Do you have an Altar?

[TheMouse]

It's not hard when you're broke ... Seriously.

i hear you . . and i understand about that being related to not having your own space to work with objects . . . . but if youre talking about tools costing money . . about 90% of my tools are found objects or made out of leftover materials . . . that's actually an important element of my practices and my trust in my guides and chaotic attraction . . . . . .

 

[Lazarus]

Physically: not at the moment as I’ve been traveling the country in an RV for the past few years. But I have in the past and I’m sure I will in the future. I kind of still have one at my house but it’s more just a cabinet to store magic stuff right now.

Astrally: absolutely. In fact, I have an entire temple that I use.

 

[pixel_fortune]

a couple people have mentioned a sort of "growing out of" physical tools at some point in their process

I think "growing out of" is true for those people, but not universally true

That is, not using tools isn't inherently a more mature way to practice, even if comes alongside craft progression for some people

For other people, they might start out not using tools, and then "grow into" using them. Using tools could be a sign of development in those people

Things that DO reflect an immature practice: buying new tools without having a planned purpose for them, thinking fancy = being a good magician (also, thinking NO tools = automatically being a good magician), buying new tools as a way to procrastinate actually practising, buying new tools because you feel external pressure to have a practice that looks like the ones you see on Instagram, being unable to practice when you don't have access to your tools.

There is a big difference between ENJOYING using tools and being DEPENDENT on using tools.

If you LIKE using tools, and are in a financial, geographic and social position where you can use them, but you choose not to, then you're just robbing yourself of enjoyment for no purpose, which isn't a virtue

If you DON'T like using tools, and you don't use them, then you're just doing what you like. Which is great, but not really any more mature than the person who likes using tools and does what they like.

In short, use or non-use of tools doesn't say anything about how advanced a practitioner is. Only their relationship to their tools or non-use of tools tells you anything about them

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

I slightly disagree.

Í like tools, and in my own space I used them, the right one for the right job.

I got a dowel, painted one end black and one end white, that was my first real wand.
I had a dagger that I used and painted the hilt yellow. I did buy a pentacle. Since I had money at the time.
Not having money or tools does not make you a bad magician, just human.

I've found wands on nature walks and consecrated them even literally with blood sweat and tears. I've also snapped that wand in half once as a show of my not being dependant on it.

Good or bad isn't on results or being a storehouse of knowledge, it's what it's used for in my opinion, the right tool for the right job.

Even a milk crate or two can become an altar. A chessboard, your floor. Whatever gets it done.

 

[pixel_fortune]

Not having money or tools does not make you a bad magician

I think you've misread me - I would never ever say that. I grew up in poverty and only became not-poor fairly recently. (Not that you need personal experience to not be judgemental of poor people, but as it happens I do have it)

My post was a bit convoluted - if you tell me which bit came across as saying that not having tools makes you a bad magician, I'll rewrite it more clearly

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

Not to be cliche, but its far more likely to say, its not you - its me.
Ive been stewing about things not related, and it came out wrong - and apparently unconnected, my apologies.

 

[pixel_fortune]

I've remembered that you're in the US, which has really bizarre levels

Not to be cliche, but its far more likely to say, its not you - its me.
Ive been stewing about things not related, and it came out wrong - and apparently unconnected, my apologies.

No worries! Because you said something, I had a chance to clarify. If you haven't said anything, you might still think I think that. So: better that you said something

I was mainly pushing back against people who say it makes you a better magician to not use tools.

I think we agree - it's not about the tools or non-tools, it's about what you do with them

 

[TheMouse]

Astrally: absolutely. In fact, I have an entire temple that I use.

Nice

Post automatically merged: Dec 30, 2023

I think "growing out of" is true for those people, but not universally true

That is, not using tools isn't inherently a more mature way to practice, even if comes alongside craft progression for some people

For other people, they might start out not using tools, and then "grow into" using them. Using tools could be a sign of development in those people

Things that DO reflect an immature practice: buying new tools without having a planned purpose for them, thinking fancy = being a good magician (also, thinking NO tools = automatically being a good magician), buying new tools as a way to procrastinate actually practising, buying new tools because you feel external pressure to have a practice that looks like the ones you see on Instagram, being unable to practice when you don't have access to your tools.

There is a big difference between ENJOYING using tools and being DEPENDENT on using tools.

If you LIKE using tools, and are in a financial, geographic and social position where you can use them, but you choose not to, then you're just robbing yourself of enjoyment for no purpose, which isn't a virtue

If you DON'T like using tools, and you don't use them, then you're just doing what you like. Which is great, but not really any more mature than the person who likes using tools and does what they like.

In short, use or non-use of tools doesn't say anything about how advanced a practitioner is. Only their relationship to their tools or non-use of tools tells you anything about them

Well put!

Post automatically merged: Dec 30, 2023

I've found wands on nature walks and consecrated them even literally with blood sweat and tears. I've also snapped that wand in half once as a show of my not being dependant on it.

powerful practice