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How much power do names hold

Yazata

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It becomes insufferable when the numerologist starts "correcting" the name or term being numerized. That is, a name almost fits a hoped-for correspondence, so the numerologist hammers the almost round peg into the slightly off-square hole. Kenneth Grant does this a few times. Dr. Rashad Khalifa "found" so many instances of the Quran being "based on" multiples of the number 19 that he "corrected" the textus receptus and threw out two verses that "didn't fit." Which got him on any number of fundie s*** lists.
O I did this recently with almost every single Name in the pentacles of the Greater Key. A whole lot of these are garbled and appear to be retranscribed from English into Hebrew and thereby the meaning (and numerology) was lost.
Can be a satisfying exercise.
 

stalkinghyena

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It becomes insufferable when the numerologist starts "correcting" the name or term being numerized. That is, a name almost fits a hoped-for correspondence, so the numerologist hammers the almost round peg into the slightly off-square hole.
It can also be entertaining if one takes the view that this is a formula or equation of the "non-rational", a term I have heard being used in the academic sphere, and which I like. I translate this more in to the "mythic", but really when it is pitted against rational logic it's a matter of "take it or leave it". Annoying or batshit crazy or not, it's a formula on a chalkboard which can have real world consequences as the message delineates its influence.

Kenneth Grant does this a few times.
Lol, I would say more than a few, but his writings were a deliberate magical operation. I would even share the term "insufferable", especially as he starts to integrate UFO's (as in the shape of the Graal indicates that the original Typhonians were from Ursa Major, or whatever). But he even steps aside from his rambles from time to time and reminds the reader these are formulae, that you do with it whatever your insight can develop from it - obviously at your own risk.


Dr. Rashad Khalifa "found" so many instances of the Quran being "based on" multiples of the number 19 that he "corrected" the textus receptus and threw out two verses that "didn't fit." Which got him on any number of fundie s*** lists.
Not on my radar until now, but this is nothing new in the history of the occult. I had briefly studied some medieval Muslim innovators who played in that sandbox, but my knowledge there is a bit vague, hope to get back there in my ROTA.

I think the real "risk" is that names and numbers, whether alone or combination = destiny. "It must be!"
How much history that we are responsible is shaped by that reasoning?
(a-hem MISS BLAVATSKY!!!!)

As to names having or creating power, think Pico della Mirandola going down a winding path of "theses" to finally present to his now bored and probably suspicious audience that the most powerful Name of all is to take YHVH and add the letter Shin, so you can get Jesus.
He didn't win any awards for that despite his "legacy", BTW, and I can only imagine the expression on his face as he watched his buddy Savonarola's bonfires. He was probably thinking, "Good. Fuck all y'all."

IMO it doesn't make the process or technique bullshit - it is what it is, and it can be very useful. Perhaps we should be concerned with "finding things that aren't there" - but this is... the occult, right?

Can be a satisfying exercise.
Claves(y)
 

Xenophon

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It can also be entertaining if one takes the view that this is a formula or equation of the "non-rational", a term I have heard being used in the academic sphere, and which I like. I translate this more in to the "mythic", but really when it is pitted against rational logic it's a matter of "take it or leave it". Annoying or batshit crazy or not, it's a formula on a chalkboard which can have real world consequences as the message delineates its influence.


Lol, I would say more than a few, but his writings were a deliberate magical operation. I would even share the term "insufferable", especially as he starts to integrate UFO's (as in the shape of the Graal indicates that the original Typhonians were from Ursa Major, or whatever). But he even steps aside from his rambles from time to time and reminds the reader these are formulae, that you do with it whatever your insight can develop from it - obviously at your own risk.



Not on my radar until now, but this is nothing new in the history of the occult. I had briefly studied some medieval Muslim innovators who played in that sandbox, but my knowledge there is a bit vague, hope to get back there in my ROTA.

I think the real "risk" is that names and numbers, whether alone or combination = destiny. "It must be!"
How much history that we are responsible is shaped by that reasoning?
(a-hem MISS BLAVATSKY!!!!)

As to names having or creating power, think Pico della Mirandola going down a winding path of "theses" to finally present to his now bored and probably suspicious audience that the most powerful Name of all is to take YHVH and add the letter Shin, so you can get Jesus.
He didn't win any awards for that despite his "legacy", BTW, and I can only imagine the expression on his face as he watched his buddy Savonarola's bonfires. He was probably thinking, "Good. Fuck all y'all."

IMO it doesn't make the process or technique bullshit - it is what it is, and it can be very useful. Perhaps we should be concerned with "finding things that aren't there" - but this is... the occult, right?


