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Destruction of the Ego

Lemongrass00

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Hello all,

for those who know, I have been dedicated on the path of lucid dreaming and ultimately astral projection.

I have had some success with lucid dreaming this summer but not on a consistent enough basis

my current routine is meditation anywhere from 10-15 minutes daily and trying to recall dreams

However I am a college student, and the life of studying, partying and girls has me too rooted to the material world and I feel like it is a great hinderance to any spiritual insight or progress I can make.

Does anybody have any tips to help me dissolve the ego, disassociate myself from my mind and my body, which I take great pride in, in order to experience the higher planes of reality?

All comments are appreciated.
 

8Lou1

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no it shoudnt. when a whole world gets its humans vaccinated something changes, simple noone can deny that. whether one likes it or not this is the new Truth and we are going to have to live with that. so when a usa military site asks if the adversaries please can hold until time given, we listen and we rise.

so the question remains, what is it that we are destroying, is that still the ego or are we made to function as a groupconsciousness toward something new and what is that new. yes some will need to destruct their ego, to get to the esoteric parts, but yours was so simple, you need a teacher lane, reading your last reply also no ego was destroyed. so give some input yourself in text and be an example.
 

8Lou1

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the difference between a wizard and a magician is, wizards use mathematics and are often able in cyberspace. magicians is a different thing. some say like the old wise magi (havent seen them in a while) and the who has the biggest lie magician, those we meet often online. and then you also have the combo and thats were spiritual warfare comes into play. so lets hope they come into being indeed..
 

Al-Zalaam

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Hello all,

for those who know, I have been dedicated on the path of lucid dreaming and ultimately astral projection.

I have had some success with lucid dreaming this summer but not on a consistent enough basis

my current routine is meditation anywhere from 10-15 minutes daily and trying to recall dreams

However I am a college student, and the life of studying, partying and girls has me too rooted to the material world and I feel like it is a great hinderance to any spiritual insight or progress I can make.

Does anybody have any tips to help me dissolve the ego, disassociate myself from my mind and my body, which I take great pride in, in order to experience the higher planes of reality?

All comments are appreciated.

Dissolving the ego isn't really a necessary component of lucid dreaming or astral projection, if that's all you're after.
Besides, true dissolution of the Ego is near impossible unless you wish to pursue what's often called the "Mystic's Death" and dissolve into cosmos entirely - otherwise you will always have the presence of Ego because it is a fundamental function of the individual Spirit.
Which isn't a problem at all, even Adepts possess a perfectly functioning Ego.

What you need, however, is control and discipline.
Astral projection is not a basic skill, it is an advanced one that requires the mastery of other basic skills in order to attain consistent results.
The basics revolve around mental mastery, a structured pursuit of mental control.

Any magical initiation worth its weight will instruct the student to train through mental disciplinary exercises in the beginning, because they are the foundation of all serious pursuits in magic - whether it be ceremonial magic, energy manipulation, or such things as astral projection.
You cannot reliably practice magic or engage with magical skills without a solid control of your mental being, and to a certain extent, even your physical being.
So let's look at it from the beginning:

A.
Have you first mastered thought control/Mindfullness meditation?
This is usually the first step in the pursuit of mental mastery.
If you are unfamiliar with the exercise, it is a meditation which revolves around watching your thoughts from a completely neutral position as a spectator. You cannot allow yourself to become engaged with the thoughts, you must only watch them as an unattached observer.
If you can successfully practice thought control for 10 or 15 minutes without being distracted or accidentally becoming absorbed into the thoughts you are watching, then you may consider this exercise complete.

B.
The step up from this exercise is what is often called "focal meditation".
There are different ways to practice this, but it usually revolves around two things:
1. Concentrating on an external object such as a candle flame, a spot on the wall, etc. can be anything.
The goal is to maintain perfect concentration on the chosen focal point for 10 minutes.
2. Instead of an external focal point, you can also choose a mental figment.
Basically, choose one specific thought or train of thought, and concentrate on this thought for 10 minutes.
It could be something like a melody being played on a piano, a visualization of an object, or imagining yourself in a particular place.

