I Ching (Book of Changes) - Do you use it for meditation, divination, or magic?

[Ziran]

Establishing what is already known? Sure kid, knock yourself out.

Hee-hee. "Establishing what is already known" <---- That's what divination is all about.

The point: does it matter if it's random or not? What do you think? Regarding the i-Ching, it seems to me that examining the traditional method would be a good place to start answering that question.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

Hee-hee. "Establishing what is already known" <---- That's what divination is all about.

The point: does it matter if it's random or not? What do you think? Regarding the i-Ching, it seems to me that examining the traditional method would be a good place to start answering that question.

I think you all are getting off track here.
The IChing can be done any way one chooses to do so. Screw technology.
If you're going to do IChing, do it the way it was meant - coins or sticks.
If you don't want random, then read it linearly and try to embody the interpretations of the trigrams you are on.
If you want random, toss six coins or six sticks that have a trigram on each stick.

 

[Xenophon]

Getting back to IChing by hand, I've wanted to try the sticks method. Free chopsticks from a takeout restaurant could be used, but I recommend ten trips to the store over a week, taking up a total of 32 chopstick pairs.

Why not just one trip and buy a bunch?

Post automatically merged: Nov 2, 2023

Hee-hee. "Establishing what is already known" <---- That's what divination is all about.

The point: does it matter if it's random or not? What do you think? Regarding the i-Ching, it seems to me that examining the traditional method would be a good place to start answering that question.

I have used the old method. I was thinking of cases when one finds oneself wandered far off down the long and winding 道 /Dao/road and his yarrow stalks are languishing back at home. I have developed a method---Gawd that sounds pretentious. I have hit upon a simple way to do rune casts using a deck of playing cards I carry in my backpack. I imagine one could work out a way to do the I Ching too.

 

[Egoid C]

Here's a question. On the road, I don't always have dice. Anyone try using an online random number generator? Set paramaters 1-64 for the hexagram. 1-6 for the line. Aesthetically I do not like it. Still, I can't think of any good reason not to use the expedient.

You could always adapt Arabic/Western geomantic techniques in order to form your hexagrams (making 6 rows of marks instead of 16 and then continuing from there)

 

[Xenophon]

Heck, I imagine I could use the last digits of license plates on passing cars, odd or even. Or whether the next person I see in the street is a man or a woman.

 

[Egoid C]

Heck, I imagine I could use the last digits of license plates on passing cars, odd or even. Or whether the next person I see in the street is a man or a woman.

That's true! Though I think the latter would have less than a 50/50 chance based on population differences

 

[Xenophon]

Here it's about 52% women. That's probably better odds than I get with my dice which have a propensity for 3 and 5, I swear

 

[Caliban]

I use the Wilhelm-Baynes, and either three coins or (rarely) dice (which I prefer for Western geomancy). That's for consulting/divination, which is magic and is also a meditation.

For study & understanding the roots and development of the system, my go-to version is Alfred Huang, who has the advantage of being a scholar of classical Chinese works.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

I don't use the I Ching, but I have read a couple of translations, one of which is Ursula LeGuin's. She also discusses the nature of the translation, and why she has chosen certain ways of putting things, so as to attempt to get over the essential meaning of the original text.

I came away from the book realising that Ursula Le Guin was waaaaaaay smarter than me

 

[KjEno186]

I don't use the I Ching, but I have read a couple of translations, one of which is Ursula LeGuin's. She also discusses the nature of the translation, and why she has chosen certain ways of putting things, so as to attempt to get over the essential meaning of the original text.

I came away from the book realising that Ursula Le Guin was waaaaaaay smarter than me

I've only ever read her Earthsea fiction, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I must look into her take on the I Ching. Thanks for mentioning it!

 

[Ziran]

I use the Wilhelm-Baynes, and either three coins or (rarely) dice (which I prefer for Western geomancy). That's for consulting/divination, which is magic and is also a meditation.

