how to show physical proof of metaphysical concepts?

[Vlitmer]

there is a small shop in my hometown I visit sometimes that is run by a man that is well versed in esoteric and metaphysical topics such as the ones discussed on this website sometimes. and me and him were talking about ESP and the discussion came to be about how it seems extremely difficult if not impossible to give scientific physical proof to the concepts that exist in metaphysics i.e. ESP, remote viewing, astral projection etc.

I know of the CIA involvement in studying remote viewing in the 80s with the public release of the MK ultra documents. and of course, the nazi's and Hitler were extremely invested in metaphysics to help win the war. but finding actually scientific proof for these topics doesn't seem possible to me. I know that these concepts exist but to prove it is something I can't grasp.

so, I ask you. if you had to write a report to scientifically prove something like ESP or remote viewing, how would you do it?

 

[Robert Ramsay]

There are already a mountain of rigorous scientific papers showing that remote viewing (for example) can occur with a success rate far above chance.

The problem is twofold:
1) Not every experiment shows this (although a large percentage do)
2) There is currently no theory to explain why it works (and sometimes doesn't)

Neither of these would be a problem for "normal" psychology papers (which have a reproducibility problem the same as parapsychology papers do), but here we are.

From the perspective of my own research, I would require large numbers of senders and receivers to be at work simultaneously, and make sure that all the results are recorded before anyone other than the sender/receiver know what they are. Anyone involved in the experiment can interfere with it; failure is exacerbated by other people. This is why Levi says "To know, to will, to dare, and to keep silent"

 

[Vlitmer]

There are already a mountain of rigorous scientific papers showing that remote viewing (for example) can occur with a success rate far above chance.

The problem is twofold:
1) Not every experiment shows this (although a large percentage do)
2) There is currently no theory to explain why it works (and sometimes doesn't)

Neither of these would be a problem for "normal" psychology papers (which have a reproducibility problem the same as parapsychology papers do), but here we are.

From the perspective of my own research, I would require large numbers of senders and receivers to be at work simultaneously, and make sure that all the results are recorded before anyone other than the sender/receiver know what they are. Anyone involved in the experiment can interfere with it; failure is exacerbated by other people. This is why Levi says "To know, to will, to dare, and to keep silent"

from what I understand the reason it works (and sometimes doesn't) is because there is an innate "energy field" running through our physical reality, or rather that our physical reality exists in, that our consciousness and unconscious originates from, and can tap into. some people are born predisposed to have a better connection with this "energy" while other can exercise their connection through meditation, proper mindfulness, and intention i.e. spiritual practices and energy work.

when someone is able to remote view, they are connecting a part of their mind to this "energy field" that exists in and around everything and are able to view from the point they connect to.

but again, this is just my general understanding as someone still young to these practices. all this being just as hard to prove scientifically as the actually remote viewing itself.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

from what I understand the reason it works (and sometimes doesn't) is because there is an innate "energy field" running through our physical reality, or rather that our physical reality exists in, that our consciousness and unconscious originates from, and can tap into. some people are born predisposed to have a better connection with this "energy" while other can exercise their connection through meditation, proper mindfulness, and intention i.e. spiritual practices and energy work.

when someone is able to remote view, they are connecting a part of their mind to this "energy field" that exists in and around everything and are able to view from the point they connect to.

but again, this is just my general understanding as someone still young to these practices. all this being just as hard to prove scientifically as the actually remote viewing itself.

Welp, having researched it for thirty-plus years, I've come to different conclusions.

Imagine the sender and the receiver as two spreading sets of outcomes. In some of those outcomes, the sender will be thinking of a cat, the receiver, a dog, or vice-versa, or any combination.

A successful result is where both sender and receiver are thinking the same thing.

The point is, that each of the different outcomes is a different timeline. The magic occurs because both are trying to end up in the same timeline with the same thought. It's the same mechanism that ensures that we (mostly) agree on things in the world, like tables and chairs, except that the thing we are agreeing on is purely in our heads.

Please, Log in or Register to view codes content!

 

[Swampdweller900]

Robert is 100% correct. There are 200+ papers that the International Remote Viewing Association has linked on their website.

Dr. Dean Radin also has a few books exploring scientific methods of confirming psi abilities.

The ultimate problem is we don't have things to measure the how. Before the microscope was invented, science had what we see now as crazy theories about how things like fermentation or meat rotting worked. The theories were reasonable to them because they had no way to observe the means by which the process happened. Until we have that, and until scientists are writing grants to remote viewing foundations that use ARV to game the stock and crypto markets, psi and the paranormal will get passed over.

 

[Morell]

I think it's for the better if they don't have scientific knowledge of the paranormal. Even with normal people are being manipulated more than enough.

 

[Lawrence]

Consciousness unbound is a good book

 

[Robert Ramsay]

I think it's for the better if they don't have scientific knowledge of the paranormal. Even with normal people are being manipulated more than enough.

Luckily, the nature of it is so easily disrupted that it is almost useless as a weapon.

Post automatically merged: Nov 28, 2025

until scientists are writing grants to remote viewing foundations that use ARV to game the stock and crypto markets, psi and the paranormal will get passed over.

The people using magic to expand their wealth will be concentrating on the results of the money, not the money itself. Not sure how you'd use remote viewing on crypto anyway....

 

[LunaSerafina]

I believe the nature of reality is upon this relative story for the one witnessing it. That mechanically these things don't operate or become apparent until you are prepared to be aware of their measurement. That you will not be in realities in which that information is propagating if you don't have reasonable continuity for how that relates to the story that is directly relational to yourself.

These truths are gonna be measured at the self evident level. You know if they work through the discipline of the practice of their functions and you see the effect over the attrition of that practice. One doesn't go from 0 to 100, and it's like achieving a relative rhythm to even perceive those realities.

What it boils down to, you should use metaphysics to adjust the aspects in which you approach situations when it comes to practicality. I use metaphysics to reprogram my perception and work my Ego into different shapes. The measurement is again mostly at the self evident level but it comes more apparent when you're wading through reality with less resistance.

I also believe that you don't know in this "classical information" in which can be purely reduced to words. Someone in the stream especially using psychic abilities it's outside actual comprehensions of expression and any attempt won't have the totality of information that is actually there to the one experiencing itself. That knowing is Quantum and trying to measure even how functions work, you are emerging patterns out of you based upon something that can't actually be expressed.

In my models we are are in a collective projection and the states it can resolve in are ones where the entropy of itself paradoxes it's experience. In other words you can't propagate underwires of reality (think Quantum Immortality theory but with probable viewable realities) and their descriptions where its proven true unless there is framework there that would prevent it's collapse in reason which that collective resonates with in at least what they forfeit to the superposition of itself.

My reply here was pretty dense and I'm not always the best with grammar structure but I tried to relay my points I hope some of you can see what I'm saying. Thank you.