Does anyone else see the gender divide in practices?

[bramblecreature]

I think that women are sold a more consumerist view of spirituality, I definitely see it a lot in more women dominated spirituality spaces, I see spirituality or at least the mutilated remnants of it sold as "aesthetic", another cutsey mug with the triple moon, fast fashion prints and Amazon ritual tools, most other women I meet when they say they're a witch too they mean a very entry level Wiccan who does tarot or horoscopes on occasion, they learnt spells from content creators, there's a crucial removal of deep mediation and regular ritual, instead favouring deity work and love spells (more things to buy without understanding) and my pet theory is it's on purpose to keep women compliant, women who could've been amazing witches or sorceresses lobotomised by the myth of easy spirituality sold to them.

 

[otherworldlymage]

I agree with you fully until the last part. I think women are more easily swayed by the emotions and feelings of magic but they are easy to manipulate by content creators due to that consumerism bend. There is no conspiracy for compliance, just capitalism.

Nothing in my comment is against women in any way, just like OP said, it is a societal trend that influences them a lot.

 

[bramblecreature]

like I said it's only a pet theory not something incredibly serious but I do understand the driving factor is the insatiable appetite of capitalism to turn anything sacred into something to sell mindlessly

 

[Sabbatius]

like I said it's only a pet theory not something incredibly serious but I do understand the driving factor is the insatiable appetite of capitalism to turn anything sacred into something to sell mindlessly

Capitalism itself is not the issue, but marketing. I deal with Plastic Shamans about seven times a year at Jintamok, Pow-wows, Festivals, Seasonal Dances and any other gatherings, Tribal and Inter-Tribal. Plastic Shaman always trying to sell goods, retreats and services in the name of authenticity, as many of the Tribes allow vendors outside of the Circles.

In the case of Sexes, the market gears more traditional sales toward, though the word itself is a modern conception to sew modern concepts, "Gender"-Specific consumers the wares, as generic and cheap as they may be. Tarot over the years have become cheaper, in quality and in some cases, pricing. When a product becomes easier to obtain, expect the quality to sink. Much of Tarot has been marketed towards women. Much of the more Wicca/Witchcraft has been marketed towards women. Surprising, much of the Heathen market has shifted towards women as well. What has been Shamanism, mostly Core, is a boat full of women, mostly pale-skinned European women teachers who profess some "harmonious Earth healing energy techniques!" to the masses.

Either the Males of Magic are quiet, or so outspoken that I have nothing in common with most of the Marketed materials. Druidry is about the most even of the Sexes as far as professed teachers and sellers of wares goes.

I am not Anti-Capitalist but Pro-Consumer Control. We should be able to call a Spade as a Spade publicly. I have had to publicly call out vendors, or as many call "Plastic Shaman," for selling garbage and false products and services at functions- however, I have had to face Law Enforcement in the process.

 

[Asteriskos]

Awfully well said, additionally I'm married to a witch, I wouldn't want to be some dork that attempted to market some bull$hit to her. She's "extremely opinionated". One of the reasons I married her! Not all female practitioners are easily victimized. "Caveat emptor" applies to us all.

 

[Morell]

I think that women are sold a more consumerist view of spirituality, I definitely see it a lot in more women dominated spirituality spaces, I see spirituality or at least the mutilated remnants of it sold as "aesthetic", another cutsey mug with the triple moon, fast fashion prints and Amazon ritual tools, most other women I meet when they say they're a witch too they mean a very entry level Wiccan who does tarot or horoscopes on occasion, they learnt spells from content creators, there's a crucial removal of deep mediation and regular ritual, instead favouring deity work and love spells (more things to buy without understanding) and my pet theory is it's on purpose to keep women compliant, women who could've been amazing witches or sorceresses lobotomised by the myth of easy spirituality sold to them.

Well, I suppose you get your option from social network mainly. Truth is that girls are more vocal, so they flood the net, especially the crap making girls, which really manipulates one's opinion.

However, there definitely is inclination different to the genders that I've noticed on events where you could meet card readers, astrologers etc. and pay for reading. There I saw real people and all were serious practitioners doing it for the living, they were profesionals, if it could be said about them. Easy look around and I noticed:

Most of card readers are female
Most of astrologers and analysis people are male

In conclusion female practitioners are obviously more attracted to practices based on feelings, art, and intuitive guessing. Males are more attracted to cold analysis practices providing them with tables, numbers, math, clear data in other words.