Once this exercise can be done perfectly for 10 minutes without distraction, you can move on to the last step of thought mastery.

C.
In the last two exercises, you have learned to disengage with your thoughts and impulses and observe them as a spectator, and also learned to concentrate your mind at will on a focal point, but the last step is learning to purge your mind of these things entirely and fundamentally master concentration.
This exercise is usually called "Void" meditation, and it is pretty self explanatory.
The objective is to hold a state of complete mental void for 10 minutes without any interruptions.
Literally, sitting down and keeping your mind completely devoid of thought, immediately banishing any that approach. This exercise can be considered complete when 10 minutes of void can be maintained without any breaks or intrusions of thought.

Once all of these exercises are mastered, you will have attained the basic mental mastery to effectively pursue such things as Astral projection or other skills.
You will also notice a complete transformation of your willpower and mental structure, and your emotions/impulses/thoughts will all have a much harder time controlling you.
For the most part, you will be in control of them instead of them being in control of you.

However, there are other exercises beyond these basics that should also be mastered.
There is a physical-mastery exercise related to the aforementioned exercises that will not only give you further self control on a physical level, but is also a helpful addition to the practice of Astral Projection.
Related to the "Asana" practice in some traditions, it is basically a form of physical meditation.
In this exercise, you must sit in a meditative position of your preference, and then maintain absolute stillness for 10 minutes.
You must ignore all impulses to move, to itch or fidget, or to get lost in mental wandering.

Once this exercise is mastered, you will find yourself with an even greater degree of willpower and physical self control, and it will be very easy for you to manage yourself in your material life.
It will also prepare you for the state of stillness you need to maintain while practicing such things as trance or Astral Projection.
There are other exercises and details necessary for the practice of astral projection, but they are not relevant to your concern of material matters, so I will cease.

Dissolution of the ego is not necessary for any serious pursuit of astral projection, just need discipline and self-control.:)
 

Jiggywiggy

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Please don't kill your ego. It is not a good feeling. I once made a potion that catapulted me into the abyss, I had a vision and came back to life 3 hours later(figuratively). I forgot how to eat, didn't know who I was/ no ambition to do anything and was emotionalless.
Took a whole day to come back to normal.
 

Lemongrass00

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Dissolving the ego isn't really a necessary component of lucid dreaming or astral projection, if that's all you're after.
Besides, true dissolution of the Ego is near impossible unless you wish to pursue what's often called the "Mystic's Death" and dissolve into cosmos entirely - otherwise you will always have the presence of Ego because it is a fundamental function of the individual Spirit.
Which isn't a problem at all, even Adepts possess a perfectly functioning Ego.

What you need, however, is control and discipline.
Astral projection is not a basic skill, it is an advanced one that requires the mastery of other basic skills in order to attain consistent results.
The basics revolve around mental mastery, a structured pursuit of mental control.

Any magical initiation worth its weight will instruct the student to train through mental disciplinary exercises in the beginning, because they are the foundation of all serious pursuits in magic - whether it be ceremonial magic, energy manipulation, or such things as astral projection.
You cannot reliably practice magic or engage with magical skills without a solid control of your mental being, and to a certain extent, even your physical being.
So let's look at it from the beginning:

A.
Have you first mastered thought control/Mindfullness meditation?
This is usually the first step in the pursuit of mental mastery.
If you are unfamiliar with the exercise, it is a meditation which revolves around watching your thoughts from a completely neutral position as a spectator. You cannot allow yourself to become engaged with the thoughts, you must only watch them as an unattached observer.
If you can successfully practice thought control for 10 or 15 minutes without being distracted or accidentally becoming absorbed into the thoughts you are watching, then you may consider this exercise complete.

B.
The step up from this exercise is what is often called "focal meditation".
There are different ways to practice this, but it usually revolves around two things:
1. Concentrating on an external object such as a candle flame, a spot on the wall, etc. can be anything.
The goal is to maintain perfect concentration on the chosen focal point for 10 minutes.
2. Instead of an external focal point, you can also choose a mental figment.
Basically, choose one specific thought or train of thought, and concentrate on this thought for 10 minutes.
It could be something like a melody being played on a piano, a visualization of an object, or imagining yourself in a particular place.

