I feel like we're all standing at the edge of chaos

[GhostGirl]

I used to be a Christian, and when you are such, there tends to be this… Mental safety net. That there was at least SOMEONE watching over everything and that, someway, somehow, things would be made right. Having broken away from that religion and going into the vast world of magick and the occult, I feel far less comfortable and much more afraid.

Usually I’ve noticed that when people come into this kind of occult life, they tend to be very excited or at least perfectly fine with everything, spiritual wise. But for me, breaking off from Christianity has just slowly filled me with dread.

I know that there are such beautiful wonders in the spirit world too amazing to even write about. I know that there’s many, many good people out there and (I hope) also good deities, but it seems my focus inevitably gets drawn not to that, but to the horrible, unfair, and oppressive darkness that opposes light and life in general. The sheer selfishness that threatens to, sooner or later, engulf everything into a truly endless nightmare of misery with nothing and no one to save us.

If there’s no deity that is truly all-powerful or, alternatively, if there’s no powerful enough deity that is willing to intervene in a spiritual sense to pull us from those horrible beings and energies which sap energy and and inflict endless pain… What then are we supposed to do? Are we all just dicking around on the edge of a cliff, completely oblivious to, or trying to ignore the abyssal fiends and entities which belong there waiting for us to fall in?

This shit keeps me up at night. I don’t have any answers. I just try to accumulate as much knowledge and power to myself as possible and hope dearly that things aren’t as bad at all in the spiritual realm as I’m imagining.

 

[SkullTraill]

I used to be a Christian, and when you are such, there tends to be this… Mental safety net. That there was at least SOMEONE watching over everything and that, someway, somehow, things would be made right. Having broken away from that religion and going into the vast world of magick and the occult, I feel far less comfortable and much more afraid.

Usually I’ve noticed that when people come into this kind of occult life, they tend to be very excited or at least perfectly fine with everything, spiritual wise. But for me, breaking off from Christianity has just slowly filled me with dread.

I know that there are such beautiful wonders in the spirit world too amazing to even write about. I know that there’s many, many good people out there and (I hope) also good deities, but it seems my focus inevitably gets drawn not to that, but to the horrible, unfair, and oppressive darkness that opposes light and life in general. The sheer selfishness that threatens to, sooner or later, engulf everything into a truly endless nightmare of misery with nothing and no one to save us.

If there’s no deity that is truly all-powerful or, alternatively, if there’s no powerful enough deity that is willing to intervene in a spiritual sense to pull us from those horrible beings and energies which sap energy and and inflict endless pain… What then are we supposed to do? Are we all just dicking around on the edge of a cliff, completely oblivious to, or trying to ignore the abyssal fiends and entities which belong there waiting for us to fall in?

This shit keeps me up at night. I don’t have any answers. I just try to accumulate as much knowledge and power to myself as possible and hope dearly that things aren’t as bad at all in the spiritual realm as I’m imagining.

I sympathize with your predicament. I parted ways with religion when I was much younger, so it didn’t hit me immediately. For me, existential dread and the futility of life hit me some time after that when I really started exploring philosophy, science and cosmology.

I think one of the reasons religion and spirituality feel so warm, natural and welcoming for sapient beings is because of how dark, cold, meaningless and brutal reality/nature/the universe is.

I don’t think there’s any solution to this aside from blissful ignorance, religion, or some other form of spirituality. Without that there is only the crushing abyss of the eternal void.

As for malevolent beings, entities, energies etc, yeah. You just have to believe that you are either too insignificant to be targeted for meddling. Or you have to believe that there is some divine power that you can attain that will enable you to protect yourself from them. Or just live with the dread.

The whole purpose of the occult is to combat this soul crushing powerlessness.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

I actually find non-belief in a spiritual realm quite comforting. It gives me one less thing to worry about. Since it means that 'meaning' is a human thing, and not an intrinsic property of the universe, I can put all my effort into making sure my life means something to me and to the people I care about.

Definitely, the occult has played a big part in investing my life with meaning.

 

[SkullTraill]

I actually find non-belief in a spiritual realm quite comforting. It gives me one less thing to worry about. Since it means that 'meaning' is a human thing, and not an intrinsic property of the universe, I can put all my effort into making sure my life means something to me and to the people I care about.

Definitely, the occult has played a big part in investing my life with meaning.

