[Help] Creation of a contract according to Jake Stratton-Kent Grimorium Verum

[cormundum]

Pacts are a silly idea. I've never used them. What use is offering a spirit a cigar or whisky or money? Do the Abramelin, you will then have power over all spirits through your HGA. I have had spirits refuse a request but then after a very long argument we come to an agreement that is fine with me; no contracts, no offerings, no threats to destroy the entity, simply a reminder to the spirit that as I am an Adept they are obliged to help me.

You've got the right idea. I work in the exact same way after having done Abramelin.

 

[MorganBlack]

David Wilson-Steer, Corundum, this is getting very off-topic, and the HGA has nothing to do with the Verum system. I am not unsympathetic to what you're saying, but please make another thread.

That said, I'd love my HGA and talk with her every day. As the resident god of my universe, I don't need demons for magic and can make miracles myself. I do Goetia because I enjoy it, and I like the daimons of the Underworld.

The Underworld Initiation is greatly misunderstood, but while more dangerous, the benefits and adventure are also tremendous. I should probably write more about it one day.

The HGA is an Overworld Initiation method, but I challenge you to ask yourself what "becoming divine" looks like in other cultures that are not specifically Abrahamic in mythic structure. For instance, the Logos can "be" both Christ and Hermes as reason and meaning itself enters the biosphere. Claiming all the people who are not using your highly specific mythic framework and methodology are "doing demons wrong" is not helpful.

I am just a voice on the internet, and you have no reason to believe me, but I have lived a very full life in my half century - and the underworld daimons have been a huge assist with rising to the highest ranks as director level at very famous and/or creative companies in the video game, film and tech industries. Because I wanted to. Those are what i wanteds to do with my life at that time. So I did. The demons were a big help here. You attack JSK, asking what "did demons do for him," but maybe they did exactly what he wanted them to do? His life is not my life. I strongly suggest you cannot judge the life expression of another person's soul and their own HGA or divine spark.

But you know this, I'm sure, having achieved Knowledge and Conversation of your Holy Guardian Angel, and all.

 

[SeekerPS]

An example of a contract with a spirit found in the Goetia of Dr rudd

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[William66]

So, after reading JSK Grimorium Verum, he outlines the importance of the contract, adorned with the sigils of the spirits one desires to make contract with. On the blue cover grimoires, i have only seen one mention of a contract in the grand grimoire or red dragon (Or spanish San Cipriano) in the conjuration of Lucifugo Rofocale



Then, supposedly, the spirit turns it down, but then you insist and he will ask for something completly different

Althoug romantic, i guess a contract so vague and open would not be advisible to any practitioner. has anyone worked with written contracts? what clauses do you use?

If for example, i would want to have money or find treasures, as is the case in the GG, wouldn't it be better to specify to at least not hurt you and your loved ones?

This is Goetia but not so much off topic

I do work the Goetia, last evocation was 2021 summer, it was verbal contract, i asked for four favours, i did have to do follow up rituals again, but it ended up with good results. I just said what i wanted and why, and said what i was gonna offer for a period of time, but it wasn’t such as give yourself over to the demon after twenty years, that i would not do, and would not dare. I do value contract when i have written them, even job contracts, the spirits know if you have keep your contract/promise or not. If not it might be harder to get them to do you favour, but not impossible.

What i have heard is that some exorcists put the contract into the triangle before hand, and then start the operation, at the end of the operation, they could see ”burn marks” or other signs on the signature side of the paper which could indicate that the spirit signed the contract/paper and has agreed.

Yes you must mention that no one gets hurts, not even a single leaf from a tree. As we know they can be fishy and find ways to go around things we say or write, it is a must to be as specific as possible. Hope it helped.

 

[FireBorn]

What i have heard is that some exorcists put the contract into the triangle before hand, and then start the operation, at the end of the operation, they could see ”burn marks” or other signs on the signature side of the paper which could indicate that the spirit signed the contract/paper and has agreed.

Yes you must mention that no one gets hurts, not even a single leaf from a tree. As we know they can be fishy and find ways to go around things we say or write, it is a must to be as specific as possible.

I don't know… the whole "burn marks = demon signature" thing feels a lot like Hollywood Satanic Panic. And this idea that demons are just itching to twist your words? I mean… maybe, if you invoked them into a triangle and screamed at them in the name of a god you don't even believe in, thinking that somehow gave you authority.

