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[Help] How do I connect with infernals successfully?

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sleepedw

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For background: I knew about satanism when I was 13. Through Lavey's theories. English isn't my first language, and I didn't know it back then, I didn't have many sources + Google Translate. I put it away, although I was so interested in it. After a few years, I read about witchcraft but never practised it, just reading and watching videos(not TikTok BS). So I'm not very good at meditation, Ive never contacted any entities, I don't have "witches" in my family line, etc.

It's been close to a year since I've been learning about demonology. I haven't done more than a few rituals which "failed" in my opinion, where i couldnt connect to the entity. Recently, I learned about the phrase "gnosis state" and realised my problem wasn't the method, but rather not reaching that state.

Well, I have ADHD, and I'm aware I'm not good at focusing intensely. I'm going to do meditations daily and try to focus deeply before I choose to connect to an entity. However, I wanted to know your experiences and tips. Thank you.
 

Nembra

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I find this "gnosis" of chaos magicians rather dubious in necessity, or perhaps narrow in its common definition. I wouldn't neccessarily blame a failiure on it - I also have ADHD and my rituals do work. The truth is there are many paths and when you're dealt a strange hand you have to make unorthodox plays.
 

sleepedw

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I find this "gnosis" of chaos magicians rather dubious in necessity, or perhaps narrow in its common definition. I wouldn't neccessarily blame a failiure on it - I also have ADHD and my rituals do work. The truth is there are many paths and when you're dealt a strange hand you have to make unorthodox plays.
What do you suggest? Doing a ritual many times?
 

Nembra

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What do you suggest? Doing a ritual many times?
If you want to bore yourself to death then it's certainly one way. I can't make very confident suggestions because every mind is furnished differently and I can't vouch that my methods will work for you. All I can say is how I personally approach the matter.

I like to make it intense and meaningful enough to stay engaged. This doesn't mean: don't try to stay calm when appropriate. All your inner states are wells of distinct potential for you to utilise, even the chatter. Maybe you are trying to smother what could be made to work for you. I'd aim for direction and purpose rather than absence of thought. I'm sorry if I'm being unclear, it's kind of difficult to put in general terms.

One of rituals (not strictly "magical" perhaps, but the principles apply) I do semi-regularly is simple Lauds from the breviary. If I can't stay focused on reading I improvise a melodic line for it.
 

FireBorn

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For ADHD here is a thread where it is discussed regarding Magick. Maybe you will see a few things that resonate for you from others with ADHD. If nothing else, you will see that ADHD doesnt have to be a hindrance to magick or ritual. Hope this helps:

Magicians with ADHD: a thread

Regarding your question, I have ADHD and for me, having a non linear thought process, the standard ritual process is too long, too linear for me. I just let my brain do what it does best, slip into magickal trance through the side door. It works wonderfully for me. Not adding the stress of "Did I get this right?" can be liberating as hell. The stress can make things so much worse, so work WITH the wiring in your brain, not against it.

Something to keep in mind, concerning occult material and ritual formats, they were written by neurotypicals for neurotypicals. Understanding and accepting that will make your life and occult work smoother without the extra bullshit stress.

If ritual is your thing, maybe try looking at the formal ritual itself before doing anything, look at the details and the main point of said ritual. Then do what you can do to get the main point and wing it from there. Yeah, I said wing it, our brains are fucking fantastic for this. Non linear thought, pattern recognition, multiple layers at once, easy peasy.

The demons dont care if you have ADHD. You got this! Do us all a solid, when you make contact, come back and share that! Who cares about the ritual, share that excitement of your first contact, that's the jam right there! Good luck!
 

WonderFire

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IMHO the concept of gnosis is overrated and unclear as it simply means "altered state of consciousness" but it includes too many different states under one umbrella term. Don't worry about it, I've found it doesn't really matter.
Doing a ritual multiple times is fine, as magick is cumulative.
 

Morgast

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Satanism is the nice living philosophy. But is NOT a magic training!!! Ritual is functionaly for magicians! Your will and imaginaton in the first place! And study! Theory is very relevant information for praxis. Agrippa, GD materials ... For practical training is the best the Franz Bardon.
 

Nembra

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By the way, what's with you people and the "infernals"? There are so many grand rivers of spiritual power you can tap into that don't want to bite your head off. I will fight to the death for your right to do stupid things to yourself, but I'm genuinely fascinated by the phenomenon of beginners being drawn to the most volatile beings. Is it just the fact that there's just more theory written on dealing with demons? Or perhaps the campy, edgy aesthetics...?
 