Once this exercise can be done perfectly for 10 minutes without distraction, you can move on to the last step of thought mastery.

C.
In the last two exercises, you have learned to disengage with your thoughts and impulses and observe them as a spectator, and also learned to concentrate your mind at will on a focal point, but the last step is learning to purge your mind of these things entirely and fundamentally master concentration.
This exercise is usually called "Void" meditation, and it is pretty self explanatory.
The objective is to hold a state of complete mental void for 10 minutes without any interruptions.
Literally, sitting down and keeping your mind completely devoid of thought, immediately banishing any that approach. This exercise can be considered complete when 10 minutes of void can be maintained without any breaks or intrusions of thought.

Once all of these exercises are mastered, you will have attained the basic mental mastery to effectively pursue such things as Astral projection or other skills.
You will also notice a complete transformation of your willpower and mental structure, and your emotions/impulses/thoughts will all have a much harder time controlling you.
For the most part, you will be in control of them instead of them being in control of you.

However, there are other exercises beyond these basics that should also be mastered.
There is a physical-mastery exercise related to the aforementioned exercises that will not only give you further self control on a physical level, but is also a helpful addition to the practice of Astral Projection.
Related to the "Asana" practice in some traditions, it is basically a form of physical meditation.
In this exercise, you must sit in a meditative position of your preference, and then maintain absolute stillness for 10 minutes.
You must ignore all impulses to move, to itch or fidget, or to get lost in mental wandering.

Once this exercise is mastered, you will find yourself with an even greater degree of willpower and physical self control, and it will be very easy for you to manage yourself in your material life.
It will also prepare you for the state of stillness you need to maintain while practicing such things as trance or Astral Projection.
There are other exercises and details necessary for the practice of astral projection, but they are not relevant to your concern of material matters, so I will cease.

Dissolution of the ego is not necessary for any serious pursuit of astral projection, just need discipline and self-control.:)
Holy crap this is a gold mine thank you so much,
I have been working on A for several months and can hold a “spectral” semi void state of consciousness for around 25-30 minutes at my most.

I definitely will try external focusing that has never occurred to me before.

thanks!
 

Al-Zalaam

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Holy crap this is a gold mine thank you so much,
I have been working on A for several months and can hold a “spectral” semi void state of consciousness for around 25-30 minutes at my most.

I definitely will try external focusing that has never occurred to me before.

thanks!

These exercises I have mentioned are found in Bardon's IIH book, the first being referred to as "Thought Control". For most people, that first exercise alone can take anywhere from 1-6 months to a year or more, so do not be discouraged by the time it seems to be taking.
As long as you are practicing daily for at least 10 minutes, you will complete it eventually. But if you wish for more efficient development, you can even practice that twice a day, one early and one late.

A general rule of thumb for these mental exercises that I've found alongside other adepts I've known, is that it takes about 5 minutes of practice everyday at the least to merely maintain your progress, 10 minutes to efficiently advance your progress, and 15-30 minutes for those that would like to expedite their progress - past that point, however, and the returns are neglible.
Another useful bit of information to know, is that learning to succeed for the first 1-5 minutes is usually the hardest part of each exercise, which then relaxes course for the next 5-10 minutes, and once you can reach a perfect 10 minutes, it is usually fairly easy to reach well above that such as 15 or 30 minutes.
Similarly, the 1-5 mark is when your consciousness and brain are doing the most work and development, while reaching a perfect 10 minutes is when it will be further refined to a point of basic mastery - and more importantly, it makes the development more permanent.
Achieving 15-30 minutes however, is mostly just a personal test of proficiency and can advance your mastery more deeply, but it is not necessary for the practical side of magic - however it will have profoundly lasting effects and it will then be difficult to lose that skill even without daily practice, so it has its value in that way.

It is important to understand that each exercise is designed to restructure the consciousness permanently, they are not merely recreational activities to "relax the mind for a little while" or meant to put the practitioner in a temporary state for magical operation.
This permanent transformation can only be achieved, however, by thorough mastery of each exercise.

