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With the power that magick provides I don't think it's hard to imagine that world powers would want to get this power for themselves. For a while I thought that the upper echelon of society simply didn't believe in mystical powers, but now it becomes more and more obvious to me that they do. I feel like this can be seen predominantly in the treatment of indigenous peoples in America. Religions like vodou and native American practices were wiped out (to prevent the people from having power) and now they keep this power for themselves¹. I think once you become skeptical enough you start seeing this everywhere³. Another more recent example is the Brazilian elections. Many believe that Lula (who is a well known as a diplomatic figure and centrist politician ) was on his way to win the elections on the 1st ballout, but many people felt something weird about 1 hour before the voting countdown, and he went to 2nd ballout against a literal fascist ( he recently used Mussolini's propaganda) Flavinho.
It felt so weird, because everyone was feeling positive. Than, exactly at 4 pm, many people I know, sensitive and not sensitive felt that something changed and Flavinho went up.
Does it really works? And if yes, do we feel like the structures of reality changes in that way?
Look... Half the people I knew at university practided sigil magic to help them pass the exam period. It's obvious there are magical operations in political movements... I'm pretty sure the "shadowy cabals of powerful men doing occult operations to control the world" trope has some basis in reality.
If you want to play in that game, I'd say always keep your roots close, and avoid directly opposing any major current (ie. don't try to plug a firehose with your palm).
Yes, it does work and expect the blowback to be tremendous, if you're going up against the old guard.
I used to be in a renegade coven who dabbled in experiments of the sort. Would I do it again? Absolutely not lol - but with the right amount of resources and fellow magicians at your side, if you've got good talent, a young group of magicians could easily take over. The old guard, is well old. They're looking for new and fresh blood too. The new generation!
It's all very tit for tat. Even the old guard has factions that war against each other. Some of them are here in these forums too. All traditions have its place.
Also Vodou is still active, it's never been wiped out and to be honest, it's a very primordial religion connected to primordial sources. It can't really be wiped out, unless you get rid of all oceans, the air we breathe, the sun, the land and all the plants. It's just practiced secretively. There is an active king and queen of Vodou. The king is well, he's located in Benin, he's kind of chill, more of the showboating type and the Queen is a very beautiful, very strangely magnetic black woman and she's married to a very old white billionaire.
The entire roman state religion was built around this. Rituals, offerings, sacrifices, all meant to use the power of deities to win battles, win wars, and ensure the survival and prosperity of the state. Egypt went a step further - every pharaoh was essentially a wizard-king that had power over the gods and would compel them to do their bidding. John Dee's enochian magick supposedly was behind the downfall of the Spanish Empire and rise of the British Empire, he supposedly manifested the storm that sank the golden fleet.
Of course, this isn't ordinary magick. Simply charging a sigil with the usual methods won't cut it, unless you're the ruling class that can psyop millions of people into powering up a flag through mass egregore-creating propaganda. Child sacrifice, covert through the Epstein network or overt through terrorist attacks & "collateral damage" is routine for them. They also start wars and launch military operations on specific timings to ensure success.
In essense, this kind of magick takes a LOT of power to cast.
Most spirits aren't strong enough to do this on their own, either. You'd need a ritual that provides them with enough juice to affect entire countries, which doesn't sound practical without state-level resources.
Any magick that affects thousands or even millions of people is out of bounds to the ordinary magician. But you don't have to be an ordinary magician. You can either compel a spirit powerful enough to cause this kind of changes, (which is something I have no experience with, not yet at least) or you can master a system that allows you to do this on your own.
Franz Bardon's is one such system, or at least claims as much. In IIH, you learn to condense ridiculous amounts of energy over vast distances. In PME, there's the Mars spirits that can cause wars and disasters. In KTQ, theres formulas for influencing people that can be combined with IIH practices to work on a mass scale, also formulas for manifesting "the greatest miracles", "omnipotence", etc.
I can attest personally that some of this stuff does work and it's fucking terrifying how overwhelming it can be.
