Help me with understanding Crowley

[ragingmagus]

Maybe and probably i'm being somewhat judgmental of this man, but i struggle to reconcile many things about him. So prefacing this may be more about me than him, not trying to attack, but understand.

Infact this could be reflective of any person who seems to have achieved great spiritual heights but their life was also characterized by very mundane human failings.

Many people seem to see him as the goat, he seems to have achieved much on his soul journey with big claims like crossing the abyss, and contributed a lot to the western system of magic, but was plagued by many things like opiate addiction, his rent boy addiction, money issues etc.

I struggle to reconcile the idea that he achieved so many things that would require great discipline and wisdom, but couldn't sort out his personal life.

 

[unlight]

there's a copy of MAGICK WITHOUT TEARS edited by Alan Chapman in the forum. The opening section contains his commentary on Crowley (“Is a God to live in a dog?”). You might want to take a look.

 

[AbammonTheGreat]

Maybe and probably i'm being somewhat judgmental of this man, but i struggle to reconcile many things about him. So prefacing this may be more about me than him, not trying to attack, but understand.

Infact this could be reflective of any person who seems to have achieved great spiritual heights but their life was also characterized by very mundane human failings.

Many people seem to see him as the goat, he seems to have achieved much on his soul journey with big claims like crossing the abyss, and contributed a lot to the western system of magic, but was plagued by many things like opiate addiction, his rent boy addiction, money issues etc.

I struggle to reconcile the idea that he achieved so many things that would require great discipline and wisdom, but couldn't sort out his personal life.

Crowley didn't understand Crowley. That was a man trapped in self, internally torn, and his many shortcomings were symptoms and manifestations of a much deeper seeded issue. On top of this the man never finished a single ritual, thing, etc etc. Always measure a person by the fruits of their work. Crowley was not a man plagued by trials and tests for being such an adept mystic he was a victim of his self-centeredness and ego, his own ineptitude was why he suffered so frequently. He is by no means a "goat". Notoriety is not the measure for evolution. The man never crossed the abyss, he died an addict which should point out that the man by no means was capable of dissolving his self-hood.

 

[Faria]

achieved great spiritual heights but their life was also characterized by very mundane human failings.

What, in your opinion, would constitute "great spiritual heights?"

Crowley's version of it, in very simple form, is the idea that a person should find and follow their own True Will, the divinely-appointed purpose of their own existence. It may not be spreading love and compassion, it might be something more like building guided missiles or writing poetry and getting laid.

he seems to have achieved much on his soul journey with big claims like crossing the abyss, and contributed a lot to the western system of magic, but was plagued by many things like opiate addiction, his rent boy addiction, money issues etc.

The chief accomplishment of Aleister Crowley is that he laid the foundations of the western cultural revolutions that took place in the 20th Century. He was involved in propaganda and political espionage in both World Wars, was a key figure in the sexual revolution, and his ideas were the inspiration for a large number of thinkers, performers, and influential people.

His personal failures tend to be given a level of focus that, in my opinion, is unwarranted. Find me any 70 yr old heroin addict who could write The Book of Thoth, for example.

He is often said to have died broke and alone. This is not true at all. He lived at a boarding house where famous writers could host lectures. When he arrived, he brought with him a floor-to-ceiling pile of chocolate which was rationed at the time, having sold his book collection to acquire it. He spent his days in the lawn with bunny rabbits and his evenings flirting with the ladies. To say that he was a depraved and troubled person is to overlook most of his life.

I struggle to reconcile the idea that he achieved so many things that would require great discipline and wisdom, but couldn't sort out his personal life.

I heartily recommend reading the Tobias Churton biography of Crowley, as well as the man's own writings. Having a second-hand understanding of his work is not going to accurately represent someone with such a long and complicated career.

