From New Age to Jesus

KjEno186 · Oct 21, 2023

Xenophon said:
there is as much chance of state-mandated Christianity

You missed the point that I was making. If most of your neighbors are Christian and that tradition goes back hundreds of years, the egregore has power no matter what the government tries to do. I have no desire to see a resurgence of religious Fundamentalism any more than I want to see radicals on the other end of the spectrum instigate chaos. Anyway, this is going a bit beyond the intended discussion, so start a new thread in the lounge to discuss the politics of religion if you want.

Xenophon · Oct 21, 2023

KjEno186 said:
You missed the point that I was making. If most of your neighbors are Christian and that tradition goes back hundreds of years, the egregore has power no matter what the government tries to do. I have no desire to see a resurgence of religious Fundamentalism any more than I want to see radicals on the other end of the spectrum instigate chaos. Anyway, this is going a bit beyond the intended discussion, so start a new thread in the lounge to discuss the politics of religion if you want.

I thought you were worried about Fundamentalism resurgent, not that you wanted it. But yeah, that egregore is not quitting just because it has lost chic cachet.
When did topic creep become "am strengsten verboten" online? I was away from internet forums for a while. Once upon a time, afore ol' Billy Gates needed Viagara, conversation was conversation and wended its whimsical way, treacle-toed topic be damned.

8Lou1 · Oct 21, 2023

some say lucifer is the dark side of jesus. i think that if you see lucifer as the light bringer and jesus as the cross carrier that they can have a beautiful working relationship. often we switch sides for during of times. sometimes to work on our self and sometimes to enjoy the work we did. for me the first would be where we are jesus on the cross and the second we have given the cross back to jesus and are relieved that he is the one who took our sins. so in essence feeling relieved cause the struggle is done is a glorification of jesus and lucifer found that spark in you so its also a glorification of his knowledge.

maybe in love become a threesome and shine even more divine as before.

Konsciencia · Oct 21, 2023

8Lou1 said:
some say lucifer is the dark side of jesus. i think that if you see lucifer as the light bringer and jesus as the cross carrier that they can have a beautiful working relationship. often we switch sides for during of times. sometimes to work on our self and sometimes to enjoy the work we did. for me the first would be where we are jesus on the cross and the second we have given the cross back to jesus and are relieved that he is the one who took our sins. so in essence feeling relieved cause the struggle is done is a glorification of jesus and lucifer found that spark in you so its also a glorification of his knowledge.

maybe in love become a threesome and shine even more divine as before.

I totally agree!

Xenophon · Oct 22, 2023

I doubt much whether one can reconcile Lucifer & Jesus. I have no trouble with conflicts that cannot be patched up. As Kurt Eggers---a Protestant pastor turned journalist turned soldier put it shortly before his death in combat---"To hate can be as noble as to love."

On the other hand, Origen did hint that maybe even Satan could get saved.

8Lou1 · Oct 22, 2023

When you know that god sent satan to earth to rule, you must understand that god is crazy and rome has a homo lane. Either way the trinity should be me, myself and i when one can do that with spirits one lives an occult bloodline and is an endangered species.

Holding 2 opposing thoughts is a strength, but if i remember correctly, you said you have kids. Even for others without kids: seeing 2 things you love eternal fight can hurt a damn lot. Sometimes these 2 things need to be smacked together.

It is said in the same trilogy that humans rule earth. So if i were in accounting i would say both jesus and satan are human. Lucifer is in this case a spirit, as i know @Konsciencia for a while now. jesus is a death human, so might it be so that in order to get guidance under lucifer @Konsciencia had to find the debts of his bloodline and give it up to jesus so lucifer can make him ruler of his line?

Wintruz · Nov 11, 2023

I've seen dozens, if not hundreds, of these stories over the years. I wouldn't read too deeply into them; most of these decisions are made at an instinctual level. What's informing that instinct could be anything from simple psychic chaos (aimlessly moving from thing to thing, looking for a candle in the dark) to beginning to undergo transformation through esoteric practices but getting scared and retreating into something familiar to having experiences with certain symbols.

I do understand the draw though. For most of my adult life I have been on a path (including, at times, extreme manifestations of the path) but all these years later and I still have times of feeling drawn to the church. There is beauty there.

Diluculo_DelFuego · Nov 11, 2023

My dissatisfaction grew within the church where I realized some of the "saints saved by grace" were no different than I, lusting after young (post teenage that is) girls in church, wanting to swipe cash out of the collection plate due to poor finances, begrudging giving, babbling in "tongues" etc. I felt abandoned by God, my last hope. I dabbled again on black magic. No change. So I continued going back to church and loosely following the RHP. As it seemed it should be. Tarot for self meditation and reflection instead of Fortune telling. Doing the LBRP. Etc.
That was my experience anyway.

Xenophon · Nov 12, 2023

Wintruz said:
I've seen dozens, if not hundreds, of these stories over the years. I wouldn't read too deeply into them; most of these decisions are made at an instinctual level. What's informing that instinct could be anything from simple psychic chaos (aimlessly moving from thing to thing, looking for a candle in the dark) to beginning to undergo transformation through esoteric practices but getting scared and retreating into something familiar to having experiences with certain symbols.

I do understand the draw though. For most of my adult life I have been on a path (including, at times, extreme manifestations of the path) but all these years later and I still have times of feeling drawn to the church. There is beauty there.

I imagine the Church won more folks with art than ever they did with rhetoric. Unfortunately church art has fallen on hard times. I remember some years back, my grad-school roomie and I were rather gobsmacked to see what we assumed was a bank branch a-building turn out to be a Babtist Church. I mean the place had a glassed-in lobby and red-brick box for a main structure and all. Likewise, from Gregorian Chant to "Jesus is My Boyfriend" church music....(shudder)

Roma · Nov 12, 2023

Apparently the world has had 16 saviors crucified.

