Do you think Trump is a practitioner ?

[zamradiel]

You mean Erzulie Dantor, I believe. Petwo aspect, tied directly to the Haitian Revolution.

As for the idea of “cursing” someone like a sitting or former POTUS... think of it like trying to redirect the current from a high-voltage transmission line with a copper wire from a desk lamp. The man is a system node, not a socket.

Energy at that scale is bidirectional; it flows through every polarity - worship, hatred, devotion, disgust. To move the needle, you’d need an equivalent current of will and alignment, not just emotion. Otherwise, it’s wishful thinking with incense.

Do I think a group of pink hair witchtok account practitioners could successfully curse trump if given an advanced grimoire ? Possibly.

Erzulie Freda being invoked by Haitian Vodou High Priestess Cecile Fatiman and Dutty Boukman to incite the Haitian Revolution. Many of the french on the island actually died of yellow fever before being killed by Haitian revolutionists.

That being said, a majority of curses and hexes don't get granted because people aren't willing to fullfill the exchange necessary to get the petition granted.

 

[supremecoyote]

You mean Erzulie Dantor, I believe. Petwo aspect, tied directly to the Haitian Revolution.

As for the idea of “cursing” someone like a sitting or former POTUS... think of it like trying to redirect the current from a high-voltage transmission line with a copper wire from a desk lamp. The man is a system node, not a socket.

Energy at that scale is bidirectional; it flows through every polarity - worship, hatred, devotion, disgust. To move the needle, you’d need an equivalent current of will and alignment, not just emotion. Otherwise, it’s wishful thinking with incense.

Thank you !! I meant to put Dantor but it was late, I was tired, and my brain was fried. I personally work with Erzulie Freda lol.

But yeah I would have to agree, that's why I haven't even bothered putting any of my own energy into "cursing/hexing" him because I understand that it would take a lot more than just me stewing at my altar by myself to do anything tangible. I also trust in the idea of what comes up must go down and I know he'll be dealt with in due time. Whether by some divine intervention, natural causes or human intervention.

Like you said, the man is like a vortex of siphoning energy. Similar to a tornado who destroys anything in its path regardless of how you feel about it. Self deification if you were able to turn yourself into a living breathing natural disaster.

I agree that you would need an equal force of energy to stop somebody like Trump, if you were an opposing witch / magician.


If a hurricane hits the coast, does thoughts and prayers stop the hurricane? no.
( This is how I look at it )

But all storms have to end somehow. And a lot of us will be here to help rebuild communities and fix the mess he left. Instead of focusing my anger on hating Trump and putting curses on him, It's much more productive to put that energy into grounding, cleansing and helping communities affected. Because I can't control his actions or the government's, I can only control my own.

I did find it interesting with his comment when he said " I would like to get into heaven", that's kinda what got me thinking about what's going on with him spiritually. Because what an interesting thing to say, given everything he's done since the 70s.

Which is why I started this thread if anyone else had similar thoughts

 

[zamradiel]

I completely agree with that. The part about helping rebuild after the storm really stuck with me. It’s easy to get caught in outrage, but turning that energy toward healing and grounding feels like the real path forward. That’s the kind of work that actually restores something.

But all storms have to end somehow. And a lot of us will be here to help rebuild communities and fix the mess he left. Instead of focusing my anger on hating Trump and putting curses on him, It's much more productive to put that energy into grounding, cleansing and helping communities affected. Because I can't control his actions or the government's, I can only control my own.

I did find it interesting with his comment when he said " I would like to get into heaven", that's kinda what got me thinking about what's going on with him spiritually. Because what an interesting thing to say, given everything he's done since the 70s.

Which is why I started this thread if anyone else had similar thoughts

 

[Seimulluh]

Makes you wonder why would they still do this

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Just a tradition or something else?

 

[Morell]

Makes you wonder why would they still do this

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Just a tradition or something else?

Depends on their faith. (and on how true their faith in these traditions is)

 

[Mystic_friend]

I have my thoughts.... something to do with Epstein on the Island and potentially a pact with Moloch. It would make more sense for him to have a pact with SOMETHING rather than just pure luck to go from 34 time felon to King. I've heard musings of Hitler dabbling in black magick as well. So idk , I don't think i'm far off. I'll do some divination and post my results in the chat.

ya all politicians and rich ppl are practitioners well most rich people are, the ones who aren't are born into old money and their money does not last after it goes into their hands but the ones with very very old money 100% are practioners

 

[MorganBlack]

Trump, whom I did not vote for, just saying, if i recall accurately , attended a Prosperity Gospel church.

