First Word of the LRP

[Allofyoush]

Most traditions I've seen have the first word of the LRP as something like ATOH or ATEH. This is based off the word אתה in hebrew. The main phonetic form sounds closer to ATOH, but the Nekudoth (diacritical vowel marks) allow for ATEH is well (I'm not as educated on the nuances of those; I've only ever seen the pronunciation of ATOH in hebrew though).

However, that's not the core of my question, which is this: why isn't it the word LEKHAH (לך) instead? The word אתה generally translates to "you" while לך translates to "yours". So the LRP is currently saying "You are the kingdom, the strength, the greatness forever, amen" instead of "Yours are the kingdom, the strength, the greatness forever, amen.

Why is it currently ATOH instead of LEKHAH? What are the implications?

 

[Firetree]

It depends on what 'aspect 'of yourself is talking to what aspect of yourself .

'You are' - suggests a higher commanding aspect talking to the lower nature and encouraging that to 'lift up' itself , a bit like a magician might 'command' .

'I am ' suggests only one aspect exists and it is then more of an 'affirmation' .

 

[Allofyoush]

It depends on what 'aspect 'of yourself is talking to what aspect of yourself .

'You are' - suggests a higher commanding aspect talking to the lower nature and encouraging that to 'lift up' itself , a bit like a magician might 'command' .

'I am ' suggests only one aspect exists and it is then more of an 'affirmation' .

I assume it's just talking to the highest god possible for the practitioner. I envision it as confirming the kingship of God, not telling God that they are the sephiroth

 

[Lucien6493]

If you put Atoh in place of Lekhah in the Kaddish you would be blaspheming but I don't think either Mathers, or any of the original coterie, let alone Regardie, had any such scruples. Atoh in English is thou, which is straight up liturgical, but in Hebrew it is "You" which doesn't sound nearly as exalted. So, in the LBRP...Atoh (thou art) is "thine" referring to the divine within the operator even as the microprosopus was said to be the reflection of Adam Kadmon. So, yeah, I do think your suspicions are right on the nose, though there is room for interpretation. I don't use the LBRP at all, but I instinctively translate Atoh as Lekhah (in the possessive). I just can't help myself there.

 

[Allofyoush]

If you put Atoh in place of Lekhah in the Kaddish you would be blaspheming but I don't think either Mathers, or any of the original coterie, let alone Regardie, had any such scruples. Atoh in English is thou, which is straight up liturgical, but in Hebrew it is "You" which doesn't sound nearly as exalted. So, in the LBRP...Atoh (thou art) is "thine" referring to the divine within the operator even as the microprosopus was said to be the reflection of Adam Kadmon. So, yeah, I do think your suspicions are right on the nose, though there is room for interpretation. I don't use the LBRP at all, but I instinctively translate Atoh as Lekhah (in the possessive). I just can't help myself there.

Is that the Cross of Lorraine as your profile pic? I actually had a question regarding the LRP for that as well. It seems the Qabalistic cross incorporates Keter, Malkuth, Gevurah, and Chesed. Why not incorporate Hod and Netzach (like David does in the original Psalm) at the hips? This would still be a Qabalistic cross, but with an extra bar. The rest of the sephirot can also be added, but at that wouldn't technically be a cross anymore.

Also, is לעולם a stand-in for תפארת as well? Otherwise, why not use לעולם ועד אמן at the end and תפארת in the middle of the chest, just like with the MP. Essentially, the LRP could incorporate additional sephiroth within the middle pillar, but I don't understand why not.

 

[Yazata]

Maybe a similarity in sound to AThA (aleph thav aleph) is a reason. This word can translate as "come / join with"
That's how I pronounce it.

 

[Allofyoush]

Maybe a similarity in sound to AThA (aleph thav aleph) is a reason. This word can translate as "come / join with"
That's how I pronounce it.

