Dreams of Goetic Spirits During My Studies — How Should I Proceed Safely?

[claywas]

Hello,

I am here to find answers to some things that have been confusing me for a while.

First, during my tarot training, when we came to the Death card, I noticed that another name for the card is Nun, and then I realized that Nun is also mentioned as another name associated with Valac. After that, even though I previously had no connection with it, I suddenly became very interested in the Ars Goetia book.

Then, despite never having heard the name before, I saw Belial in my dream. He asked me for obedience and respect. I refused him.
The person who gives us training later told me that both of my reactions in the dream were very positive. However, even though I asked for more details, they did not explain further.

After some time passed, I had another dream where I saw myself drawing the sigil of Orobas with white sand.

In the most recent dream I remember repeating the name King Paimon many times.

I have never had any evocation or invocation experience before. However, I do have several sources, and I am trying to read and understand them carefully. In addition, every day I practice LBRP, LBRH, and the Middle Pillar exercise. (Someone once told me that these practices are completely just for show.)

At the point where I currently stand, what kind of path should I follow?
Or how should I interpret these experiences I have been having?
And what would be the safest approach if one wanted to perform an evocation?

Thank you all in advance.
Kind regards.

 

[Diazin]

Evocation is the last thing you want to try if you are not a experient practioner. First because without the necessary willpower you will probably get nothing to happen at all in the best case scenario, and in the worst you may end up drawing attention of malicious spirits that may see you as a prey, and they can act in very subtle ways to mess with you, you'd never suspect. Evocation is an art of violence and cohersion. Its basically aligning the spirit to recognize the divinity in you, and making him obedient through that divinity. The Lemegeton is a complete system in its own regard, divided in five steps where the Ars Goetia is the last one in the ladder. You start by finding your connection to the divine by practicing the Ars Notoria, where one is expected to have his intellect and soul illuminated, and then progress down on dealing with God's creatures through the other four books, the Ars Almadel for the genii of the degrees of zodiac, the Ars Paulina for how their influences are distributed through the hours of the day and night, Theurgia-Goetia (here is where evil spirits begin to appear) for the genii working on the four winds and last the Ars Goetia for dealing with the spirits that are out of the Grace of God, whose reason for their disgrace is attributed to their pride. And while some of those spirits are fairly approachable like Orobas, some are very complicated, to say the least, like Asmoday.

If you want to play safe here, drop the intent to try to evoke those beings for now. Instead, approach the forces you recognize as benefical to you and ask for clarification on what is happening.

 

[Tehuti]

Hello,

I am here to find answers to some things that have been confusing me for a while.

First, during my tarot training, when we came to the Death card, I noticed that another name for the card is Nun, and then I realized that Nun is also mentioned as another name associated with Valac. After that, even though I previously had no connection with it, I suddenly became very interested in the Ars Goetia book.

Then, despite never having heard the name before, I saw Belial in my dream. He asked me for obedience and respect. I refused him.
The person who gives us training later told me that both of my reactions in the dream were very positive. However, even though I asked for more details, they did not explain further.

After some time passed, I had another dream where I saw myself drawing the sigil of Orobas with white sand.

In the most recent dream I remember repeating the name King Paimon many times.

I have never had any evocation or invocation experience before. However, I do have several sources, and I am trying to read and understand them carefully. In addition, every day I practice LBRP, LBRH, and the Middle Pillar exercise. (Someone once told me that these practices are completely just for show.)

At the point where I currently stand, what kind of path should I follow?
Or how should I interpret these experiences I have been having?
And what would be the safest approach if one wanted to perform an evocation?

Thank you all in advance.
Kind regards.

Prince Orobas from personal experience is a cool spirit to work as a beginner, his patience and very truthful to practioner when approach respectful. I have a simple and effective way I mostly approach demons. Firstly see demons as guides and approach them more as a student to a teacher method. 1. Draw the sigil of Prince Orobas yourself whiles playing is mantra and repeating it, add your name and date of birth behind it and your intention, like for example to learn or you want an introduction.
2 . Prepare a blessed water by adding Vinegar or Florida water to a glass of water.
3. Place a sigil in it and chant His mantra on in the glass with the blessed water, keep it for three days around your bed , in each night you can chant his mantra and on the third day add the mixture to your water and rinse yourself as a form of ritual bath with it.
4. I can assure your before the third day he may appear to yiu in a dream to communicate with you. This method can use to establish communication with most goetic Demons

 

[A.A.S.B]

Hello,

I am here to find answers to some things that have been confusing me for a while.

First, during my tarot training, when we came to the Death card, I noticed that another name for the card is Nun, and then I realized that Nun is also mentioned as another name associated with Valac. After that, even though I previously had no connection with it, I suddenly became very interested in the Ars Goetia book.

Then, despite never having heard the name before, I saw Belial in my dream. He asked me for obedience and respect. I refused him.
The person who gives us training later told me that both of my reactions in the dream were very positive. However, even though I asked for more details, they did not explain further.

After some time passed, I had another dream where I saw myself drawing the sigil of Orobas with white sand.

In the most recent dream I remember repeating the name King Paimon many times.