Honestly I think OP was more talking about not having a benevolent overlord to safekeep us from malevolent occult entities.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

Honestly I think OP was more talking about not having a benevolent overlord to safekeep us from malevolent occult entities.

oh sorry! I guess that since I don't believe in the malevolent occult entities, the question doesn't come up for me

 

[Romolo]

If there’s no deity that is truly all-powerful or, alternatively, if there’s no powerful enough deity that is willing to intervene in a spiritual sense to pull us from those horrible beings and energies which sap energy and and inflict endless pain… What then are we supposed to do? Are we all just dicking around on the edge of a cliff, completely oblivious to, or trying to ignore the abyssal fiends and entities which belong there waiting for us to fall in?

I understand you. Try to see it like this: the God of the sky god religions is refracted into all elements around you: the wind, the golden ripples on a pond, the warm soil after a summer rain. Those are all fragments of the divine. God might not exist anymore in the same dogmatic way of Christianity (and this idea can cause great distress), but maybe in this way, God has been ”freed” from the concept of being, and this offers great freedom and opportunity for moments of grace.

In qabalah, Tiphareth shines on the lower part of the Tree. Tiphareth is the Sun whose rays lifts your chin up and fill the eyes with beauty. It is the moment the internal monologue shuts down and the grasshoppers fill your ears. Conduct your rituals and spells under the rays of Tiphareth, but also add to that the playful hip swing of Netzach and the eloquence and poetry of Hod, and all that is lacking under strict religious dogmas.

My druid practice equally prescribes no roof between yourself and heaven, but honors the Sun. Contact with the divine can happen wordlessly during transubstantiation, when you drink a cup of water while the sunlight merges with the water surface.

 

[Morell]

I used to be a Christian, and when you are such, there tends to be this… Mental safety net. That there was at least SOMEONE watching over everything and that, someway, somehow, things would be made right. Having broken away from that religion and going into the vast world of magick and the occult, I feel far less comfortable and much more afraid.

Usually I’ve noticed that when people come into this kind of occult life, they tend to be very excited or at least perfectly fine with everything, spiritual wise. But for me, breaking off from Christianity has just slowly filled me with dread.

I know that there are such beautiful wonders in the spirit world too amazing to even write about. I know that there’s many, many good people out there and (I hope) also good deities, but it seems my focus inevitably gets drawn not to that, but to the horrible, unfair, and oppressive darkness that opposes light and life in general. The sheer selfishness that threatens to, sooner or later, engulf everything into a truly endless nightmare of misery with nothing and no one to save us.

If there’s no deity that is truly all-powerful or, alternatively, if there’s no powerful enough deity that is willing to intervene in a spiritual sense to pull us from those horrible beings and energies which sap energy and and inflict endless pain… What then are we supposed to do? Are we all just dicking around on the edge of a cliff, completely oblivious to, or trying to ignore the abyssal fiends and entities which belong there waiting for us to fall in?

This shit keeps me up at night. I don’t have any answers. I just try to accumulate as much knowledge and power to myself as possible and hope dearly that things aren’t as bad at all in the spiritual realm as I’m imagining.

I think it was some pagans who invented the term "suitcase Jesus," which means any aspect of Christianity, which remains with you despite the fact that you left the religion.
It is spoken about in deconstruction of Christianity after leaving it. The fact is that even after leaving Christianity, many pagans, although no longer believing in Jesus, still carry with them a lot of mind sets. Some examples are fear of hell, guilt of being dammed, finding new one and only true religion, need to convert others to your religion, elitism, claiming your religion to be the only truth...
Deconstructing therefore takes a long time even after leaving the faith in Christ. So what you say and feel is quite normal, simply your current stage of that process.

I'll tell you something that will help you along the way: The world and how it works doesn't change basing on what you know or believe about it.

Do you believe that there is the highest god? The world works, Do you not believe? The world works. Whether you need someone powerful by your side is how you perceive it.
Another secret: to construct and deconstruct how we understand our world is a skill that you need any time you are trying to learn and find out how the world is and works. Since you're never truly right, you always need to be able to let go of your opinion (deconstruct) so you can accept better one.

 

[Accipeveldare]

I used to be a Christian, and when you are such, there tends to be this… Mental safety net. That there was at least SOMEONE watching over everything and that, someway, somehow, things would be made right. Having broken away from that religion and going into the vast world of magick and the occult, I feel far less comfortable and much more afraid.

Usually I’ve noticed that when people come into this kind of occult life, they tend to be very excited or at least perfectly fine with everything, spiritual wise. But for me, breaking off from Christianity has just slowly filled me with dread.