Soror Epihania

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By the way, what's with you people and the "infernals"? There are so many grand rivers of spiritual power you can tap into that don't want to bite your head off. I will fight to the death for your right to do stupid things to yourself, but I'm genuinely fascinated by the phenomenon of beginners being drawn to the most volatile beings. Is it just the fact that there's just more theory written on dealing with demons? Or perhaps the campy, edgy aesthetics...?
This is the LHP and Demonology section of the forum. I would expect discussion on infernals and the demonic when entering a thread here.

As to your question; some people have been burned by Christianity and have taken an interest in the 'other side' of the dualist narrative they've been given. Some are definitely into it for the spooky and edgy vibes or the thrillseeking of dealing with dangerous entities. Some don't hold to the idea that demons are necessarily malevolent or out to get us.

The Underworld has its dangers but it's a place of deep beauty and healing that's been denigrated for centuries in the 'west'. Perhaps the turn towards demonology is part of a wider movement of returning to the chthonic wisdom embedded in flesh and earth.
 

Nembra

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This is the LHP and Demonology section of the forum. I would expect discussion on infernals and the demonic when entering a thread here.
I'm not surprised to see it here.
As to your question; some people have been burned by Christianity and have taken an interest in the 'other side' of the dualist narrative they've been given. Some are definitely into it for the spooky and edgy vibes or the thrillseeking of dealing with dangerous entities. Some don't hold to the idea that demons are necessarily malevolent or out to get us.
Ah, the weird mutations of manicheism again. I get the thrillseeking, but it's the neutral, elemental-adjacent forces that are interestingly dangerous. Hell is dangerous in a way bureaucracy is - an endless, tedious, corporate struggle for power.
The Underworld has its dangers but it's a place of deep beauty and healing that's been denigrated for centuries in the 'west'. Perhaps the turn towards demonology is part of a wider movement of returning to the chthonic wisdom embedded in flesh and earth.
The ancient Underword is a dramatically distinct domain from "western" hell, even the shared symbolic layer is rather thin. Demons find great utility in that rebellious, punk branding but they have very little ownership over powers of the earth.
 

sleepedw

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I
Satanism is the nice living philosophy. But is NOT a magic training!!! Ritual is functionaly for magicians! Your will and imaginaton in the first place! And study! Theory is very relevant information for praxis. Agrippa, GD materials ... For practical training is the best the Franz Bardon.
Im aware. I was trying to say that its not a new concept for me to be excited about or be carried away. Its just what i feel drawn to not somethimg "cool".
 

sleepedw

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By the way, what's with you people and the "infernals"? There are so many grand rivers of spiritual power you can tap into that don't want to bite your head off. I will fight to the death for your right to do stupid things to yourself, but I'm genuinely fascinated by the phenomenon of beginners being drawn to the most volatile beings. Is it just the fact that there's just more theory written on dealing with demons? Or perhaps the campy, edgy aesthetics...?
Im not sure. I was talking to someone and they suggested working with greek gods. I didnt feel drawn to them, i didnt feel connected(not in a sense of contact). Its just a feeling I guess. And of course its not about that they are "demons" (yk some cool stuff). Im a Middle Eastern, its so common here people using djinns, we all know a witch or wizard working with them. So its not something edgy or cool for me.
 

sleepedw

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For ADHD here is a thread where it is discussed regarding Magick. Maybe you will see a few things that resonate with you from others with ADHD. If nothing else, you will see that ADHD doesn't have to be a hindrance to magick or ritual. Hope this helps:

Magicians with ADHD: a thread

Regarding your question, I have ADHD, and for me, having a non-linear thought process, the standard ritual process is too long, too linear for me. I just let my brain do what it does best, slip into magickal trance through the side door. It works wonderfully for me. Not adding the stress of "Did I get this right?" can be liberating as hell. The stress can make things so much worse, so work WITH the wiring in your brain, not against it.

Something to keep in mind, concerning occult material and ritual formats, they were written by neurotypicals for neurotypicals. Understanding and accepting that will make your life and occult work smoother without the extra bullshit stress.

