though Orthodox differ. If you just want to pray at home you can try the following.

Catholic confession prayer or act of confession

O my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended Thee,and I detest all my sins because I dread the loss of Heaven and the pains of hell,But most of all because they have offended Thee, my God, Who art all good and deserving of all my love.I firmly resolve, with the help of Thy grace,to confess my sins,to do penance,and to amend my life. Amen.

prayers of your religion and culture have power too, the last rites, burial rites, prayers for the dead, in Judaism it is Kaddish
 

Mider2009

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Note for those walking the path of Kabbalah and or Judaism, if you are not a Jew you can observe Yom Kippur at home you can Google the dates and rules, prayers.
 

Roma

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Since "our god is a god of love" the bulk of offenses relate to improper relationship. Thus we become eligible for removal of karma by establishing right relationship.

The actual removal of karma may require an additional action
 

Yazata

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This sounds nauseating but I honestly don't think that I commit sin. Maybe I have a Blindspot or I'm good at lying to myself 😅
There are things that I consider wrong and therefore I simply don't do them.
 

SkullTraill

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This sounds nauseating but I honestly don't think that I commit sin. Maybe I have a Blindspot or I'm good at lying to myself 😅
There are things that I consider wrong and therefore I simply don't do them.
This is what I strive for as well.

I tend not to dwell on how I may have obscurely/unintentionally wronged people because it was not born of malice.

What I do dwell on, sometimes, is my past when I have wronged people out of greed, selfishness, and self-interest. How I try to absolve myself is by making a concerted and intentional effort to never wrong people in that way. That helps my conscience.

I'm no longer a catholic, so I can't think of any other way that particularly interests me.
 

Mider2009

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This sounds nauseating but I honestly don't think that I commit sin. Maybe I have a Blindspot or I'm good at lying to myself 😅
There are things that I consider wrong and therefore I simply don't do them.
It’s just one method...it’s not needed

you can do the Yom Kippur Ritual which consists of fasting and prayer...or just repent...or charity...forgive others.

there’s several ways the Kabbalah talks about it

im not a rabbi or rabbinic authority, it’s best to ask one.
 

Mider2009

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Since "our god is a god of love" the bulk of offenses relate to improper relationship. Thus we become eligible for removal of karma by establishing right relationship.

The actual removal of karma may require an additional action
The Rabbis fixing things between you n those youve wronged is the best thing, some say Yom Kippur won’t cleanse your sin between man and man only between man and God I’m not sure I’m not an authority. By fixing things I mean confessing to God, going to those you’ve wrong and asking forgiveness, paying them back etc...but as we can’t always do that I guess these other methods exist. Even in Christianity one is told to fix his deeds

thus when we wrong God or Man we must atone in reincarnation or hell...this is also so that we learn and grow Closer to God

God has no wish to punish us...we punish us...that’s my opinion
 

Mider2009

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The Rabbis fixing things between you n those youve wronged is the best thing, some say Yom Kippur won’t cleanse your sin between man and man only between man and God I’m not sure I’m not an authority. By fixing things I mean confessing to God, going to those you’ve wrong and asking forgiveness, paying them back etc...but as we can’t always do that I guess these other methods exist. Even in Christianity one is told to fix his deeds

thus when we wrong God or Man we must atone in reincarnation or hell...this is also so that we learn and grow Closer to God

God has no wish to punish us...we punish us...that’s my opinion
researching further, it’s said Yom Kippur doesn’t fix things between wrongs humans. one has to fix things with those we’ve wronged.
 

Finsternis

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This sounds nauseating but I honestly don't think that I commit sin. Maybe I have a Blindspot or I'm good at lying to myself 😅
There are things that I consider wrong and therefore I simply don't do them.

This is what I strive for as well.

I tend not to dwell on how I may have obscurely/unintentionally wronged people because it was not born of malice.

What I do dwell on, sometimes, is my past when I have wronged people out of greed, selfishness, and self-interest. How I try to absolve myself is by making a concerted and intentional effort to never wrong people in that way. That helps my conscience.