I know that there are such beautiful wonders in the spirit world too amazing to even write about. I know that there’s many, many good people out there and (I hope) also good deities, but it seems my focus inevitably gets drawn not to that, but to the horrible, unfair, and oppressive darkness that opposes light and life in general. The sheer selfishness that threatens to, sooner or later, engulf everything into a truly endless nightmare of misery with nothing and no one to save us.

If there’s no deity that is truly all-powerful or, alternatively, if there’s no powerful enough deity that is willing to intervene in a spiritual sense to pull us from those horrible beings and energies which sap energy and and inflict endless pain… What then are we supposed to do? Are we all just dicking around on the edge of a cliff, completely oblivious to, or trying to ignore the abyssal fiends and entities which belong there waiting for us to fall in?

This shit keeps me up at night. I don’t have any answers. I just try to accumulate as much knowledge and power to myself as possible and hope dearly that things aren’t as bad at all in the spiritual realm as I’m imagining.

As most practitioners should know, studying the esoteric has its good and bad sides. It's very risky at times. However, if you do things right you may discover many beautiful things are to be found in the occult. The universe is like a double bladed dagger. One side is dull and harmless and the other can cut you deep. Whether you choose to learn from these cuts is your choice. I wish you luck on your journey.

 

[Shade]

Honestly I think OP was more talking about not having a benevolent overlord to safekeep us from malevolent occult entities.

That lady on YT that seems to be popular amongst many people here called “The Alchemist” covered this just yesterday. she mentions that the law of one is a very powerful tool, it’s something I kind of hinted on in the “Protection Divine Will” opinion thread.

 

[IllusiveOwl]

These are raw fears and it's important to face them. I've found that focusing on the sheer mystery that anything is in the first place and that you, a bubble of individuality, somehow exist in the midst of it...

You set aside the idea of a creator, that doesn't mean there is nothing, it just means you admit to not knowing. Through the pursuit of wisdom and knowledge, you can look within & without to find truths out for yourself.

You're setting aside false certainty for the ultimate confrontation with reality. I hope you grow and find some type of enlightenment.

You are correct, we are standing on a cliff and can be forced into the unknown, alone, at any moment. Meditating on this truth can bring you great depth of presence in each moment of your life.

 

[GhostGirl]

God has been ”freed” from the concept of being, and this offers great freedom and opportunity for moments of grace.

Maybe. But there's so much contradictory information about God that one cannot say one way or another whether something is indeed God or just happy feelings induced by insidious parasites, spiritual and otherwise, that make a theater of wisdom and goodness just so they can suck us down and perhaps even lull us into ignoring the atrocities occurring right now in the world at this very second. "Oh it's fine! Everything will work out in the end. I'll take care of it."

But no one is actually taking care of it, nor will they. No one and nothing. It may just fall to us to do something. Only living humans alone, because spiritually speaking, we seem to be very alone with only ourselves for true company.

The world works

Does it? Does it really? It seems pretty damn chaotic to me.

Since you're never truly right, you always need to be able to let go of your opinion (deconstruct) so you can accept better one.

Oh I understand this. Perhaps better than most if I might be so bold to say.

One side is dull and harmless and the other can cut you deep. Whether you choose to learn from these cuts is your choice. I wish you luck on your journey.

If only it were just cuts though. If it were, I wouldn't have made this thread. From a few of the accounts of the spirit world I'm reading though, spirits have been trapped completely or even obliterated outright. That is far more than just a "cut". This is extremely serious and something that needs to be discussed more in general in the occult community I think.

the law of one is a very powerful tool

The Law of One is based on the idea that we are all technically part of this one benevolent consciousness. This has several issues with it. Also, you would be incredibly hard-pressed to prove that karma in general actually exists. Oh sure, it sounds nice on paper, but there have been so many mass murderers and greedy assholes that have completely escaped any form of punishment or reprisal. On the other hand too, I've seen many, MANY good people suffer terrible things as well. Continually.

 

[Shade]

hard-pressed to prove that karma in general actually exists. Oh sure, it sounds nice on paper, but there have been so many mass murderers and greedy assholes that have completely escaped any form of punishment or reprisal. On the other hand too, I've seen many, MANY good people suffer terrible things as well. Continually.