If ritual is your thing, maybe try looking at the formal ritual itself before doing anything, look at the details and the main point of said ritual. Then do what you can to get the main point and wing it from there. Yeah, I said wing it, our brains are fucking fantastic for this. Non linear thought, pattern recognition, multiple layers at once, easy peasy.

The demons don't care if you have ADHD. You got this! Do us all a solid, when you make contact, come back and share that! Who cares about the ritual, share that excitement of your first contact, that's the jam right there! Good luck!
Thank you very much. It made me feel so much better. I have a habit of hyperfixating on things and then forgetting about them, and right now I'm overthinking this concept.

Just a question please; can you share with me your routine? And what do you do when you want to make a contact? I'm asking because I feel like I can use your experience. Like you Im not fond of long ritual and ceremonial rituals.
 

FireBorn

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Thank you very much. It made me feel so much better. I have a habit of hyperfixating on things and then forgetting about them, and right now I'm overthinking this concept.

Just a question please; can you share with me your routine? And what do you do when you want to make a contact? I'm asking because I feel like I can use your experience. Like you Im not fond of long ritual and ceremonial rituals.
Sure, here is a short one without all the ritual formalities This will make some formalists twitch, but that’s fine. Different wiring, different methods.

This method is designed for my brain wiring (high functioning ADHD), not from a grimoire, not from a book. Lilith taught me this method directly and it works for me very well. Remember, It's only stupid if it doesn't work!

Context (because this matters more than you think):

I work with demons relationally. I do not fear demons as evil fallen angels antithetical to the Yehweh god. Demons are amoral, not evil. I walk WITH, not below or behind. I do not kneel, bow, nor worship. This framing is the corner stone of my framework. I always come with authenticity and willingness. (You do NOT need to have my framework for this to work for you)

With that out of the way, here is what I do when I dont want, or dont have time/patience for a full on ritual;

I meditate (sit, lay down, whatever works for you). I personally dont do music as it fucks with me deeply and can pull me out of trance. YMMV here. First I call the demons name (nothing fancy, just call the name out loud. No Latin, no yelling. Just call the name. Then I focus on moving my energy throughout my body. I bring that energy to my third eye, then to my crown, back to third eye. I get that third eye really humming. I focus on this present moment so much everything fades (easier to do rather than explain).

Once everything starts to fade, I let myself slip in. Nothing to fear, just let it happen. Most times, but not every time, I will feel the voltage in the room change. It is the energetic signature of the demon. Sometimes it feels cold, others hot. Intense, almost always intense. For me, when this shift happens, it is unmistakable that a demon is present. This is the good stuff!

At this point you can communicate with the demon. Ask to be taught (Magick, confidence, charisma, help with things, etc.) Do your homework on this before hand because this is where people can fuck up without knowing until later. Demons are brutally literal, so be crystal fucking clear with your petitions and intent.

The point is to get into the magickal trance state (whatever formal name it is called is unimportant to me). For deliberate contact, no state, no contact, at least in my experience. Contact is what we are actually after here. Much of what we do in ritual is there to help move us toward that state and support what happens once we’re there.

You will learn more with experience and time. Most of the ritual steps and concepts are fucking gorgeous and have their place. This isn't meant to replace ritual, and you will eventually learn to incorporate ritual aspects as you grow. All I am saying here is that the ritual is just a scaffold for getting the practitioner into the state where contact is possible.

It is much easier for me to backfill the details and step mechanics after I have experienced the point of the thing. Too many steps and I lose focus and interest. Let me see the point first and I can absolutely get there, maybe just not the same way everyone else does. Again, what is the first principle of the thing? I work backward from there. For me, this is key, and probably the most useful element for the practitioner with ADHD.

Key points:

Do not call it a failure if you cannot 'slip in' every time. There are lots of reasons for this, sometimes it just isnt going to happen (like if you are too tired, low dopamine, etc) Its just life, relax and try again later.

If you do slip in, sometimes the demon isn't present. That happens at times as well. This isn't a personal failure. Demons aren't out there just waiting for you to call them. They aren't slaves. They also have other demon shit going on. Relax and try again later.

Dont try to force it. Just let this happen. Like golf, the harder you try, the harder it will be for you. Your ADHD can actually be useful here. The nonlinear thinking that frustrates you elsewhere may be exactly what lets you slip in through the side door. What you do in this state is on you.