Oh interesting. So you're saying it's not אתה but also אתא

 

[Lucien6493]

Is that the Cross of Lorraine as your profile pic? I actually had a question regarding the LRP for that as well. It seems the Qabalistic cross incorporates Keter, Malkuth, Gevurah, and Chesed. Why not incorporate Hod and Netzach (like David does in the original Psalm) at the hips? This would still be a Qabalistic cross, but with an extra bar. The rest of the sephirot can also be added, but at that wouldn't technically be a cross anymore.

Also, is לעולם a stand-in for תפארת as well? Otherwise, why not use לעולם ועד אמן at the end and תפארת in the middle of the chest, just like with the MP. Essentially, the LRP could incorporate additional sephiroth within the middle pillar, but I don't understand why not.

As far as I know, the Golden Dawn was going for sonic resonance whenever they used Hebrew, but neither Mathers nor Westcott could speak it, and they were absolutely not doing Kabbalah as that would have been understood by those who wrote/compiled the Zohar, for example. The GD was applying Kabbalistic terminology to a Christian doxology incorporated into a Hermetic theurgy that used the Tree of Life as a framework which could incorporate all and everything into a grand creative synthesis; a universal map of consciousness. Theological discrepancies were glossed over or made to fit after the fact. As far as praxis goes their use of Le Olam had implicit in it the devotional {"and ever, amen") as every Christian would have had it drilled into them from endless repetitions of the Our Father, but in the middle pillar they were not thinking in terms of QBL at all, rather in terms of what they knew, or thought they knew, of yoga.

Which brings us to the Cross of Lorraine, but I will have to get back to you on that...

 

[Allofyoush]

As far as I know, the Golden Dawn was going for sonic resonance whenever they used Hebrew, but neither Mathers nor Westcott could speak it, and they were absolutely not doing Kabbalah as that would have been understood by those who wrote/compiled the Zohar, for example. The GD was applying Kabbalistic terminology to a Christian doxology incorporated into a Hermetic theurgy that used the Tree of Life as a framework which could incorporate all and everything into a grand creative synthesis; a universal map of consciousness. Theological discrepancies were glossed over or made to fit after the fact. As far as praxis goes their use of Le Olam had implicit in it the devotional {"and ever, amen") as every Christian would have had it drilled into them from endless repetitions of the Our Father, but in the middle pillar they were not thinking in terms of QBL at all, rather in terms of what they knew, or thought they knew, of yoga.

Which brings us to the Cross of Lorraine, but I will have to get back to you on that...

You know some juicy stuff. Get back to me on that. I have a ton of questions as to why the rituals are formulated as such. Especially since I'm somewhat familiar with the lurianic tree opposing the hermetic one

 

[r4zorenigma]

It does not matter as much as you understanding what it is.. you are connecting the energies of Keter and the Most High , source of all creation, down to the physical Kingdom (malkuth) through a divine column of light.. As long as you keep that intention, the pronunciation of the word Ateh is not important..

 

[Aeternus]

Most traditions I've seen have the first word of the LRP as something like ATOH or ATEH. This is based off the word אתה in hebrew. The main phonetic form sounds closer to ATOH, but the Nekudoth (diacritical vowel marks) allow for ATEH is well (I'm not as educated on the nuances of those; I've only ever seen the pronunciation of ATOH in hebrew though).

However, that's not the core of my question, which is this: why isn't it the word LEKHAH (לך) instead? The word אתה generally translates to "you" while לך translates to "yours". So the LRP is currently saying "You are the kingdom, the strength, the greatness forever, amen" instead of "Yours are the kingdom, the strength, the greatness forever, amen.

Why is it currently ATOH instead of LEKHAH? What are the implications?

Seeing the last part of your post makes me think that the ritual words attribute the Kingdom, Strength and the Greatness forever to God as per the old ritual formulae at the time the text wad written. You can use Lekhah (לך) instead of Atoh or Ateh.

Both formulas, albeit with a different grammatical structure represent an adoration and appreciation formula to God.