There were of course also girls astrologists and male tarot readers, but as the general inclinations go, it seems to be the same as in other areas of life.

 

[MorganBlack]

Please allow me to preface this and say I have a soft spot for Wiccans as nice, nature mystics, so I hope this doesn't come across as too harsh. Good folks.

I've noticed this same divide mentioned here, and see it as a kind of psychological speciation. Coming from the game industry, I usually see it less about gender, and more about a kind of Bartle’s Player Types localized to magic/ occult /paranormal vs neopagan / religious / social market segments.

For an intro to Bartle’s Player Types see:

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From personal observation, while not 100% true of each, they are usually not driven by the pursuit of excellence (Exploration / Achievement/ Mastery), as we magicians tend to be.

I suspect most of us here are more driven by exploration, (with a few LARPing Killers gumming up the conversations) , and so we're only about 10% of any IRL player base.

80% of people are motivated by socialization, and neo-paganism's sales pitch is meant to target the socializers, and get them to buy the endless bilge-pump of glitter, crystals, and kit to appeal on social media. So over time, and we are talking a couple of decades here, they all self-select and balkanize themselves into groups all made of specific psychological type - until we get what we have today - boss level lifestyle marketing for the Instagram social influencers looking for a second income.

As a teen in the 80's I knew Wiccans then, and they could all talk Crowley and Kaballah. We were the same people. Moden paganism had not yet been dumbed down for mid-wits. But it was inveitable , as their language becomes less about magic and more about belonging, to get what we see today.

 

[SeekerPS]

I agree in respect that there are a lot of female teenagers sold a lot of “witchtok” memery. But i would say the same applies for men and the romantic fantasy of french black magician/Faustian demon pact maker with all the soul selling and sacrificing. It’s just that one of those two is much more easily marketable and sellable than the other tho.

 

[Asteriskos]

I agree in respect that there are a lot of female teenagers sold a lot of “witchtok” memery. But i would say the same applies for men and the romantic fantasy of french black magician/Faustian demon pact maker with all the soul selling and sacrificing. It’s just that one of those two is much more easily marketable and sellable than the other tho.

Some of them learn to spell "BALG" even before they can spell "MAGIC/K"!

 

[Anziel_Merkaba]

Some of them learn to spell "BALG" even before they can spell "MAGIC/K"!

The BALG forums used to be actually decent at one point, but then they turned into a complete shitshow.

As for the OP's take, while he is right about the commercialization of spirituality, it's less about da wahmen and more about tricking gullible people into spending money on an aesthetic that makes them feel unique, even if the only thing unique about them is their very specific form of made-up mental illness they got after spending too much time on X.

 

[Wintruz]

I think that women are sold a more consumerist view of spirituality, I definitely see it a lot in more women dominated spirituality spaces, I see spirituality or at least the mutilated remnants of it sold as "aesthetic", another cutsey mug with the triple moon, fast fashion prints and Amazon ritual tools, most other women I meet when they say they're a witch too they mean a very entry level Wiccan who does tarot or horoscopes on occasion, they learnt spells from content creators, there's a crucial removal of deep mediation and regular ritual, instead favouring deity work and love spells (more things to buy without understanding) and my pet theory is it's on purpose to keep women compliant, women who could've been amazing witches or sorceresses lobotomised by the myth of easy spirituality sold to them.

I'm perhaps not qualified to hold forth on the general behaviours of women in the marketplace but...

This, in the West, is very much a witchcraft thing and although (post the rejig of Sabrina, maybe even post the Coven season of AHS) the commodification and ill-advised witchy ornaments does seem to be widespread again, this is nothing new. Anyone who might remember the early 00s when a British franchise about a certain boy wizard was at its height, will back me up in the horrors that were inflicted upon the occultist who dared go shopping. The "Teen Witch" books were endless but they, even though they all said the same thing, were at the less egregious end of things. Plastic "crystals", pop-up books of goddesses ("Your very own altar!"), an eternity of mugs, t-shirts, car stickers proclaiming "Witch in training" and similar. What you're seeing is the same phenomenon in the age of TikTok. Witchcraft is, as any horror movie director or costume shop in October knows, big business. A lot of people engage in a temporary fantasy of being a witch. Few who get serious about it will last more than a year or two, if that long.