Feel free to fuck with this a bit. Modify it for how YOUR brain works. If music helps you, use it. YT has tons of ritual music you can try. Want a candle, light a candle. Want to take off your pants, take off your pants and rock on. I say fuck it, eat that pizza crust first. Just eat the pizza! Amiright? 😂

Last thing, do not forget this, as it may help you more down the road: Just because you get scared, or get spanked by a demon doesn't equal a sideways contact. Too many call this a bad experience. A lesson, an unpleasant experience is not the same thing as a a ritual gone bad. Sometimes you will be challenged to face fears, or the demon presents in a way that is unpleasant. Look for the lesson in that rather than freaking out. Fear is just information, not authority. Fear doesn't automatically equal danger here. Face it and grow.

You cannot control what a demon looks like, says or does during a contact. But you can 100% control your willingness to take part in the interaction. If shit is too much for you, just bounce. Come out of your state and its over. Easy day. Nothing to banish, nothing dramatic required. If fear comes up, notice it without automatically letting it decide what the experience means. The more fear you bring into your interpretation, the easier it is to turn every weird thing into some occult horror story.

I probably forgot a lot in the process here. Your framework, your religious baggage (if applicable) your biases, your preferences all affect how this can/will work regarding demonic manifestation.

If anything is unclear (I'm sure there are parts I glossed or didn't mention like banishing and all that. This would be way longer than just a post) feel free to send me a DM and I will take the time needed to answer questions as best I can, or put you in touch with someone else who can).

If it does work, please come share that shit! Way too much talk about mechanics and not enough talk about contact (Which is the whole fucking point IMO).

Sixteen thousands edits later, I think this will fly. Hope this helps, if not, just burn it. Good luck!!
 

sleepedw

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Sure, here is a short one without all the ritual formalities This will make some formalists twitch, but that’s fine. Different wiring, different methods.

This method is designed for my brain wiring (high functioning ADHD), not from a grimoire, not from a book. Lilith taught me this method directly and it works for me very well. Remember, It's only stupid if it doesn't work!

Context (because this matters more than you think):

I work with demons relationally. I do not fear demons as evil fallen angels antithetical to the Yehweh god. Demons are amoral, not evil. I walk WITH, not below or behind. I do not kneel, bow, nor worship. This framing is the corner stone of my framework. I always come with authenticity and willingness. (You do NOT need to have my framework for this to work for you)

With that out of the way, here is what I do when I dont want, or dont have time/patience for a full on ritual;

I meditate (sit, lay down, whatever works for you). I personally dont do music as it fucks with me deeply and can pull me out of trance. YMMV here. First I call the demons name (nothing fancy, just call the name out loud. No Latin, no yelling. Just call the name. Then I focus on moving my energy throughout my body. I bring that energy to my third eye, then to my crown, back to third eye. I get that third eye really humming. I focus on this present moment so much everything fades (easier to do rather than explain).

Once everything starts to fade, I let myself slip in. Nothing to fear, just let it happen. Most times, but not every time, I will feel the voltage in the room change. It is the energetic signature of the demon. Sometimes it feels cold, others hot. Intense, almost always intense. For me, when this shift happens, it is unmistakable that a demon is present. This is the good stuff!

At this point you can communicate with the demon. Ask to be taught (Magick, confidence, charisma, help with things, etc.) Do your homework on this before hand because this is where people can fuck up without knowing until later. Demons are brutally literal, so be crystal fucking clear with your petitions and intent.

The point is to get into the magickal trance state (whatever formal name it is called is unimportant to me). For deliberate contact, no state, no contact, at least in my experience. Contact is what we are actually after here. Much of what we do in ritual is there to help move us toward that state and support what happens once we’re there.

You will learn more with experience and time. Most of the ritual steps and concepts are fucking gorgeous and have their place. This isn't meant to replace ritual, and you will eventually learn to incorporate ritual aspects as you grow. All I am saying here is that the ritual is just a scaffold for getting the practitioner into the state where contact is possible.

It is much easier for me to backfill the details and step mechanics after I have experienced the point of the thing. Too many steps and I lose focus and interest. Let me see the point first and I can absolutely get there, maybe just not the same way everyone else does. Again, what is the first principle of the thing? I work backward from there. For me, this is key, and probably the most useful element for the practitioner with ADHD.

Key points:

Do not call it a failure if you cannot 'slip in' every time. There are lots of reasons for this, sometimes it just isnt going to happen (like if you are too tired, low dopamine, etc) Its just life, relax and try again later.