I have never had any evocation or invocation experience before. However, I do have several sources, and I am trying to read and understand them carefully. In addition, every day I practice LBRP, LBRH, and the Middle Pillar exercise. (Someone once told me that these practices are completely just for show.)

At the point where I currently stand, what kind of path should I follow?
Or how should I interpret these experiences I have been having?
And what would be the safest approach if one wanted to perform an evocation?

Thank you all in advance.
Kind regards.

The answer will depend on your particular path.
I would recommend making yourself reasonably familiar with Jake stratton kents work.
Would not recommend that you go down the skinner recommend old school coercion way if you still feel the need to ask this question, that may not be suitable for you right now.
Also check out Frater Achers essays on the subject available on his website for free.

 

[Amadeus]

I started with LBRP, LIRP, MP and tons of psalms. Something similar happened.

The first time I picked up the Lemegeton some of them came right away into my dreams. This happened a long time ago and I can't remember who was the first one. Possibly Vassago or Orobas, then Sallos, Marbas, Andromalius, a few more.
I didn't know grimoires could work that easily. The problem was that I didn't understand much and some of the cases led to "corruption of the mind". They came, spoke, and sometimes something happened right away, random requests got granted. The corruption, thoughts came and something attempted to manipulate, extreme aggression as well. I remember how I felt the spirit around and then once I recognized it, there was a feeling of something departing. Sensation of something moving away.

One case happened after reading about Belial. I saw a hallway, some throne room and floating sigil like discs in the air left and right.

The rituals you mentioned, LBRP, MP, they are good and many start from them. Middle pillar works great as a mantra, chanted over and over again. It opens your connections, makes you sensitive.

 

[FireBorn]

I disagree with the framing that evocation is inherently an act of violence and coercion. That may be true inside a particular system or framework, especially certain Solomonic approaches, but it is not a universal law of evocation. Other practitioners approach spirits relationally, devotionally, as teachers, as allies, or through other methods entirely. Those are not all the same animal.

I would also be careful with assuming that Goetic work automatically draws malicious spirits while other ceremonial practices are somehow clean and safe by default. The OP is already practicing LBRP, LBRH, and the Middle Pillar. So either those rituals have real spiritual/energetic efficacy, or they do not. If they do, then the OP is already engaging forces, names, currents, and ritual contact in some form. If they do not, then we should be honest about what we think those rituals are doing. Or just stop doing them altogether, because it reads like they are meaningless busywork you want to assign new practitioners, cant have it both ways. That makes my teeth itch.

I also do not agree with the assumption that demons are inherently more dangerous than angels. Angelic current can be every bit as intense, dangerous, terrifying, and transformative as demonic current, just in a different way. “Angel” does not automatically mean safe, and “demon” does not automatically mean reckless.

Lots of practitioners dont go through all four books before touching the Goetia, especially LHP practitioners. Some go straight to it and have profound, useful, successful experiences. That does not mean everyone should rush in blindly, but it does mean no one system has ownership over the path.

At the end of the day, we share our experiences and frameworks so others can compare notes and make better choices. That has value. But stating framework specific rules as universal occult law is where I think things get muddy and stupid pretty fast.

YMMV.

 

[MorganBlack]

Absolutely realize the truth of one's own Divinity, in whatever mythic framework that works for you. (The Hermetic version works: "You are God," as well as the Catholic version, "You are Imago Dei," made in the image of God. Same deal. Even the more anodyne New Age, "You are source / universe" work too. )

In my experience, the daimons actually want and need that from us, for a variety of reasons. I think we provide Logos as "Creativity in Space-Time" options for them to work through.

While it's not my thing, you can totally use the Shem angels if that is how you express your own sense of Self. The Goetia of Dr. Rudd by Stephen Skinner and David Rankine is an excellent introduction to conjuring overall, even if one does not use Shem angels (who are awesome, I have found. I just don't mix them into Goetia using Verum).

After that, spend time getting on the side of the Three Chiefs of the Infernal Hierarchy: Lucifer, Belzebuth, and Astaroth (or Satan in some systems). You are not evoking/conjuring them to visible appearance. You are calling them forth to grant you proper access through the Gates of "Hell," the chthonic world.

While I have my suspicions, I don't know what the underworld "really" is, but just take the myths at face value when in ritual. But you are taking an Underworld journey, called katabasis in olden times, so prepare because you will be closer to Death for a while.

Too much death is not healthy. Paranormal researchers have a significant uptick in cancer rates than the general population. Take a cleansing bath afterwards and have mythic rituals that focus on Life, beauty, sunshine, laughter, puppies, babies, butterflies and good coffee with good friends.

The "trick" to more LHP-y diabolist systems is that you can sort of forgo the FORMAL invocation of God and divinity that puts off modern, rationalist Anglo-Protestants, IF you keep the Three Chiefs. You still need to be the Local Demiurge of your Sub-Quantum universe. Nobody is going to do that for you. That's always your job.

2 . Prepare a blessed water by adding Vinegar or Florida water to a glass of water

Totally dig it! Instead of vinegar, try some sugar. "Drawing powder" in Hoodoo is just powdered/confectioners' sugar. Using the Doctrine of Signatures, sour things push away and sweet things draw towards. Vinegar is a souring agent and is often used to either clear or "sour" things in the target's life, or here, maybe even make the daimons "sour-tempered. "