The first, "Thought Control" or the Mindfulness meditation, is meant to de-clutter and re-center your central point of consciousness outside of the grips of the lower intellect.
Think of the mind as an ocean, where most people are helplessly swimming in an abundance of all of their thoughts/emotions/impulses and they live their lives at the mercy of the tides of their mind - Thought Control, however, is meant to pull you from that ocean onto a solid ground so that you may observe or engage with the waters of your mind with control and independence.

The second, focal meditation or "Thought Discipline", is essentially designed to transform your concentration from a weak, disorganized mist, into a laser-like force of focus. Out of the three mental exercises, this one has the most direct connection to the practice of practical magic.

The third, Void meditation or "Thought Mastery", is the final mental gate between the neophyte and the rest of initiation. It's completion signifies the completion of the entire First Step of initiation as far as the mental aspect is concerned.
Not only will it give you absolute mastery of the lower mind to such a degree that all thoughts and emotions will run off you like water, and not only will it grant you a degree of focus and perceptiveness to your daily life that is unrivaled by your peers, but it will also prepare your consciousness for further development into such things as Self-Realization or Samadhi - union with your higher Spirit/the divine seed of your consciousness.

With this thorough development of your consciousness, you will be well prepared for any magical skill or practice you wish to pursue, at least from the perspective of the consciousness.
There are other aspects of the Being that should be developed in particular regards to Astral Projection, however.
After honing the mind through the aforementioned exercises, it would be wise of you to then master your imagination/mental senses.
By training your imaginative senses, especially auditory and visual, you will also develop your Astral senses to a degree even without the development of the clair-senses, which is obviously important for things like Astral Projection.
Perfecting the sensory imagination will also grant you the capability to effectively develop the clair-senses in the first place, anyways.

But more importantly, mastery of the imagination will prepare you for Mental Projection, which is the most important prerequisite for Astral Projection.
And once Mental Projection is mastered, one must then simply learn to separate the physical/astral bodies, and you will be ready for Astral Projection, as they are simply the same skill minus that one detail.

Anyways, I see you mention a form of void meditation that you practice.
However, unfortunately I am unfamiliar with the unique practice you mention, so I may only suggest that you ensure that it is translatable into the form of Void meditation I have mentioned.
Basically, make sure it is not simply a form of trance-meditation rather than a conscious one.
As can be seen from my previous words, it would be a shame to miss out on the important conscious development that proper Void meditation offers because of a confusion between similar but distinct exercises, so it would be wise of you to see if they develop the mind in the same ways by testing if your skill translates between the two practices.
If you find that you can perform the fundamental Void exercise without issue, then you don't have to worry about it - but if not, it would be best to plug in that gap of development. :)
 

Lemongrass00

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These exercises I have mentioned are found in Bardon's IIH book, the first being referred to as "Thought Control". For most people, that first exercise alone can take anywhere from 1-6 months to a year or more, so do not be discouraged by the time it seems to be taking.
As long as you are practicing daily for at least 10 minutes, you will complete it eventually. But if you wish for more efficient development, you can even practice that twice a day, one early and one late.

A general rule of thumb for these mental exercises that I've found alongside other adepts I've known, is that it takes about 5 minutes of practice everyday at the least to merely maintain your progress, 10 minutes to efficiently advance your progress, and 15-30 minutes for those that would like to expedite their progress - past that point, however, and the returns are neglible.
Another useful bit of information to know, is that learning to succeed for the first 1-5 minutes is usually the hardest part of each exercise, which then relaxes course for the next 5-10 minutes, and once you can reach a perfect 10 minutes, it is usually fairly easy to reach well above that such as 15 or 30 minutes.
Similarly, the 1-5 mark is when your consciousness and brain are doing the most work and development, while reaching a perfect 10 minutes is when it will be further refined to a point of basic mastery - and more importantly, it makes the development more permanent.
Achieving 15-30 minutes however, is mostly just a personal test of proficiency and can advance your mastery more deeply, but it is not necessary for the practical side of magic - however it will have profoundly lasting effects and it will then be difficult to lose that skill even without daily practice, so it has its value in that way.