If you do slip in, sometimes the demon isn't present. That happens at times as well. This isn't a personal failure. Demons aren't out there just waiting for you to call them. They aren't slaves. They also have other demon shit going on. Relax and try again later.

Dont try to force it. Just let this happen. Like golf, the harder you try, the harder it will be for you. Your ADHD can actually be useful here. The nonlinear thinking that frustrates you elsewhere may be exactly what lets you slip in through the side door. What you do in this state is on you.

Feel free to fuck with this a bit. Modify it for how YOUR brain works. If music helps you, use it. YT has tons of ritual music you can try. Want a candle, light a candle. Want to take off your pants, take off your pants and rock on. I say fuck it, eat that pizza crust first. Just eat the pizza! Amiright? 😂

Last thing, do not forget this, as it may help you more down the road: Just because you get scared, or get spanked by a demon doesn't equal a sideways contact. Too many call this a bad experience. A lesson, an unpleasant experience is not the same thing as a a ritual gone bad. Sometimes you will be challenged to face fears, or the demon presents in a way that is unpleasant. Look for the lesson in that rather than freaking out. Fear is just information, not authority. Fear doesn't automatically equal danger here. Face it and grow.

You cannot control what a demon looks like, says or does during a contact. But you can 100% control your willingness to take part in the interaction. If shit is too much for you, just bounce. Come out of your state and its over. Easy day. Nothing to banish, nothing dramatic required. If fear comes up, notice it without automatically letting it decide what the experience means. The more fear you bring into your interpretation, the easier it is to turn every weird thing into some occult horror story.

I probably forgot a lot in the process here. Your framework, your religious baggage (if applicable) your biases, your preferences all affect how this can/will work regarding demonic manifestation.

If anything is unclear (I'm sure there are parts I glossed or didn't mention like banishing and all that. This would be way longer than just a post) feel free to send me a DM and I will take the time needed to answer questions as best I can, or put you in touch with someone else who can).

If it does work, please come share that shit! Way too much talk about mechanics and not enough talk about contact (Which is the whole fucking point IMO).

Sixteen thousands edits later, I think this will fly. Hope this helps, if not, just burn it. Good luck!!
I appreciate you so much:( thank you for the time you put on writing this. I have some questions, i will dm you. Thank you so much again. Your method resonated so much, i will try it.
Post automatically merged:

Okay
Sure, here is a short one without all the ritual formalities This will make some formalists twitch, but that’s fine. Different wiring, different methods.

This method is designed for my brain wiring (high functioning ADHD), not from a grimoire, not from a book. Lilith taught me this method directly and it works for me very well. Remember, It's only stupid if it doesn't work!

Context (because this matters more than you think):

I work with demons relationally. I do not fear demons as evil fallen angels antithetical to the Yehweh god. Demons are amoral, not evil. I walk WITH, not below or behind. I do not kneel, bow, nor worship. This framing is the corner stone of my framework. I always come with authenticity and willingness. (You do NOT need to have my framework for this to work for you)

With that out of the way, here is what I do when I dont want, or dont have time/patience for a full on ritual;

I meditate (sit, lay down, whatever works for you). I personally dont do music as it fucks with me deeply and can pull me out of trance. YMMV here. First I call the demons name (nothing fancy, just call the name out loud. No Latin, no yelling. Just call the name. Then I focus on moving my energy throughout my body. I bring that energy to my third eye, then to my crown, back to third eye. I get that third eye really humming. I focus on this present moment so much everything fades (easier to do rather than explain).

Once everything starts to fade, I let myself slip in. Nothing to fear, just let it happen. Most times, but not every time, I will feel the voltage in the room change. It is the energetic signature of the demon. Sometimes it feels cold, others hot. Intense, almost always intense. For me, when this shift happens, it is unmistakable that a demon is present. This is the good stuff!

At this point you can communicate with the demon. Ask to be taught (Magick, confidence, charisma, help with things, etc.) Do your homework on this before hand because this is where people can fuck up without knowing until later. Demons are brutally literal, so be crystal fucking clear with your petitions and intent.

The point is to get into the magickal trance state (whatever formal name it is called is unimportant to me). For deliberate contact, no state, no contact, at least in my experience. Contact is what we are actually after here. Much of what we do in ritual is there to help move us toward that state and support what happens once we’re there.

