I Ching (Book of Changes) - Do you use it for meditation, divination, or magic?

[tiger's eye]

I'm chinese,I often use a divination way called MeiHuaYiShu.it very close to iching,but different.They all use the elements called BaGua.it simple and useful,you can use this divination even without any tools,just look something that around you,like colors,numbers and else.There have a classic book just called MEIHUAYISHU by ShaoYong.I don't know if this book has been translated,if you interest in it you can try to read it,or look for some English book about this.my English it not well guys,sorry about that.

Post automatically merged: Mar 1, 2024

我过去只是挥霍买了一包牙签。生活在中国，我可以去采摘指定的西洋蓍草茎，但我认为在人口过于稠密的土地上拔除野生植物在生态上是不礼貌的。

you can use any tools that symbolize numbers,that is ok.in china we almost use morden ways to use it,like the mobile phone apps.I think using yarrow just people have no other tools in that time,but yarrow was common.

 

[Xingtian]

I'm chinese,I often use a divination way called MeiHuaYiShu.it very close to iching,but different.They all use the elements called BaGua.it simple and useful,you can use this divination even without any tools,just look something that around you,like colors,numbers and else.There have a classic book just called MEIHUAYISHU by ShaoYong.I don't know if this book has been translated,if you interest in it you can try to read it,or look for some English book about this.my English it not well guys,sorry about that.

Post automatically merged: Mar 1, 2024

you can use any tools that symbolize numbers,that is ok.in china we almost use morden ways to use it,like the mobile phone apps.I think using yarrow just people have no other tools in that time,but yarrow was common.

Yeah, Meihua (plum blossom) divination is well known in China but almost unknown in the west. The only reliable presentation of this method in English is Da Liu’s book I Ching Numerology. It’s an interpretation rather than translation of Shao Yong’s book. It’s out of print but I have a pdf, I’ll try and share it later.

 

[Xenophon]

Yeah, Meihua (plum blossom) divination is well known in China but almost unknown in the west. The only reliable presentation of this method in English is Da Liu’s book I Ching Numerology. It’s an interpretation rather than translation of Shao Yong’s book. It’s out of print but I have a pdf, I’ll try and share it later.

I live about an hour from the biggest bookstore in Beijing. I should see if they have aught there in Chinese. Or, better yet, Tao Bao, the Chinese Amazon.

 

[Xenophon]

I'm chinese,I often use a divination way called MeiHuaYiShu.it very close to iching,but different.They all use the elements called BaGua.it simple and useful,you can use this divination even without any tools,just look something that around you,like colors,numbers and else.There have a classic book just called MEIHUAYISHU by ShaoYong.I don't know if this book has been translated,if you interest in it you can try to read it,or look for some English book about this.my English it not well guys,sorry about that.

Post automatically merged: Mar 1, 2024

you can use any tools that symbolize numbers,that is ok.in china we almost use morden ways to use it,like the mobile phone apps.I think using yarrow just people have no other tools in that time,but yarrow was common.

The 梅花 I can get, but how are you writing "yi shu?" The only word I know for divination is 占卜。"Zhan bu." Is the shu 书?

On occasion in the street, I have used random number generators 1-64 for the hexagram and 1-6 for the line. (Doing the Yi Jing/ I Ching)

 

[tiger's eye]

I live about an hour from the biggest bookstore in Beijing. I should see if they have aught there in Chinese. Or, better yet, Tao Bao, the Chinese Amazon.

yeah,you can get it in Tao Bao.

Post automatically merged: Mar 2, 2024

The 梅花 I can get, but how are you writing "yi shu?" The only word I know for divination is 占卜。"Zhan bu." Is the shu 书?