For study & understanding the roots and development of the system, my go-to version is Alfred Huang, who has the advantage of being a scholar of classical Chinese works.

thank you, that's very helpful.

 

[Xenophon]

I don't use the I Ching, but I have read a couple of translations, one of which is Ursula LeGuin's. She also discusses the nature of the translation, and why she has chosen certain ways of putting things, so as to attempt to get over the essential meaning of the original text.

I came away from the book realising that Ursula Le Guin was waaaaaaay smarter than me

"Get over" the meaning? Do you mean "convey" or "overcome"? I looked at a few reviews. Most of them call her work an "interpretation," or a "rendition." Which makes me damned suspicious of the contents. Rewriting culturally inconvenient literature is an entire industry in these times.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

"Get over" the meaning? Do you mean "convey" or "overcome"? I looked at a few reviews. Most of them call her work an "interpretation," or a "rendition." Which makes me damned suspicious of the contents. Rewriting culturally inconvenient literature is an entire industry in these times.

I mean "convey". Why not read it yourself and see what you think?

 

[Xenophon]

I mean "convey". Why not read it yourself and see what you think?

Because I read modern Chinese well; ancient Chinese well enough to ask intelligent questions. Besides, LeGuin's "rendition" of the Dao De Jing struck me as singularly unimpressive. She made her name as a sci fi writer and now takes a stab at a "deep" translation of a classic. Reminds me of the Labrador dog that's good at retrieving shot ducks deciding to wow its masters by walking on its hind legs too. Impressive...but where's the need?

In A word, life is too short. I've had my sip from the LeGuin glass. Expecting a champagne flute, I found a urine cup.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

Well, now I feel like Mr. Cramden in 'Our Man Flint'...

Derek Flint : Breakfast, sir?
Mr. Cramden : I had lunch two hours ago.
Derek Flint : Oh, I must still be on Moscow time.
Mr. Cramden : Moscow? Business?
Derek Flint : No. Ballet, sir.
Mr. Cramden : You travelled to Moscow to watch a ballet?
Derek Flint : No, to teach.

 

[Caliban]

Ursula Le Guin translated the Tao Te Ching, which is an entirely different classical text from the I Ching.

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[theil]

There's a recovery pod cast I listen to that uses different translations the Tao Te Ching to discuss it's message for addition recovery in connection to AA. It's got me interested in the I Ching to see how it's worked into different occult modalities and how i might be able to use it.

 

[Xenophon]

Getting back to IChing by hand, I've wanted to try the sticks method. Free chopsticks from a takeout restaurant could be used, but I recommend ten trips to the store over a week, taking up a total of 32 chopstick pairs.

I have in the past just splurged and bought a pack of toothpicks. Living in China, I could go pick the mandated yarrow stalks, but I think it ill-mannered ecologically to go rooting up wild plants in a land thus too densely populated.

 

[Xingtian]

There's a recovery pod cast I listen to that uses different translations the Tao Te Ching to discuss it's message for addition recovery in connection to AA. It's got me interested in the I Ching to see how it's worked into different occult modalities and how i might be able to use i

I Ching is a very different book from Tao Te Ching, much more multi-layered and complex. If you want to understand its influence the best place to start is probably the Great Commentary AKA Appended Phrases which lays out the cosmology that would be so influential in China as well as Japan, Korea, and Vietnam. This text is included in complete I Ching texts like the Wilhelm Baynes translation.

 

[theil]

I Ching is a very different book from Tao Te Ching, much more multi-layered and complex. If you want to understand its influence the best place to start is probably the Great Commentary AKA Appended Phrases which lays out the cosmology that would be so influential in China as well as Japan, Korea, and Vietnam. This text is included in complete I Ching texts like the Wilhelm Baynes translation.

Thanks. That's my understanding as well, there's a difference. Tao Te Ching was mentioned in this thread before and got me here to the I Ching. I'll check out W Baynes translation