Does it keep women compliant? I think there are two answers to that. One reminds me of a female megastar (I think it may have been Madonna) who, when asked if more space should be made for women in the music industry said "No. Any woman who needs the space creating for her won't last long and any woman who is going to last won't wait for permission before she takes the space by force". The number of people destined or capable of true greatness in magic is extremely small. The balance of factors needed are so precise that, if they are present, nothing will stop her/him from doing what they need to. They may be waylaid for a time but they'll push through that if the obsession with magic is strong enough. In other words, I don't think we're losing great talents because of WitchTok.

However, I do think that the commodification has a very real and very destructive impact on the world at large, aside from the obvious ecological impact of all this buying. It robs the symbols (pentagrams, etc.) of power through overuse. They are no longer revered as something one might find in a circle or even on the cover of a book. When they're everywhere, they break an associative link in the psyche. More damaging still is that the commodification instils the idea that magic is both purchasable and democratic. It simply isn't. There are people who, through boredom or because it's en vogue, will pursue magic (for a short period - before saying "It's all nonsense" or calling it "a phase") when they are totally wrong for it. This wastes their time, pushes up the manufacture of yet more awful products and, worst of all, distracts these people from areas where they could be doing fulfilling and useful work.

 

[AbammonTheGreat]

I spend alot of time around different types of spiritual spaces.

I am a hypnotherapist and a lot of that industry borders the self help and new age industry. It is heavily marketed towards women. I find that most of the women in those spaces are the ones buying courses, certifications, and classes while the men in those spaces are usually the ones selling.

On top of this I got involved in my local witch and psychic community a few years back and ended up marrying one of them. I did this to get perspective on female dominated magic and occultism as I spent a decade around male-centric LHP and ceremonial magic. It was eye opening entering that world and learning from those women who have a lot more intuitive and natural approach to magic. They also spend a lot more time bent towards healing (as well as alot more baneful magic) as opposed to the ambitious nature of the male dominated occult spaces. Learning from witches and mediums helped me refocus my practice on helping others dealing with people on a more relational level when using magic. They also helped me get a lot better at scrying and clairaudience.

And then when we're talking about marketing and consumerism... marketing towards women makes a business more money. Women are more brand loyal and dedicated customers. I have a podcast and we have to do a lot of episodes that gear towards things women are interested in to grow our audience and get more listening hours. The women tend to binge the podcast when they discover it while the men stumble across an episode and listen to just one and move on. If you are trying to sell something or market something do a test run with a product marketed towards women's interests and youll see double/triple engagement/sales a lot of the times. Smart businesses and smart marketing targets women.

 

[silencewaits]

Because women and queer people make up the majority of that market. It is a calculated (whether conscious or not) mechanism of capitalism. Furthermore, dominant (surface) strands of spirituality are seen as patriarchal or male-dominated. The majority of people do not seek much beyond the surface regardless of their gender. This leads to what you have observed. A similar phenomenon is queer symbols being co-opted by pink capitalism (companies changing their logo to a Pride flag, the Pride flag itself being on everything you can imagine). My theory is that as we collectively move towards a higher state of consciousness, we approach the Abyss, just as an individual magician approaches it. The feature of the Abyss termed "Choronzon" by mainstream occultism makes itself present through Capital, as described by Nick Land--but that's getting off-topic.

I think women tend to possess greater magical potential than men. Their personal character, like that of all people, is a different matter entirely. The hoops that unbalanced men have to jump through to produce the same effects a magically-inclined women can would be an obvious example. The West, and most current civilizations, tend to retain a patriarchal ethos. The "masculine principle" and the abstractions produced therefrom has overdeveloped to the point that it has become cancerous.

 

[aviaf]

While I see and understand the observations about commercialization and gendered trends, I’d frame it a bit differently: magick is a lovely, lonely path. Most of the books and materials being published today are, frankly, garbage—skeletons without the meat. They can show structure, history, and theory, but they can’t give the life of magick itself. That life comes from direct experience: deep ritual, brutal self-honesty, meditation, and confronting the void.

The internet and forums are useful tools to meet other seekers, but the real work happens in the mud, fire, and sleepless nights of practice. If you can’t find a real witch or magician to walk that path with, find a crystal hoarder and teach her the real shit. Those who survive the fire, who get their hands dirty and their dresses ruined, are the ones no fake spell, kit, or Instagram aesthetic can touch. Everything else is glitter.