On occasion in the street, I have used random number generators 1-64 for the hexagram and 1-6 for the line. (Doing the Yi Jing/ I Ching)

"yishu"in chinese should be 易数.
at the beginning 易 just means iching,because iching is a divination book,it not just talk about divination,we thing there have many wisdoms in it,like how to live with nature,how to make a thing successful,how to make yourself away from some dangerous,etc.some people try to explain ichang afterwards,they discussed a lot and write many book to record their ideas(include the book to record them what say,but the writers are other people),so we use 易 to mean that thoughts like iching and its ideas or any divination way that use this elements and ideas.
数 means this divination use the number a lot and be famous for "namber".there have a story about that.one day Shao Yong and his friend go out.his friend know he is a divination master,and there is no tools can divination(like yarrow).so the friend let Shao Yong to divide with no tools.Shao Yong look around,he found a plum blossom,the plum blossom has many petals,he decided to use it to divination.
the legend story is the reason that why this divination called MeiHuaYiShu.

Post automatically merged: Mar 2, 2024

yeah,you can get it in Tao Bao.

Post automatically merged: Mar 2, 2024

"yishu"in chinese should be 易数.
at the beginning 易 just means iching,because iching is a divination book,it not just talk about divination,we thing there have many wisdoms in it,like how to live with nature,how to make a thing successful,how to make yourself away from some dangerous,etc.some people try to explain ichang afterwards,they discussed a lot and write many book to record their ideas(include the book to record them what say,but the writers are other people),so we use 易 to mean that thoughts like iching and its ideas or any divination way that use this elements and ideas.
数 means this divination use the number a lot and be famous for "namber".there have a story about that.one day Shao Yong and his friend go out.his friend know he is a divination master,and there is no tools can divination(like yarrow).the friend doesn't believe that Shao Yong can divate with no tools,so he let Shao Yong to divide now with no tools.Shao Yong look around,he found a plum blossom,the plum blossom has many petals,he decided to use it to divination.
the legend story is the reason that why this divination called MeiHuaYiShu.

Post automatically merged: Mar 2, 2024

yeah,you can get it in Tao Bao.

Post automatically merged: Mar 2, 2024

"yishu"in chinese should be 易数.
at the beginning 易 just means iching,because iching is a divination book,it not just talk about divination,we thing there have many wisdoms in it,like how to live with nature,how to make a thing successful,how to make yourself away from some dangerous,etc.some people try to explain ichang afterwards,they discussed a lot and write many book to record their ideas(include the book to record them what say,but the writers are other people),so we use 易 to mean that thoughts like iching and its ideas or any divination way that use this elements and ideas.
数 means this divination use the number a lot and be famous for "namber".there have a story about that.one day Shao Yong and his friend go out.his friend know he is a divination master,and there is no tools can divination(like yarrow).so the friend let Shao Yong to divide with no tools.Shao Yong look around,he found a plum blossom,the plum blossom has many petals,he decided to use it to divination.
the legend story is the reason that why this divination called MeiHuaYiShu.

Post automatically merged: Mar 2, 2024

sorry guys,I posted a same reply but I don't know delete it,for this question you can check later one that I have been reviced

 

[Xingtian]

I live about an hour from the biggest bookstore in Beijing. I should see if they have aught there in Chinese. Or, better yet, Tao Bao, the Chinese Amazon.

If you do a web search for 梅花易数 you’ll find it online. Taobao will definitely have it- I was surprised how much stuff was available there, including all kinds of occult Daoist trinkets labeled 开光 (no way to verify that though). If someone wanted to convince westerners he was a Daoist wizard and start some kind of fake lineage he could easily order enough robes and paraphernalia to make a good impression.

 

[tiger's eye]

If you do a web search for 梅花易数 you’ll find it online. Taobao will definitely have it- I was surprised how much stuff was available there, including all kinds of occult Daoist trinkets labeled 开光 (no way to verify that though). If someone wanted to convince westerners he was a Daoist wizard and start some kind of fake lineage he could easily order enough robes and paraphernalia to make a good impression.

yes,there have a lot like these online,don't believe that.these things prepare for people who believe this,or just like "blessing words" that make people feel good.Robes and some else maybe for cosplay or performance and show.开光 it likes folk customs,but most of them just want to take your money through this word.