I guess anyone wishing to be a mystical partisan would need to look into how the partisans of the physical realm have operated, or operate. No small irregular resistance fighter would ever think of going directly and openly up against an army. That's not heroic, that would be stunningly dumb. You don't draw a circle and summon a servitor to kill [insert powerful figure here] or cast down [insert nation or worldwide movement]. Try plugging a firehose, the water will still come out, and you'll probably get badly hurt.
Manipulating the egregoric collective realm is kinda like river engineering. Not even the highest echelons of the powerful walk up to a river and avatar-style waterbend it into a new shape. You shape a river by finding where it wants to go, and making minimal changes around it so both you and it are satisfied in the end. Sometimes that minimal change is as little as scratching a dam, and everything changes. Just make sure not to get swept up, egregores are useful servants but horrible masters.
È questo il fiore del partigiano
O bella ciao, bella ciao, bella ciao, ciao, ciao!
È questo il fiore del partigiano
Morto per la libertà.
With the power that magick provides I don't think it's hard to imagine that world powers would want to get this power for themselves. For a while I thought that the upper echelon of society simply didn't believe in mystical powers, but now it becomes more and more obvious to me that they do. I feel like this can be seen predominantly in the treatment of indigenous peoples in America. Religions like vodou and native American practices were wiped out (to prevent the people from having power) and now they keep this power for themselves¹. I think once you become skeptical enough you start seeing this everywhere³. Another more recent example is the Brazilian elections. Many believe that Lula (who is a well known as a diplomatic figure and centrist politician ) was on his way to win the elections on the 1st ballout, but many people felt something weird about 1 hour before the voting countdown, and he went to 2nd ballout against a literal fascist ( he recently used Mussolini's propaganda) Flavinho.
It felt so weird, because everyone was feeling positive. Than, exactly at 4 pm, many people I know, sensitive and not sensitive felt that something changed and Flavinho went up.
Does it really works? And if yes, do we feel like the structures of reality changes in that way?
The gradient between what can and can't be done at such a scale is actually very steeply variant on other factors. Some magicians will disagree - incorrectly - but there are certain objective, discriminating mechanisms to magical practice. As we scale up and personal becomes collective, the objective factors start to outweigh the subjective ones and it becomes a bit difficult to theorise without stepping out of the constellation of different systems and practices.
I don't think any system successfully practiced on a personal level would be sufficient to steer the course of society. Certainly it can't be just rituals, even very monumental ones. I suppose if something like that is going on it uses mundane means to manipulate culture, informed and directed by some very powerful entity. In the recent century Envy is probably the strongest player and I wouldn't be very surprised if he was being consciously collaborated with by some among the most influential people.
I agree with @Nembra that rituals alone can't and won't change the world in meaningful ways, but also the way we talk about social change and history has always been a strange contradiction between a story of near misses and knife's edge points of bifurcation, and a story of inevitabilities and inertia.
There are meaningful knife's edge bifurcation points... and every "egregoric" movement with inertia and seeming inevitability is made up of many small human stories and decisions, and meaningful sparks.
In a way, any one of us can become a tipping point or a spark, and we're all parts of the great movements whether we consciously choose it or not. Of course, sitting at home doing abominable rites is probably the wrong way to approach this; one needs to step out, write, talk, publish, organize, do the political work... but it can have a magical component, and looking at those successful in politics, it often obviously does have one...
I remembered this forum today and decided to check it out. Haven’t been here in a long time.
I once had a mentor who worked with geopolitical magic. It’s been used for a long time, and it works. However, it’s easier to do it using an ordinary chessboard, but only at certain moments.
I won’t be answering questions here about “how to do it.”))
In theory, the more abstract the plane of operation the wider the influence. A practical ritual use for the meditations of Liber 536.
Adapting the Book of Overthrowing Apophis has seemingly been effective for geopolitical reprieve using this theory at the solar system level, but there is an Apollonian element to it that is undermined by an innate Dionysian current. Indicating there could be a way to integrate them together into a positive sum synthesis strengthening egalitarian social liberal democracy by expanding ceremonies into the greater cosmological.
Such may involve spiritual visions with hyperphysical entities. Perhaps effectively shared in a peer circle. However, Comenius' Lux e tenebris was about a series of hyperphysical contacts meant to be distributed to European rulers.