I'm no longer a catholic, so I can't think of any other way that particularly interests me.

In a world abundantly full of human doctrines, moralities, and cultural biases trying to profess to anyone and everyone what is supposedly "right" or "wrong", your Conscience is the only true compass worth following.
The Universe is a very natural and simple thing, but humans love making an enigma out of it and writing their own truth over it to elevate their egos or satisfy their feelings and fantasies. It only takes a brief look at human history to see how little such perspectives matter, to see how often they change and flow because they are ultimately just subjective ideas that change alongside the people who make them up.

But there will always be your own Conscience to guide your path, for there is nothing more truly sacred and essential to any one person's life than their own Individuality - and that Conscience is your unique key to embracing it.
If either of you appreciate some old Hermetic wisdom, the Conscience is considered the finest expression of the Akashic/Godly principle within the Spirit, it is essentially your "phone line" from Providence and your own highest self, the immortal source from which your current self emanates from in the first place.

So I would say there's not a better guide to have than your Conscience. No earthly doctrine will lead you more closely to your path than the clues given by your own Spirit, and the only true Sin is to ignore and defy your own God-given Conscience.
All in all, sounds to me like you two got a good grip on things and should keep heading in that direction. ;)
 

Mider2009

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In a world abundantly full of human doctrines, moralities, and cultural biases trying to profess to anyone and everyone what is supposedly "right" or "wrong", your Conscience is the only true compass worth following.
The Universe is a very natural and simple thing, but humans love making an enigma out of it and writing their own truth over it to elevate their egos or satisfy their feelings and fantasies. It only takes a brief look at human history to see how little such perspectives matter, to see how often they change and flow because they are ultimately just subjective ideas that change alongside the people who make them up.

But there will always be your own Conscience to guide your path, for there is nothing more truly sacred and essential to any one person's life than their own Individuality - and that Conscience is your unique key to embracing it.
If either of you appreciate some old Hermetic wisdom, the Conscience is considered the finest expression of the Akashic/Godly principle within the Spirit, it is essentially your "phone line" from Providence and your own highest self, the immortal source from which your current self emanates from in the first place.

So I would say there's not a better guide to have than your Conscience. No earthly doctrine will lead you more closely to your path than the clues given by your own Spirit, and the only true Sin is to ignore and defy your own God-given Conscience.
All in all, sounds to me like you two got a good grip on things and should keep heading in that direction. ;)
If that was true why is the world so crap? There has been golden ages when people lived and were enlightened by religion, and no I don’t mean extremism.
 

Roma

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Conscience is the only true compass worth following
I was taught that by the priests, but they put the proviso that I had to train my conscience.

The fundamental problem is that few humans can control their thoughts. How then to test a conscience?
 

Finsternis

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If that was true why is the world so crap? There has been golden ages when people lived and were enlightened by religion, and no I don’t mean extremism.

That is a subjective human perspective that neither the Universe nor Providence share. The beloved race of hairless primates could have been fated to be annihilated tomorrow by some chance catastrophe and the Universe would have continued to exist in perfection as it always has.
Humans are just another participant in the ultimate Ecosystem of the Universe, and whether they are ebbing and flowing through their cycles of prosperity or ruination is of no objective consequence.

It is only the Individual that can interpret and decipher the Universe and its personal meaning - and the tool given to you naturally by Providence to pursue that purpose is the Conscience. Earthly Religions, Doctrines, Cultures, etc. are merely auxiliaries through which the Individuality may develop itself with proper application. But like all earthly things, they are imperfect, limited, and even counter-productive at times, hence why the Spirit's Conscience is the only fundamental Compass one should follow above all else.

I was taught that by the priests, but they put the proviso that I had to train my conscience.

The fundamental problem is that few humans can control their thoughts. How then to test a conscience?