You will learn more with experience and time. Most of the ritual steps and concepts are fucking gorgeous and have their place. This isn't meant to replace ritual, and you will eventually learn to incorporate ritual aspects as you grow. All I am saying here is that the ritual is just a scaffold for getting the practitioner into the state where contact is possible.

It is much easier for me to backfill the details and step mechanics after I have experienced the point of the thing. Too many steps and I lose focus and interest. Let me see the point first and I can absolutely get there, maybe just not the same way everyone else does. Again, what is the first principle of the thing? I work backward from there. For me, this is key, and probably the most useful element for the practitioner with ADHD.

Key points:

Do not call it a failure if you cannot 'slip in' every time. There are lots of reasons for this, sometimes it just isnt going to happen (like if you are too tired, low dopamine, etc) Its just life, relax and try again later.

If you do slip in, sometimes the demon isn't present. That happens at times as well. This isn't a personal failure. Demons aren't out there just waiting for you to call them. They aren't slaves. They also have other demon shit going on. Relax and try again later.

Dont try to force it. Just let this happen. Like golf, the harder you try, the harder it will be for you. Your ADHD can actually be useful here. The nonlinear thinking that frustrates you elsewhere may be exactly what lets you slip in through the side door. What you do in this state is on you.

Feel free to fuck with this a bit. Modify it for how YOUR brain works. If music helps you, use it. YT has tons of ritual music you can try. Want a candle, light a candle. Want to take off your pants, take off your pants and rock on. I say fuck it, eat that pizza crust first. Just eat the pizza! Amiright? 😂

Last thing, do not forget this, as it may help you more down the road: Just because you get scared, or get spanked by a demon doesn't equal a sideways contact. Too many call this a bad experience. A lesson, an unpleasant experience is not the same thing as a a ritual gone bad. Sometimes you will be challenged to face fears, or the demon presents in a way that is unpleasant. Look for the lesson in that rather than freaking out. Fear is just information, not authority. Fear doesn't automatically equal danger here. Face it and grow.

You cannot control what a demon looks like, says or does during a contact. But you can 100% control your willingness to take part in the interaction. If shit is too much for you, just bounce. Come out of your state and its over. Easy day. Nothing to banish, nothing dramatic required. If fear comes up, notice it without automatically letting it decide what the experience means. The more fear you bring into your interpretation, the easier it is to turn every weird thing into some occult horror story.

I probably forgot a lot in the process here. Your framework, your religious baggage (if applicable) your biases, your preferences all affect how this can/will work regarding demonic manifestation.

If anything is unclear (I'm sure there are parts I glossed or didn't mention like banishing and all that. This would be way longer than just a post) feel free to send me a DM and I will take the time needed to answer questions as best I can, or put you in touch with someone else who can).

If it does work, please come share that shit! Way too much talk about mechanics and not enough talk about contact (Which is the whole fucking point IMO).

Sixteen thousands edits later, I think this will fly. Hope this helps, if not, just burn it. Good luck!!
Great i dont know how to dm😀
 

Nembra

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Im not sure. I was talking to someone and they suggested working with greek gods. I didnt feel drawn to them, i didnt feel connected(not in a sense of contact). Its just a feeling I guess. And of course its not about that they are "demons" (yk some cool stuff). Im a Middle Eastern, its so common here people using djinns, we all know a witch or wizard working with them. So its not something edgy or cool for me.
Djinn aren't exactly the same kind of things as European demons. Djinn are explicitly worldly, elemental forces, while with demons it's... rather complicated, especially between the different traditions. When you said "infernals" I thought you mean literalforces of hell (as does the name suggest).

With Greek gods the problem is that when you actually discover what they really are you kind of stop wanting to worship them - they're still useful, just not very trustworthy.
 

sleepedw

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Yes sure, i kinda understand their nature and their differences. I was trying to say that im familiar with occult from childhood and its not a new thing for me and i was deeply fascinated by it since i can remember. I just cant make the contact, thats the only issue for me.
Djinn aren't exactly the same kind of things as European demons. Djinn are explicitly worldly, elemental forces, while with demons it's... rather complicated, especially between the different traditions. When you said "infernals" I thought you mean literalforces of hell (as does the name suggest).

With Greek gods the problem is that when you actually discover what they really are you kind of stop wanting to worship them - they're still useful, just not very trustworthy.
 
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