Claves(y)
A good reminder there at the end: blame the abuser, not the technique. I freely allow I am at times struck by suggestive numbers that crop up unlooked for or after a little analysis. If the correspondences' calculations take me half a sheet of paper and three tries, I tend to be a little chary. And if I have to make things work by "add one for the One God," or "add 11 for Joseph's brothers, minus Joseph himself," I decide it's time to take a break.
 

Gregorius

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oh a friend justy reminded me of the myth that some fae can syteal your name i dont know tho if that is just some pop culture myth or actually real
 

Xenophon

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oh a friend justy reminded me of the myth that some fae can syteal your name i dont know tho if that is just some pop culture myth or actually real
In magick, at least some folks have a moniker they don't give up lightly. There's birth certificate name, magick name for one's group, and one that's used in private workings with protections in place.
 

HoldAll

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oh a friend justy reminded me of the myth that some fae can syteal your name i dont know tho if that is just some pop culture myth or actually real
1598272836_untitled-design-19.png
 

PerfectGentelman

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The literally decide everything, but before you go running to change your name you might Wana consult a numerologist with some back ground in astrology, as you might make things far worse than they are now. Good luck
 

Xenophon

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Crowley changing IAO to FIAOF and insisting it's pronounced the same
Was it him, Crowley, the horse's aerse who perpetrated the "ghoti" spells "fish" joke? Gh as in "laugh," "o" as in "women," and "ti" as in "action."
 
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Words, and by extension names and titles, only carry as much power and meaning as one ascribes to them. Intent is more important.

All things are changed by intent and image; so long as you have the correct image of your desired outcome and the intent to actually manifest said outcome, things like names and labels and words are meaningless. Names just provide a shortcut for image.

When doing magic, "that guy over there" is just as effective as "Hugh Janus" or "Benjamin Dover". There was another thread where a dude wanted to stop a "big ass storm". He didn't say where it was but using the image of "the big storm bothering the dude who posted the thread" is enough of an image to do a working with.

So things like names and personal details only really have power to a person who needs them to help form an image, but someone with a relatively fluid mentality and clever thinking doesn't need to be restrained by such things.
 

Xenophon

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Words, and by extension names and titles, only carry as much power and meaning as one ascribes to them. Intent is more important.

All things are changed by intent and image; so long as you have the correct image of your desired outcome and the intent to actually manifest said outcome, things like names and labels and words are meaningless. Names just provide a shortcut for image.

When doing magic, "that guy over there" is just as effective as "Hugh Janus" or "Benjamin Dover". There was another thread where a dude wanted to stop a "big ass storm". He didn't say where it was but using the image of "the big storm bothering the dude who posted the thread" is enough of an image to do a working with.

So things like names and personal details only really have power to a person who needs them to help form an image, but someone with a relatively fluid mentality and clever thinking doesn't need to be restrained by such things.
So...magick even if I forget names and nomenclature? Hey, I got it! Joe Biden is Atazoth, the Mad-Piping Monarch of the cosmos!
 
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So...magick even if I forget names and nomenclature? Hey, I got it! Joe Biden is Atazoth, the Mad-Piping Monarch of the cosmos!
If that's how you can create the image you need for your working, it'll work. The whole point is that the name just makes it easy to form the image of the intended subject of your working. As long as you have a clear image in your mind, things like names and labels and titles are less relevant, and in some strange edge cases they can even be a detriment at times if the name of said target is in the public consciousness.
 

Xenophon

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If that's how you can create the image you need for your working, it'll work. The whole point is that the name just makes it easy to form the image of the intended subject of your working. As long as you have a clear image in your mind, things like names and labels and titles are less relevant, and in some strange edge cases they can even be a detriment at times if the name of said target is in the public consciousness.
Denotatum: the Esoteric Problem With Names is one of the chapters in my cut 'n paste personal Quran. It covers a lot of essential points in a few pages. Roughly, we are all agreed.
 

Robert Ramsay

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I suddenly realised that in Alan Chapman's 4-stage characterisation of magic

1) Intent
2) Externalise that intent
3) Gnosis
4) Forget about it

language is literally step 2)

I know this seems obvious, but I only just now made the connection.
 

Jackson

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I suddenly realised that in Alan Chapman's 4-stage characterisation of magic

1) Intent
2) Externalise that intent
3) Gnosis
4) Forget about it

language is literally step 2)
Be without desire, in-order to to examine the subtle. Have a constant aim to examine the boundary.
The un-named is earth and heaven's beginning; possessing-a-name is the innumerable thing's origin.
 
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