For people outside the U.S., Property Gospel is a very American form of Christian mind power / Law of Attraction. New Thought is behind American positivity and optimism , and could accurately be seen as our default shared form of magic.

I can't say if Orange Man is specifically a practitioner any more than anyone else here. Pretty much most Americans are. We grow up on this stuff. Taking a 'moment of silence' before playing in a football game is have a some time "living from the end" and manifesting the reality your team is being cheered for winning.

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[zamradiel]

I'm honestly struggling to follow the logic here. The leaps you're making - Trump, Prosperity Gospel, to Law of Attraction, to New Thought, to American cultural "default magic" to football teams "manifesting victory", what? It feels like five entirely different conversations stitched together and presented as one coherent insight.

Prosperity Gospel isn't New Thought, New Thought is not Law of Attraction, and none of that automatically transforms ordinary American rituals into unconscious magical practice. A moment of silence before a game is just that: a pause, not mass occult manifestation.

I'm not sure what point you're actually trying to land here, because everything is being blended into such a wide generalization that it stops meaning anything.

Trump, whom I did not vote for, just saying, if i recall accurately , attended a Prosperity Gospel church.

For people outside the U.S., Property Gospel is a very American form of Christian mind power / Law of Attraction. New Thought is behind American positivity and optimism , and could accurately be seen as our default shared form of magic.

I can't say if Orange Man is specifically a practitioner any more than anyone else here. Pretty much most Americans are. We grow up on this stuff. Taking a 'moment of silence' before playing in a football game is have a some time "living from the end" and manifesting the reality your team is being cheered for winning.

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[MorganBlack]

I'm honestly struggling to follow the logic here. The leaps you're making

Yeah? So what?

I'm presetting tools-for-thinking about the main topic, "Do you think Trump is a practitioner ?"

If you are not American you may not be aware of our various native magical traditions.
Trump, I am sure you are aware is American, and I was suggesting the odds are he is at least aware of American mind magic - and presented interesting evidence he had been exposed to this kind of magic, that he attended a Prosperity Gospel church.
I even talked about how most Americans are exposed to it, in some form.
I then left it as an open question if he practices it himself, to let other people to decide for themselves.

See? It's really not that hard to follow.

 

[Kepler]

With how many skilled practitioners are actively and intently cursing him now, and yet nothing seems to be sticking, I really can't help but speculate there's other things at play here. things of a metaphysical/ unseen nature.

Workings that frame him as a symptom or even a tool of a larger political psycheorganism, like Apep in the Book Against Apophis, may be more effective. The status of the operator in relation to Ra would be touchstone, or grass maybe as the kids say, to be aligned with the real Universe as Temple.

 

[supremecoyote]

Yeah? So what?

I'm presetting tools-for-thinking about the main topic, "Do you think Trump is a practitioner ?"

If you are not American you may not be aware of our various native magical traditions.
Trump, I am sure you are aware is American, and I was suggesting the odds are he is at least aware of American mind magic - and presented interesting evidence he had been exposed to this kind of magic, that he attended a Prosperity Gospel church.
I even talked about how most Americans are exposed to it, in some form.
I then left it as an open question if he practices it himself, to let other people to decide for themselves.

See? It's really not that hard to follow.

I very much align with the idea that money in itself is an egregore, so yeah if Trump worships money and himself then perhaps with that logic he could be a practitioner of some sort. He gives me chaotic evil left hand path vibes. If he consciously practices is up to speculation. I also think Trump in himself is an "egregore" too, even when he kicks the bucket there will be maga followers keeping his cult together.

 

[Sabbatius]

Trump is a narcissist, not a magician.
Whether anyone here voted for him or not, his directions are sincere simply because he implemented a populist, agenda driven campaign. It's not magic, but the tides changed heavily after the last President permitted a flood of illegal immigrants to enter without vetting anyone- and I lost- family members and friends, including their kids, who were murdered by illegals- because of bad border protocol. A major change was needed, whether anyone here liked it or not.

 

[supremecoyote]

Trump is a narcissist, not a magician.
Whether anyone here voted for him or not, his directions are sincere simply because he implemented a populist, agenda driven campaign. It's not magic, but the tides changed heavily after the last President permitted a flood of illegal immigrants to enter without vetting anyone- and I lost- family members and friends, including their kids, who were murdered by illegals- because of bad border protocol. A major change was needed, whether anyone here liked it or not.