It is important to understand that each exercise is designed to restructure the consciousness permanently, they are not merely recreational activities to "relax the mind for a little while" or meant to put the practitioner in a temporary state for magical operation.
This permanent transformation can only be achieved, however, by thorough mastery of each exercise.

The first, "Thought Control" or the Mindfulness meditation, is meant to de-clutter and re-center your central point of consciousness outside of the grips of the lower intellect.
Think of the mind as an ocean, where most people are helplessly swimming in an abundance of all of their thoughts/emotions/impulses and they live their lives at the mercy of the tides of their mind - Thought Control, however, is meant to pull you from that ocean onto a solid ground so that you may observe or engage with the waters of your mind with control and independence.

The second, focal meditation or "Thought Discipline", is essentially designed to transform your concentration from a weak, disorganized mist, into a laser-like force of focus. Out of the three mental exercises, this one has the most direct connection to the practice of practical magic.

The third, Void meditation or "Thought Mastery", is the final mental gate between the neophyte and the rest of initiation. It's completion signifies the completion of the entire First Step of initiation as far as the mental aspect is concerned.
Not only will it give you absolute mastery of the lower mind to such a degree that all thoughts and emotions will run off you like water, and not only will it grant you a degree of focus and perceptiveness to your daily life that is unrivaled by your peers, but it will also prepare your consciousness for further development into such things as Self-Realization or Samadhi - union with your higher Spirit/the divine seed of your consciousness.

With this thorough development of your consciousness, you will be well prepared for any magical skill or practice you wish to pursue, at least from the perspective of the consciousness.
There are other aspects of the Being that should be developed in particular regards to Astral Projection, however.
After honing the mind through the aforementioned exercises, it would be wise of you to then master your imagination/mental senses.
By training your imaginative senses, especially auditory and visual, you will also develop your Astral senses to a degree even without the development of the clair-senses, which is obviously important for things like Astral Projection.
Perfecting the sensory imagination will also grant you the capability to effectively develop the clair-senses in the first place, anyways.

But more importantly, mastery of the imagination will prepare you for Mental Projection, which is the most important prerequisite for Astral Projection.
And once Mental Projection is mastered, one must then simply learn to separate the physical/astral bodies, and you will be ready for Astral Projection, as they are simply the same skill minus that one detail.

Anyways, I see you mention a form of void meditation that you practice.
However, unfortunately I am unfamiliar with the unique practice you mention, so I may only suggest that you ensure that it is translatable into the form of Void meditation I have mentioned.
Basically, make sure it is not simply a form of trance-meditation rather than a conscious one.
As can be seen from my previous words, it would be a shame to miss out on the important conscious development that proper Void meditation offers because of a confusion between similar but distinct exercises, so it would be wise of you to see if they develop the mind in the same ways by testing if your skill translates between the two practices.
If you find that you can perform the fundamental Void exercise without issue, then you don't have to worry about it - but if not, it would be best to plug in that gap of development. :)
Thank you so much again, I’m very happy to find someone so knowledgeable in what I’m trying to attain.

I definitely have to work harder at this sort of thing than a lot of people. I don’t have any sort of natural inclination towards this type of stuff and my upbringing definitely acts as a barrier, so I am very patient with my progress and happy to see any development at all.

I will most definitely check out the book you mentioned and if you don’t mind can you elaborate between a trance state versus a conscious one? Thank you!!!
 

Roma

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The intelligence that is called the ego is a defence mechanism to protect and integrate the human system.

When the human reaches first stage enlightenment (requiring integration of the physical, emotional and lower mental intelligences) the ego, having done its job, naturally transitions from protection to creativity.
 

Al-Zalaam

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Thank you so much again, I’m very happy to find someone so knowledgeable in what I’m trying to attain.

I definitely have to work harder at this sort of thing than a lot of people. I don’t have any sort of natural inclination towards this type of stuff and my upbringing definitely acts as a barrier, so I am very patient with my progress and happy to see any development at all.

I will most definitely check out the book you mentioned and if you don’t mind can you elaborate between a trance state versus a conscious one? Thank you!!!
You are welcome.