Think about it: If I invited you to coffee, surrounded you with biker enforcers, yelled demands at you in their name, and offered you a cup of joe in exchange for a favor, how would you respond? Would you help from the heart? Or would you do the bare minimum, maybe even look for ways to mess with me later? Would you see me as the good guy in that story?

Perspective matters.

Here’s what I did. I invoked Duke Bune. No protection. Sovereign. I told him what I needed, assistance in getting $10k to fix my diesel truck. I didn’t bribe him. I didn’t beg. I didn’t even offer a pact. I just asked, respectfully and directly.

He answered. exactly as I asked. I mean exactly. Words mean things, better be razor sharp with your language with demons.

I received a flood of ideas (the assistance), downloadable products I could build and sell on my own site. I got to work. He met me halfway. Simple as that.

No triangles. No threats. No contracts. Just mutual respect and willingness to move.

 

[MorganBlack]

I was just saying on another forum the grimoires do us a bit of a disservice by presenting the demons as a D&D 'Monster Manual' populated by distinct personalities and beings. While in ritual it is useful to approach and treat them as fully distinct individuals, but they are truly Legion.

What the grimoires mostly do, in my opinion, is provide stories, personalities , and myths that structure the type of manifestation and experiences you'll have with the daimons. (This does not mean that the myths are "untrue" btw.) Modern simplified Goetia... ala GOM, S. Connolly et all, I hear can work, so all good. The GV too can provide even newcomers obvious and fast results with a few of the trivial operations. The full GV working is not required for results magic, but then again, neither are demons, so the question becomes what you'd like to experience over the course of your magical career.

The ritual framework you choose structures to a certain degree the effects and types of manifestations you'll have. The Grimorium Verum, as well as other "pact" - based grims are deeply chthonic in form, and create a ritual context that is similarly chthonic and outright paranormal. The most dramatic results, including theophanic manifestations, - and useful ones, not just poltergeist thrashing about - have been in using GV's protocols. Conversely the Lemegeton , which I admit to not having much experince in, I find more "stellar" and mental in effect. That said, as always, YMMV.

 

[William66]

I don't know… the whole "burn marks = demon signature" thing feels a lot like Hollywood Satanic Panic. And this idea that demons are just itching to twist your words? I mean… maybe, if you invoked them into a triangle and screamed at them in the name of a god you don't even believe in, thinking that somehow gave you authority.

I do believe in God, and do believe God is the one who gives authority, that is how i think.
I don’t scream/yell at them, i see no need for that then to piss them off.

Think about it: If I invited you to coffee, surrounded you with biker enforcers, yelled demands at you in their name, and offered you a cup of joe in exchange for a favor, how would you respond? Would you help from the heart? Or would you do the bare minimum, maybe even look for ways to mess with me later? Would you see me as the good guy in that story?

Yes good question. I think there is a hiearchy and God is at the top, so they do obey, that does not mean we should be rude . And for offering, it is up to the person and the spirit, in my case i saw faster and direct results after commanding him into the triangle.

Here’s what I did. I invoked Duke Bune. No protection. Sovereign. I told him what I needed, assistance in getting $10k to fix my diesel truck. I didn’t bribe him. I didn’t beg. I didn’t even offer a pact. I just asked, respectfully and directly.

He answered. exactly as I asked. I mean exactly. Words mean things, better be razor sharp with your language with demons.

I received a flood of ideas (the assistance), downloadable products I could build and sell on my own site. I got to work. He met me halfway. Simple as that.

No triangles. No threats. No contracts. Just mutual respect and willingness to move.

Yes indeed there are easier method, glad it worked out for you.

I did not evoke him into the triangle the first few times, i did not see results, so that is why i put him ”into the triangle”. Otherwise i just have the triangle there but evoke only outside the circle. Having the triangle isn’t a bad idea.

 

[FireBorn]

Yes indeed there are easier method, glad it worked out for you.

I did not evoke him into the triangle the first few times, i did not see results, so that is why i put him ”into the triangle”. Otherwise i just have the triangle there but evoke only outside the circle. Having the triangle isn’t a bad idea.

I agree with you here, there are many methods to get to the same place. I think the point is to get to that place.

If a specific structure gets you there, then that is the best structure for you. My lens, and my path is only for me. It most likely wouldn't be great for anyone but me (as much as I think its a great path, this is just reality).

I just hope you get results, contact is pretty sweet. Triangle or no.

I would be curious to hear from someone with ceremonial experience that has also worked via Demonolatry regarding if and how contact with demons was different. (Total aside, but still a curiosity of mine. Not that one is better or worse.)