Well this discussion wasn't prompted to really talk about his policies as a president...Yes I would agree he's a narcissistic. However, Me and you are going to have to agree to disagree on our opinions over the "major changes" needed over immigration to not get into an unnecessary flame war.

 

[Sabbatius]

Well this discussion wasn't prompted to really talk about his policies as a president...Yes I would agree he's a narcissistic. However, Me and you are going to have to agree to disagree on our opinions over the "major changes" needed over immigration to not get into an unnecessary flame war.

Considering your initial post was already being inflammatory, we will leave it at this- and agree to disagree.

 

[supremecoyote]

inflammatory- to arouse anger or violent feelings.

My initial post was simply prompting a question revolving around magick and a very notable albeit controversial and trending politician. I really don't think there's any harm in speculating and discussion, I've been very open to hearing everyone's opinion regardless if It differs from mine or not.

If it angered you or caused you to have violent feelings, highly recommend doing shadow work to navigate through that.

 

[Yazata]

Me and you are going to have to agree to disagre

we will leave it at this- and agree to disagree.

You both are being adults. Very good.
Have a great Sunday whether you wear a red or blue cap.

 

[zamradiel]

I'm not misunderstanding you. I'm pointing out that your framing is so broad that it collapses distinctions that actually matter to the argument.

Prosperity Gospel, New Thought, Law of Attraction, and cultural default magic aren't interchangeable systems. They come from different genealogies, use different mechanisms, and serve different functions. So when they get blended together as if they're one unified tradition, the claim loses precision.

Saying "Trump was exposed to Prosperity Gospel" is true.
Jumping from that to "therefore he's aware of American mind-magic traditions" is a much larger leap.

It's not about being American or not. It's about maintaining conceptual clarity instead of treating unrelated ideas as evidence of a coherent magical framework.

You left it as an open question, which is fine. I'm just saying the way you built up to that question was too undifferentiated to be persuasive.

Yeah? So what?

I'm presetting tools-for-thinking about the main topic, "Do you think Trump is a practitioner ?"

If you are not American you may not be aware of our various native magical traditions.
Trump, I am sure you are aware is American, and I was suggesting the odds are he is at least aware of American mind magic - and presented interesting evidence he had been exposed to this kind of magic, that he attended a Prosperity Gospel church.
I even talked about how most Americans are exposed to it, in some form.
I then left it as an open question if he practices it himself, to let other people to decide for themselves.

See? It's really not that hard to follow.

 

[MorganBlack]

the way you built up to that question was too undifferentiated to be persuasive.

Except I wasn't trying to persuade anyone of anything. I don't debate and I don't recruit to my view. I only share and I much prefer open questions and broad discussions rather than cheap, fast, reductive solutions to questions. But you do you, buckaroo.

There's a joke.
Q: How many psychiatrists does it take to change a light bulb?
A: Only one, but the light bulb has to want to change.

Debates never change anyone's mind who isn't open to it.

I'm high Openness on the Big 5 Personality traits, and in the 90th percentile (P) Perceiving ENXP. Judgey 'J's' and Low Openness people and I don't mix well. I find them tiresome and boring , and they find me too uncommital.

 

[zamradiel]

All good. I'm not trying to debate or convert anyone either. I was only responding to the content of what you wrote, not your personality type.

If your goal was open discussion, that's fine... but when you mix five unrelated traditions together under one umbrella and call it American mind magic, it's reasonable for someone to ask what that phrase actually means.

My confusion wasn't a lack of openness, it was a lack of definition. I'm perfectly happy to discuss it, I just like to know what terms are pointing to.

ENXP isn't an MBTI type. Did you mean ENFP or ENTP?

Also, personality labels aside, I don't think curiosity and clarity are opposites.

Except I wasn't trying to persuade anyone of anything. I don't debate and I don't recruit to my view. I only share and I much prefer open questions and broad discussions rather than cheap, fast, reductive solutions to questions. But you do you, buckaroo.

There's a joke.
Q: How many psychiatrists does it take to change a light bulb?
A: Only one, but the light bulb has to want to change.

Debates never change anyone's mind who is is not open to it.

I'm high Openness on the Big 5 Personality traits, and in the 90th percentile (P) Perceiving on ENXP. Judgey 'J's' and Low Openness people and I don't mix well. I find them tiresome and boring , and they find me too uncommital.

 

[Yazata]

Let's keep it on the topic of whether Trump is the Grand wizard or not. Make a new thread if you want to talk about something else