It is not so much that the Conscience itself needs to be trained - it is people who need to train themselves in order to effectively channel and perceive it.
The Conscience is an expression of your Akashic/Etheric principle, and being of an Akashic nature, it is the deepest, most subtle essence of your Spirit that is easily overshadowed by the rest of your being.
On one hand, your Soul/Astral Body is full of emotional energies and compulsions which are all too good at distracting your mind and dragging away your focus to your lesser essences.
On the other hand, people generally have a weak, undisciplined Consciousness which is constantly flowing with thoughts and other nonsense - and indeed it is difficult to tune into the Conscience if your chatty monkey-mind is always running its mouth and taking away your attention.

So yes, engaging with the Conscience takes practice, but most of all, Self Control.
Everyone is usually able to perceive their Conscience to some degree, but to deepen and develop that further, one has to overcome these other obstacles.
The Emotions and compulsive self must be tamed and subjugated below the Consciousness and not the other way around like it often is for people, and the Consciousness itself needs to disciplined so that it can better observe and perceive the inspirations of the Conscience.
Once these other things are in order, following the Conscience is much, much easier.

There are many good, simple exercises out there perfectly suited to develop in these ways such as Void meditation, Focal meditation, Mindfulness exercises and so on, so it's actually not very complicated to achieve - the difficulty is mostly just human compulsiveness, stubbornness, and laziness. :LOL:
 

Mider2009

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That is a subjective human perspective that neither the Universe nor Providence share. The beloved race of hairless primates could have been fated to be annihilated tomorrow by some chance catastrophe and the Universe would have continued to exist in perfection as it always has.
Humans are just another participant in the ultimate Ecosystem of the Universe, and whether they are ebbing and flowing through their cycles of prosperity or ruination is of no objective consequence.

It is only the Individual that can interpret and decipher the Universe and its personal meaning - and the tool given to you naturally by Providence to pursue that purpose is the Conscience. Earthly Religions, Doctrines, Cultures, etc. are merely auxiliaries through which the Individuality may develop itself with proper application. But like all earthly things, they are imperfect, limited, and even counter-productive at times, hence why the Spirit's Conscience is the only fundamental Compass one should follow above all else.



It is not so much that the Conscience itself needs to be trained - it is people who need to train themselves in order to effectively channel and perceive it.
The Conscience is an expression of your Akashic/Etheric principle, and being of an Akashic nature, it is the deepest, most subtle essence of your Spirit that is easily overshadowed by the rest of your being.
On one hand, your Soul/Astral Body is full of emotional energies and compulsions which are all too good at distracting your mind and dragging away your focus to your lesser essences.
On the other hand, people generally have a weak, undisciplined Consciousness which is constantly flowing with thoughts and other nonsense - and indeed it is difficult to tune into the Conscience if your chatty monkey-mind is always running its mouth and taking away your attention.

So yes, engaging with the Conscience takes practice, but most of all, Self Control.
Everyone is usually able to perceive their Conscience to some degree, but to deepen and develop that further, one has to overcome these other obstacles.
The Emotions and compulsive self must be tamed and subjugated below the Consciousness and not the other way around like it often is for people, and the Consciousness itself needs to disciplined so that it can better observe and perceive the inspirations of the Conscience.
Once these other things are in order, following the Conscience is much, much easier.

There are many good, simple exercises out there perfectly suited to develop in these ways such as Void meditation, Focal meditation, Mindfulness exercises and so on, so it's actually not very complicated to achieve - the difficulty is mostly just human compulsiveness, stubbornness, and laziness. :LOL:
That really has nothing to do with what I asked...even though we are just humans we are important and have a part of the universe

we live on earth n it’s not too peaceful, you said we can decipher our own right n wrong...great then why is the world so crap.

no offense but you are what 20 or 30? And yet you think you know the secrets of the universe, IMO you and I are here on a learning process and we will return life after life till we are done.

sorry if I sound rude.
 

SkullTraill

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That really has nothing to do with what I asked...even though we are just humans we are important and have a part of the universe

we live on earth n it’s not too peaceful, you said we can decipher our own right n wrong...great then why is the world so crap.

no offense but you are what 20 or 30? And yet you think you know the secrets of the universe, IMO you and I are here on a learning process and we will return life after life till we are done.

sorry if I sound rude.
Perhaps what they are trying to say is: even though some of us, as humans, have a human perspective that the world is crap as you put it, it may just be a useful and important part of a greater, perhaps not so individual path that we must grow through/overcome?
 