 

[KjEno186]

Let's keep to the topic: I Ching (Book of Changes). You may open another thread to discuss other aspects of Chinese beliefs and magic in a suitable sub-forum. In this way people who are interested in a specific topic will find the thread discussing it more easily. Thank you.

 

[fraterpa]

Hi, I use I-Ching on a regular basis for personal consulting, just like Tarot divination and usually it provides me with a very broad perspective on the subject being consulted.

I adore using James de Korne's "The Gnostic Book of Changes", which not only gathers translations by various authors, like Legge, Wilhelm, Liu, Karcher, etc. but also spices it up with a psychological, or psychoanalytical (Jung school) and Western Esoteric interpretation. His whole book is available online and I advise you to have a look at it:

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When it comes to tools, I use this neat set of yarrows, or rather wood blocks produced by my friend (photo attached).

I-Ching is a wonderful system and one can spend all his_her life on mastering it. Also it overlaps with some notions from the Western Esoteric Tradition and such persons as Aleister Crowley spend quite a lot of time on decoding this and working on a system of assignments.

Post automatically merged: Mar 13, 2024

I try to link the image of the I-Ching set I use, once again. The previous one disappeared.

 

[a963]

I Ching divination is a large group, the most primitive is to use yarrow rods for divination, later extended to use the same number of wooden blocks, and then the use of coins for divination, until Shao Yong opened the I Ching a new way of divination Plum Blossom Yi, Plum Blossom Yi is the most important feature is to take the trigrams by the number of words, but the Plum Blossom Yi is very much focused on the external edge, that is, some of the external characteristics or signs in the divination of trigrams, which is a little more difficult to the novice. This point is more difficult for novices.

 

[frater_pan]

I use the three coin method and in the past have used Wing's Illustrated I Ching. Currently exploring Benebell Wen's I Ching book.

 

[Lurker]

No, I don't currently use the I Ching, but lately it keeps popping up on my radar. Maybe I should start looking into it, but I have a strong link with my tarot and oracle cards. At the risk of sounding woo-woo, I'm not sure how they would react.

Well. They're not truly random. Whether or not that matters would depend on how one views the underlying mechanism of the method for attaining foreknowledge. If it is a "spirit" that desires or is compelled to share the information, then it would probably be very important to avoid any "material world" interference with their subtle manipulations of the medium. On the other hand if it is deterministic of a specific sequence of events on a specific timeline in a multi-verse, then, it doesn't matter at all.

Then there's secret option #3, that the human mind is involved in creating / altering reality in a literal manner such that the foreknowledge is actually seeding / incepting / and ammending the sequence of events with the assistance of the magic inherent in the human who is casting the lots.

Well, since you went there (a year-and-a-half ago), all of these processes - rolling dice, tossing and flipping coins, tossing yarrow sticks - are deterministic processes governed by Newtonian physics. We just call them random because in the (so-called) real world, measuring all of the variables involved with enough precision to make accurate predictions is problematic. But in principle, they are all deterministic. Most people can't see inside the algorithm they're using any better, so it appears equally random to the non-cyber processes, even if truly deterministic.

Divination comes down to using one's intuition in when and how to, for example, toss the coins (or stop shuffling and deal the cards). IMO using a RNG shouldn't be any different, just let your intuition guide you.

A bit of an aside, but I thought Xenophon's response to you was rather grumpy. You were being your usual genteel self.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 5:30 PM

Most people can't see inside the algorithm they're using any better, so it appears equally random to the non-cyber processes, even if truly deterministic.

That sentence should read "Most people can't see inside the RNG algorithm they're using any better than they can measure all the variables used in other divination methods, so it appears random to them, even though all of the processes under discussion are (ultimately) deterministic."

(I originally added that sentence while editing and was therefore playing Beat the Clock, so of course I had to wordsmith it a bit for clarity.)

 

[Ziran]

all of these processes - rolling dice, tossing and flipping coins, tossing yarrow sticks - are deterministic processes governed by Newtonian physics

All events include elements of random chaos. Newtonian physics is an approximation which works in many cases, but, I don't think it is a good model in this context.