My guess would be, behind a lot of closed doors and inside a specific designated vault, absolutely. I think any politician or military commander who's either high enough to have been exposed to or initiated to these kinds of practices (see Freemasonry and similar organizations) has probably done some type of magic to influence or augment their political will to some degree. History shows that at the minimum Astrology was heavily considered for military operations or political events. Queen Elizabeth consulted John Dee to ensure the best astrological timing for her inauguration as Queen for example. Whether or not it WORKS, needs some scientific method applied. We can speculate all day on whether or not world leaders do it - to which I am 100% confident that they do, but we'd have to know exactly what operations they performed and whether or not the results played out the way they wanted them to or not. Interesting question though.
All right, let me explain in a few words how it works. I'll start with the simplest scenario.
Future politicians are prepared for the positions they are expected to hold. Special magicians, psychics, and others begin working with them. This process can take several years. Their Probability Lines of future events are completely altered. This comes at a high price. The magicians may be paid by the state, or the client may pay for the work personally.
Alongside their political careers, these clients can also have successful businesses created for them, provided they have enough money to pay for it.))
For example, take the previous president of Ukraine. His political and business success (220 companies under his ownership) was supposedly the result of the work of just one magician.
Essentially, all of this is ritual magic.
Here's a second scenario. A group of people comes to power in a country. They realize how difficult it is to hold on to power and begin looking for someone who can help them. As a rule, these people travel to Romania, to a village near the Hungarian border. A Romani woman lives there with her daughters. They perform rituals for "Power and Authority."
The ritual is expensive. A few years ago, I heard that it cost one million dollars. The group is limited to no more than five people. Why is it so expensive? Because it supposedly guarantees that they will retain power for up to 20 years. However, this Romani woman can also refuse to perform the ritual.
There are other rituals for influencing geopolitics as well. Take the Kabbalists, for example. Essentially, modern Kabbalah is largely focused on money and power. The original Kabbalah was different, and it has not existed in its original form since the emergence of the graphical Tree of the Sephiroth (if I've got the terminology right, that is.)))
But there are also some truly unusual methods, such as the use of chess. Chess is not a game. It is an ancient account of Power that came to us from one of the neighboring worlds. I won't go into that story now as well.
I also forgot to mention the magical wars between politicians. They never stop. A great many magicians are involved in them.
Let me answer the obvious question in advance: how do I know all this?
Ten years ago, I had a mentor who worked with high-ranking politicians. I witnessed all of this firsthand. I was also offered a similar arrangement, but I didn't have enough money to pay for such work.
Do I regret it? No, I don't.
And I'm not a magician myself. My field is quite specialized. In my spare time, I work with Time and its various forms, creating projects, artifacts, and so on.
But that's another story, and I don't want to discuss it any further on this forum. A year ago, when I started posting my own threads here, I heard so much nasty stuff directed at me that I decided not to do it again.))
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I just remembered something. Among the powerful magicians who work with geopolitics and top-level politicians, there is an Estonian woman who lives in Tallinn. I don’t know her personally, but I’ve heard about her. She is a Mirror Witch, and she has had clients among top political figures.
But when it comes to the highest level of all this, Voodoo is at the top. This tradition is particularly well suited to geopolitical magic. Take Fidel Castro, for example. There are photos online showing him holding a Voodoo wand — a short, silvery one, about 30 centimetres long. His entire run of good fortune and the course of his destiny were the work of Voodoo priests.
Voodoo is still actively used to this day to work with politicians.
there is an Apollonian element to it that is undermined by an innate Dionysian current. Indicating there could be a way to integrate them together into a positive sum synthesis strengthening egalitarian social liberal democracy by expanding ceremonies into the greater cosmological.
Just going off on a tangent here, but there is a massive power being ammassed to stop the Dionysian current in the world, but the currents feeding this attempt are merely borrowed (hijacked), which means it may be prone to be repurposed with small adjustments (as we have recently seen in several situations). If a positive sum synthesis of Dionysian and Apollonian currents could be achieved, with the formerly antagonistic currents serving to purify and temper, arguably we'd get something quite unexpected and grand...