Mider2009

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Perhaps what they are trying to say is: even though some of us, as humans, have a human perspective that the world is crap as you put it, it may just be a useful and important part of a greater, perhaps not so individual path that we must grow through/overcome?
you are correct, a big part of rectifying the world is in out minds but it’s also out word in our actions
 

Roma

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The beloved race of hairless primates could have been fated to be annihilated tomorrow by some chance catastrophe and the Universe would have continued to exist in perfection as it always has.

This is an interesting position to take. I note for example the various native peoples that claim their ancestors came from other star systems such as the Pleiades (hence relatively hairless?). If so, the universal absence of humans would affect various galaxies and time lines.

I further note that the kabbalistic Tree of Life, as it fits on the human light body, seems to act as an antenna for cosmic light bodies - suggesting perhaps that the microcosm is closely connected to the macrocosm.

Certainly my own experience is that Earth humans are neither accidental nor decorative but rather constructed to be functional in the cosmos.

Then we come to the concept that the universe is perfect and hence does not need to become/achieve additional functionality or purpose. So is the universe decorative rather than functional? Does it all have no purpose?
 

Finsternis

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Perhaps what they are trying to say is: even though some of us, as humans, have a human perspective that the world is crap as you put it, it may just be a useful and important part of a greater, perhaps not so individual path that we must grow through/overcome?
Not quite, though I appreciate the attempt for clarification.

Their initial comment was vague and seemed to have little direct bearing to whatever I explained, as no part of my message was quoted and it was unclear what response they were fishing for.
So the only point was that the perspective of "the world is crap" is entirely subjective and has no Universal basis.
Destruction, ruin, and discord are just as natural and lawful to the Universe as prosperity and "good" things. There is no non-subjective, over-arching goal that humans must adhere to, and this world isn't necessarily in need of being "rectified".
The world is already perfectly what it needs to be at any current point in time - whether humans are thriving or languishing is irrelevant.
Human society will rise and wane through its cycles for as long as they exist, because it is natural that it does so. The Universe does not care to uphold the status quo of what any one person thinks it should be because it only cares to uphold the flow of nature.
Every "golden" society that there has been on this planet - where are they now?
Gone. Wasted away.
And any such society that rises in the future will inevitably face the same fate, because that is nature.

People are free to give the "world" personal meaning and try to make it a "better place" in whatever way they think it means to be "better", but it is all just personal prerogative that will be undone eventually, because nature will always throw the world into other directions at some point that no longer fit what some person thinks the world should be.
People themselves can't even agree on what the world should look like, and nature sure as hell isn't going to bother playing along with that circus.

Mider sees the violence and discord in the world, and therefore judges that the world is "crap" - and yet there are many other Humans and plenty of spirits that enjoy this instead.
Just as there are those that value peace and prosperity, there are those that value the opportunities for violence and destruction. Just as there are those that value stability and Order, there are those who value Chaos.
No one will ever get their way 100%, because Providence is all-encompassing and must sustain the natural flow of all things.

no offense but you are what 20 or 30? And yet you think you know the secrets of the universe, IMO you and I are here on a learning process and we will return life after life till we are done.

I am beyond the need of your approval or confidence, and that is as far as I will continue this disrespectful line of conversation. Appreciate what I write, or disagree and move on - but don't insult me.


There has been golden ages when people lived and were enlightened by religion, and no I don’t mean extremism.

If you are concerned that my emphasis on the personal Conscience implies that Religion is useless, you can relax and know that is not what I imply.
Religion is one of the many tools humans have to facilitate their development and even explore their own Individuality - however, they are far from perfect, and their quality varies throughout time just as the people do.
They are, either way, earthly constructs that are limited in scope and application, and while they can be helpful to the populace, they cannot fulfill the full development of the Individual, because they are not designed for full Individual Realization. They are for the masses.
Even further though, Religion is by no means a guarantee that Society will be "prosperous" or peaceful, either.
Human prosperity and whether or not they are in a "golden age" is beyond just the single factor of Religion, and it only takes a look at history to see that Religions can be destructive just as much as they can be productive.