 

[Beyond Everything]

- Subject to histrionic fits

- Still helplessly addicted to heroin after he wrote Diary of a Drug Fiend, where he presented Thelema as a 'cure'. I've known non-occultists who managed to have enough willpower to quit Heroin cold turkey and stay off of it, yet this 'Adept' couldn't manage that

- So broke at points he couldn't even afford to buy paper, his money magic didn't work. And it's amusing he even tried money magick, because at other times he counseled one should only do magic to invoke their so-called HGA- so his weltanschauung was pretty muddled.

-Propagated a convoluted system of metapuke (the religion of thelema) that didn't touch on the true human potential- immortalization in the act of transmuting into a higher subtle body. This flies over the head of most, though.

- While he could be a witty and colorful writer at times, he considered himself a superior poet to yeats (lol)

 

[ragingmagus]

Yeah ok, seems like my take was fairly on par with what other see. I guess i never saw what the big deal was.

A brilliant man in many ways, and demonized in the press (and dont we know how full of shit the press is!). But never really got on top of his own demons (step 1 for an Adept). Definitely levels of self delusion and contradiction.

I understand the desire to rebel against the morality of society and ideas of large religious institutions,, but struggle with the idea of chasing every desire to the point of debasement. Having been an addict, and chased a few of my dark desires over time, one could spend lifetimes watering this weed, and i don't think the fruit would be worthwhile. While i dont doubt all paths are valid, this seems like a particularly scenic one with a lot of resulting baggage.

That said the shadow is definitely not to be ignored, we have to harmonize the opposites and incorporate them, but what i see from Thelema is hedonism dressed as spirituality, and Crowleys life seems to embody the result of such works.

 

[FireBorn]

Crowley didn't understand Crowley. That was a man trapped in self, internally torn, and his many shortcomings were symptoms and manifestations of a much deeper seeded issue. On top of this the man never finished a single ritual, thing, etc etc. Always measure a person by the fruits of their work. Crowley was not a man plagued by trials and tests for being such an adept mystic he was a victim of his self-centeredness and ego, his own ineptitude was why he suffered so frequently. He is by no means a "goat". Notoriety is not the measure for evolution. The man never crossed the abyss, he died an addict which should point out that the man by no means was capable of dissolving his self-hood.

Solid response, and much nicer and more eloquent than I am. Great points you brought up, honestly. I normally look at the fruits of a practitioner rather than the person, but Crowley was so loud of a man it is really hard to see past his own bullshit.

His Abyss crossing, I question it. The HGA concept, and his experience with it left me scratching my head, doesn't hold much water. And if that is an example of his path, then I'm out. Too Abrahamic for my taste. Dying alone (or mostly alone) penniless, addicted, full of ego, I dont need magick for any of that. (Yep, I'm a bit jaded, but I will leave room for a bad interpretation on my part. Maybe some day I will circle back to some of his stuff, maybe I will grow into it in a new way, never know.)

Even despite the million holes in all his stuff, he was brilliant, rebellious and irreverent, and I love that. He had some great insights, even if they weren't all his. His whole life didn't suck, its just easy to only see those parts. Trying to be objective here.

That said, there are tons of folks who find themselves following his words and system. I personally follow no system. I tried Thelema for about a year, fuck man, I just struggled with the word mazes and barbs. Truth doesn't require any of that, ego often does. To me there are big things that Thelema doesn't resolve about itself, so I parted ways with it entirely. Again, others find themselves in it and that's amazing. Zero judgement. If it resonates, it resonates. To me, it didn't, it just took me a year to decide.

Love is the law, love under Will is pretty badass though.

**Last thought, Crowley, also Parsons were both great examples of practitioners with all fire and zero grounding. I resonate with that aspect so much. I had to learn how to be grounded so I didn't burn up and flame out like Parsons, or burn so hot that ego takes over like Crowley.

 

[iseht]

My favorite anecdote about Crowley is that a magical duel between him and Yeats ended with Crowley being kicked down the stairs.

That said, I do admire his pragmatism about spiritual practice, he was famously quite zen about certain topics and pushed forth the idea that one should practice for the sake of deepening understanding and not purely to seek results.

I think one could do far worse than starting with a book like Liber 4, but I don't really care much for how his teaching evolved more into Crowleyism than Occultism.