Hard pressed to prove yes, but my view of karma varies WIDLEY from (to my knowledge) how anyone else see’s it let alone believe it. I don’t think of karma as this or that. My theory of it which I may do at some point encompasses many aspects of life and its not the same as “do good and good things come and bad things happen to those that deserve it” that is a tiny puzzle piece but very far from the actual roll karma plays as a whole….
But
I don’t expect anyone to really understand, see it from my point of view or even believe it. I think it’s kind of amusing people thing I have a puppy dog and rainbows care free hippy view of the world where it rains skittles… nope the world rains hellfire. But it’s still alright to bask in it. Everyone is tortured by it one way or another. It’s about not fighting the hell but welcoming it.
I don’t want to take away from the OP’s post so I won’t get into further detail.

 

[Accipeveldare]

Maybe. But there's so much contradictory information about God that one cannot say one way or another whether something is indeed God or just happy feelings induced by insidious parasites, spiritual and otherwise, that make a theater of wisdom and goodness just so they can suck us down and perhaps even lull us into ignoring the atrocities occurring right now in the world at this very second. "Oh it's fine! Everything will work out in the end. I'll take care of it."

But no one is actually taking care of it, nor will they. No one and nothing. It may just fall to us to do something. Only living humans alone, because spiritually speaking, we seem to be very alone with only ourselves for true company.



Does it? Does it really? It seems pretty damn chaotic to me.



Oh I understand this. Perhaps better than most if I might be so bold to say.



If only it were just cuts though. If it were, I wouldn't have made this thread. From a few of the accounts of the spirit world I'm reading though, spirits have been trapped completely or even obliterated outright. That is far more than just a "cut". This is extremely serious and something that needs to be discussed more in general in the occult community I think.



The Law of One is based on the idea that we are all technically part of this one benevolent consciousness. This has several issues with it. Also, you would be incredibly hard-pressed to prove that karma in general actually exists. Oh sure, it sounds nice on paper, but there have been so many mass murderers and greedy assholes that have completely escaped any form of punishment or reprisal. On the other hand too, I've seen many, MANY good people suffer terrible things as well. Continually.

The occult is very simple when you understand it. The risks can become mere obstacles if you understand how they form and where they come from. If you don't let them effect you then they won't

Post automatically merged: Sep 20, 2024

The occult is very simple when you understand it. The risks can become mere obstacles if you understand how they form and where they come from. If you don't let them effect you then they won't

We were never alone. The reason you don't know that is because you haven't truly experienced certain aspects of the occult

 

[GhostGirl]

I don’t want to take away from the OP’s post so I won’t get into further detail.

Please. Expound.

If you don't let them effect you then they won't

I certainly hope so. I really do. Because if we're wrong about this when we die... We are completely effed. Literally forever. Are you really willing to "go all in" on this statement?

We were never alone. The reason you don't know that is because you haven't truly experienced certain aspects of the occult

Could you explain this a little more?

 

[MageJohn183]

I used to be a Christian, and when you are such, there tends to be this… Mental safety net. That there was at least SOMEONE watching over everything and that, someway, somehow, things would be made right. Having broken away from that religion and going into the vast world of magick and the occult, I feel far less comfortable and much more afraid.

Usually I’ve noticed that when people come into this kind of occult life, they tend to be very excited or at least perfectly fine with everything, spiritual wise. But for me, breaking off from Christianity has just slowly filled me with dread.

I know that there are such beautiful wonders in the spirit world too amazing to even write about. I know that there’s many, many good people out there and (I hope) also good deities, but it seems my focus inevitably gets drawn not to that, but to the horrible, unfair, and oppressive darkness that opposes light and life in general. The sheer selfishness that threatens to, sooner or later, engulf everything into a truly endless nightmare of misery with nothing and no one to save us.

If there’s no deity that is truly all-powerful or, alternatively, if there’s no powerful enough deity that is willing to intervene in a spiritual sense to pull us from those horrible beings and energies which sap energy and and inflict endless pain… What then are we supposed to do? Are we all just dicking around on the edge of a cliff, completely oblivious to, or trying to ignore the abyssal fiends and entities which belong there waiting for us to fall in?

This shit keeps me up at night. I don’t have any answers. I just try to accumulate as much knowledge and power to myself as possible and hope dearly that things aren’t as bad at all in the spiritual realm as I’m imagining.

"What then are we supposed to do?" I understand completely. I really do. I was fully engaged with Christianity my whole life. The answer for me, at least, is to use magic to fight the causes of oppression and misery and pain in this world. Be the spiritual warrior they talk about in churches. It's a big challenge but a completely worthy one. Magic is soooo much more than love potions and lucky rabbit's feet. I have found that the Universe/Spiritual world/or whatever will support your endeavors. It just might take some time to realize it.