Like I said, they are imperfect tools, hence why I so thoroughly emphasized that the personal Conscience is important above all for Individual development and guidance.
 

Mider2009

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Not quite, though I appreciate the attempt for clarification.

Their initial comment was vague and seemed to have little direct bearing to whatever I explained, as no part of my message was quoted and it was unclear what response they were fishing for.
So the only point was that the perspective of "the world is crap" is entirely subjective and has no Universal basis.
Destruction, ruin, and discord are just as natural and lawful to the Universe as prosperity and "good" things. There is no non-subjective, over-arching goal that humans must adhere to, and this world isn't necessarily in need of being "rectified".
The world is already perfectly what it needs to be at any current point in time - whether humans are thriving or languishing is irrelevant.
Human society will rise and wane through its cycles for as long as they exist, because it is natural that it does so. The Universe does not care to uphold the status quo of what any one person thinks it should be because it only cares to uphold the flow of nature.
Every "golden" society that there has been on this planet - where are they now?
Gone. Wasted away.
And any such society that rises in the future will inevitably face the same fate, because that is nature.

People are free to give the "world" personal meaning and try to make it a "better place" in whatever way they think it means to be "better", but it is all just personal prerogative that will be undone eventually, because nature will always throw the world into other directions at some point that no longer fit what some person thinks the world should be.
People themselves can't even agree on what the world should look like, and nature sure as hell isn't going to bother playing along with that circus.

Mider sees the violence and discord in the world, and therefore judges that the world is "crap" - and yet there are many other Humans and plenty of spirits that enjoy this instead.
Just as there are those that value peace and prosperity, there are those that value the opportunities for violence and destruction. Just as there are those that value stability and Order, there are those who value Chaos.
No one will ever get their way 100%, because Providence is all-encompassing and must sustain the natural flow of all things.



I am beyond the need of your approval or confidence, and that is as far as I will continue this disrespectful line of conversation. Appreciate what I write, or disagree and move on - but don't insult me.




If you are concerned that my emphasis on the personal Conscience implies that Religion is useless, you can relax and know that is not what I imply.
Religion is one of the many tools humans have to facilitate their development and even explore their own Individuality - however, they are far from perfect, and their quality varies throughout time just as the people do.
They are, either way, earthly constructs that are limited in scope and application, and while they can be helpful to the populace, they cannot fulfill the full development of the Individual, because they are not designed for full Individual Realization. They are for the masses.
Even further though, Religion is by no means a guarantee that Society will be "prosperous" or peaceful, either.
Human prosperity and whether or not they are in a "golden age" is beyond just the single factor of Religion, and it only takes a look at history to see that Religions can be destructive just as much as they can be productive.

Like I said, they are imperfect tools, hence why I so thoroughly emphasized that the personal Conscience is important above all for Individual development and guidance.
I’m not here to criticize what you’re saying...but you’re what 30? You don’t have it all figured out, which most really don’t. I don’t adhere to religion...what most don’t understand is that Unless you are Jewish you aren’t really bound to “religion” but an ethical set of universal laws all humanity is bound by.

other then that No ones going to hell forever for picking the wrong religion, because as you said they are imperfect, none the less they are a wonderful tool to teach ethics, the sad thing is that most don’t understand what they are looking at

if i read a Jewish commentary vs a Christian commentary, one says we are sinful n fallen blah blah the next says no such thing, as for perfection, the point 9f Kabbalah is that as we live our lives, life after life We rectify our selfs and ascend, and eventually we rectify the world.

that’s my belief, you're welcome to believe what you will, you say the world is crap has no universal basis lol...tell that to millions starving, or people working slave wages, but that’s again not my never mind your beliefs are yours and mine are mine.

my point about golden ages is that there was times when humans were happy under religion and ethical government, I’m not talking sharia or other nonsense.
 
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