Still, might be worth another try

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Xenophon · Nov 12, 2023

Roma said:
Apparently the world has had 16 saviors crucified.

Still, might be worth another try

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Kinda harsh innit? Mebbe y'all need a new model for soteriology? Or mebbe one cannot save the unsalvageable. (Kind of like universal and compulsory public education.)

Roma · Nov 12, 2023

It may be that the first crucified savior was copied into the mythology of later religions - thereby being attractive to the devotees of the earlier religions

Konsciencia · Nov 12, 2023

Don't forget the Salem Witch trails. Those fuckers.

Wintruz · Nov 12, 2023

Xenophon said:
I imagine the Church won more folks with art than ever they did with rhetoric. Unfortunately church art has fallen on hard times. I remember some years back, my grad-school roomie and I were rather gobsmacked to see what we assumed was a bank branch a-building turn out to be a Babtist Church. I mean the place had a glassed-in lobby and red-brick box for a main structure and all. Likewise, from Gregorian Chant to "Jesus is My Boyfriend" church music....(shudder)

A boon of Orthodoxy; everything is exactly where I left it.

I can't speak much for the Protestants (online, I've seen them use former shopping mall stores as churches...) but Catholics have completely lost their aesthetic senses. Perhaps this is what happens when one's parishioners are no longer French and Italian...

Diluculo_DelFuego · Nov 12, 2023

Funny, the Catholic Church has a long history of exercising the demonically possessed. The Popes Exorcist has a book I think written by the portrayed priest, called "Hostage to the Devil" that I once read. They estimated that in the 90s to 2000s ... They estimated at most 5% of the clergy believed 8n the existence of the Devil.
Forgot for a moment where I was going with this, but it (exorcism) seems to be an uphill comeback.
I guess where I was going with this but the symbolism...it seems to still have an impact on those partially or fully possessed. A shopping mall probably not so much.

Wintruz · Nov 13, 2023

Diluculo_DelFuego said:
Funny, the Catholic Church has a long history of exercising the demonically possessed. The Popes Exorcist has a book I think written by the portrayed priest, called "Hostage to the Devil" that I once read. They estimated that in the 90s to 2000s ... They estimated at most 5% of the clergy believed 8n the existence of the Devil.
Forgot for a moment where I was going with this, but it (exorcism) seems to be an uphill comeback.
I guess where I was going with this but the symbolism...it seems to still have an impact on those partially or fully possessed. A shopping mall probably not so much.

The Traditionalist Catholics are making noticeable inroads and many of them are centred on the Sacred Heart which is, in my opinion, the most beautiful and profound Catholic devotion.

I'm certain that some of those people would like to push a stake through my Heart but, strangely, I admire them for it.

Xenophon · Nov 13, 2023

Wintruz said:
A boon of Orthodoxy; everything is exactly where I left it.

I can't speak much for the Protestants (online, I've seen them use former shopping mall stores as churches...) but Catholics have completely lost their aesthetic senses. Perhaps this is what happens when one's parishioners are no longer French and Italian...

It's what happens when one starts pandering to the circumambient culture. Sadly, an Italian Pope kicked this off, the vastly over-idolized joker who begat Vatican II

Wintruz · Nov 13, 2023

Xenophon said:
It's what happens when one starts pandering to the circumambient culture. Sadly, an Italian Pope kicked this off, the vastly over-idolized joker who begat Vatican II

It's interesting how little has been written of Angelo's formative influences. He was raised poor in the only part of the country in which, at that time, PSI (the mother of the Italian Communist Party) was a secondary political force (with all the attendant mythos of "rising up"). I suspect it was a formative influence on his spirit even if his body remained Italian.

Xenophon · Nov 15, 2023

Wintruz said:
It's interesting how little has been written of Angelo's formative influences. He was raised poor in the only part of the country in which, at that time, PSI (the mother of the Italian Communist Party) was a secondary political force (with all the attendant mythos of "rising up"). I suspect it was a formative influence on his spirit even if his body remained Italian.

So what miscarried? I mean the old time Communists had grit, much as I loathe the bassits. But Vatican II corrupted the Church with nicey-nice. Heaven, we learnt, was best attained by playing "follow the culture." One could be so very much IN the world as to ape it slavishly, but (somehow) not be of that world. Or was the whole shebang a Trojan-horse operation? Destroy the Church by transfusing habitual laxity, spiritual promiscuity? If so, that succeeded well.

Wintruz · Nov 15, 2023

Xenophon said:
So what miscarried? I mean the old time Communists had grit, much as I loathe the bassits. But Vatican II corrupted the Church with nicey-nice. Heaven, we learnt, was best attained by playing "follow the culture." One could be so very much IN the world as to ape it slavishly, but (somehow) not be of that world. Or was the whole shebang a Trojan-horse operation? Destroy the Church by transfusing habitual laxity, spiritual promiscuity? If so, that succeeded well.

PSI were social democrats so not as "gritty" as the Commies (I'd imagine they sprang out because "too much talk, not enough smashy") but certainly allied against Rome's ancien régime.

I think Trojan-horse is about right but unconsciously so: I would imagine that, at a young age, the political environment may have metastasised with "Jesus cares for the poor" type religiosity and that was then carried into his ecclesiastical career. A lot those who have moved Western culture towards where we are now, were unaware that they were doing the Left's work for them I think. The ideologues on the Left weren't.

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