Unfortunately for some people, there are sometimes harsh obstacles in the way of progress beyond what the norm is.
Even I have had such experience.
For example, I found the 3 mental exercises we've discussed quite easy and breezed through them without much time or effort - however, as soon as I began the next step of developing the "Plastic Imagination", specifically the sense of visualization, I found it to be an absolute roadblock.
For nearly a decade of intense daily practice, I made literally no progress on visualization and felt like I was going in circles - it nearly drove me to madness.
But perseverance prevailed eventually, and I found my way around this obstacle.

Tenacity is one the pillars of the magician, so do not be discouraged by difficulties and keep your determination sharp.
Fortunately, you seem to be of the patient type already, and that will take you far in the practice of magic.

Anyways, conscious meditation and trance may seem similar, but they are actually on opposite sides of the spectrum in practice.
With the former, you are exercising and empowering your consciousness, while with the latter, you are letting go of your consciousness and submitting yourself unto the subconscious.
Both lead to relaxed states and such things, but they are essentially in opposite directions.

An easy way to understand can be seen in the difference between day dreaming and focal meditation.
Even the average normal person is capable of getting lost into a daydream for a considerable length of time - yet if the average person attempted focal meditation, he would likely fail quite rapidly. Within seconds or a single minute, he would lose hold.
But why? Both revolve around becoming absorbed and focused onto a thought, so why is he able to accomplish daydreaming, but not the other?
That's because daydreaming entails the submission of your focus into your subconscious. You are not proactively concentrating on a thought or idea, you are loosening your conscious control and giving in to the power of the subconscious and letting it guide your intended stream of consciousness instead.

It is a similar situation between the difference of conscious Void Meditation and using trance to achieve void:

In the conscious exercise of Void Meditation, you maintain absolute grip of your awareness and your consciousness. In fact, such exercise will intensify your powers of conscious control and attention.
So just as you are here, reading this post with all your attention and awareness about you, so too would you be the same during conscious void meditation, if not even more deeply conscious than you are now.
It is quite literally exercising your powers of concentration to enter a state of absolute focus and thoughtlessness through the means of discipline. This degree of control and focus will grant peace and relaxation, but it isn't because of a trance taking hold, but rather the subjugation of the mind and the ascendance of the consciousness beyond it.

In the exercise of trance, however, you would relax and let your consciousness melt away as you fall into the depths of the subconscious, until you reach a trance state where it is almost as if your mind was dormant or asleep.
And because of this submission of consciousness, it is not being exercised or developed itself, and on the contrary you are developing the subconscious.
This form of exercise is good for certain kinds of spiritual development and experiences, but it is not particularly useful for practical magic.

All of the conscious meditations, however, will give you a very powerful tool that you can readily put to use in practical magic, because it is quite literally the empowerment of your normal consciousness and does not rely on trance.
Throughout the history of magic and occultism, trance has been used far and wide as a loop-hole to achieve magic through various methods, because it can be quite effective and it is easier to tap into the power of the subconscious to work magic - but it is simply a crutch that does not actually develop power on its own.
Most practitioners do not have the conscious power necessary to operate magic in a straightforward fashion, but tapping into the subconscious is a quick and dirty way to achieve success, and because nearly everyone is capable of doing this, it is often the only method many occultists learn to work magic or certain psychic skills.
But because of this reliance on a crutch, they usually plateau quite quickly and never grow past a certain point of development. Not to mention that using the subconscious in this fashion is unreliable in the first place and has inconsistent results.
It's a similar issue to the reliance on rituals actually, but that's another discussion. 😂

Anyways, I hope that clarifies the many differences between conscious meditation and trance.
Remember how I made the metaphor about the mind being an ocean where most people live helplessly among the tides of the water's surface?
Well, conscious meditation solves that by raising oneself up and above those waters towards the clarity of the heavens, while trance is the opposite, where you purposely sink deeper into the ocean of the mind, closer to the dark depths of the subconscious where it is calm and peaceful in its own way. Either way, both get you away from the turbulent and cumbersome tides of the mind's surface.

In fact it is entirely ok to practice both - I do myself, for certain purposes.
Just keep in mind that it is the power of conscious development that will effectively move you forward in practical magic towards the skills you seek.
 
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