 

[Accipeveldare]

Please. Expound.



I certainly hope so. I really do. Because if we're wrong about this when we die... We are completely effed. Literally forever. Are you really willing to "go all in" on this statement?



Could you explain this a little more?

Well, when you see things for yourself, you will realize we are not "effed" unless we let our selves be "effed". But in order to realize these things you must take the time to meditate on these things and to see things for yourself. I'll even admit, I was Christian once too. And when I started the Occult I was scared for the same reasons. But when I truly started learning the truths of our universe I realized I don't have to be effed if I don't want to be. I saw things that even I can't explain or fully comprehend but I did learn one thing. We choose what happens when we die. We are the controllers and builders of the cosmos.

 

[HoldAll]

Christianity is so seductive because it offers salvation and trouble-free eternal life filled with bliss which we'll never achieve while on this plane. It's a 'jam tomorrow' promise but seductive nevertheless, and if you give up on this hope of salvation, you're left with the stark reality of human existence - abandoning Christianity means abandoning salvation, the ultimate comfort. I think that in the absence of religion, we each construct our own belief systems instead but of course it's hard to compete with a powerful world religion. The idea of salvation got us hooked because after all, everyone wants things to turn out right in the end. The flip side of course is that it can go the other way, too… eternal torment and no salvation instead. Christians tend to repress that doctrine, it's always 'those evil horrible other people' that will surely go to hell, not oneself for some past sins they don't even remember clearly - who has never even once committed one of the seven deadly sins? There's the 'sweet hippie Jesus' lovey-dovey kind of Christianity, the sadist fundie 'fire and brimstone' variety, and believers can never be 100% sure who's right.

Post automatically merged: Sep 23, 2024

An all-powerful being who is gravely offended by transgressions committed by me, a puny mortal? I call that pathetic.

 

[Konsciencia]

I used to be a Christian, and when you are such, there tends to be this… Mental safety net. That there was at least SOMEONE watching over everything and that, someway, somehow, things would be made right. Having broken away from that religion and going into the vast world of magick and the occult, I feel far less comfortable and much more afraid.

Usually I’ve noticed that when people come into this kind of occult life, they tend to be very excited or at least perfectly fine with everything, spiritual wise. But for me, breaking off from Christianity has just slowly filled me with dread.

I know that there are such beautiful wonders in the spirit world too amazing to even write about. I know that there’s many, many good people out there and (I hope) also good deities, but it seems my focus inevitably gets drawn not to that, but to the horrible, unfair, and oppressive darkness that opposes light and life in general. The sheer selfishness that threatens to, sooner or later, engulf everything into a truly endless nightmare of misery with nothing and no one to save us.

If there’s no deity that is truly all-powerful or, alternatively, if there’s no powerful enough deity that is willing to intervene in a spiritual sense to pull us from those horrible beings and energies which sap energy and and inflict endless pain… What then are we supposed to do? Are we all just dicking around on the edge of a cliff, completely oblivious to, or trying to ignore the abyssal fiends and entities which belong there waiting for us to fall in?

This shit keeps me up at night. I don’t have any answers. I just try to accumulate as much knowledge and power to myself as possible and hope dearly that things aren’t as bad at all in the spiritual realm as I’m imagining.

There is a Source that governs each one of us. However, this Source like to play with It's Creations. Even though, I Love this Entity despite of the chaos, The Universe does not give a fuck about anything. Except having fun with it's games. I know, I am see this on my end.

 

[Shade]

I used to be a Christian, and when you are such, there tends to be this… Mental safety net. That there was at least SOMEONE watching over everything and that, someway, somehow, things would be made right. Having broken away from that religion and going into the vast world of magick and the occult, I feel far less comfortable and much more afraid.

Usually I’ve noticed that when people come into this kind of occult life, they tend to be very excited or at least perfectly fine with everything, spiritual wise. But for me, breaking off from Christianity has just slowly filled me with dread.

I know that there are such beautiful wonders in the spirit world too amazing to even write about. I know that there’s many, many good people out there and (I hope) also good deities, but it seems my focus inevitably gets drawn not to that, but to the horrible, unfair, and oppressive darkness that opposes light and life in general. The sheer selfishness that threatens to, sooner or later, engulf everything into a truly endless nightmare of misery with nothing and no one to save us.

If there’s no deity that is truly all-powerful or, alternatively, if there’s no powerful enough deity that is willing to intervene in a spiritual sense to pull us from those horrible beings and energies which sap energy and and inflict endless pain… What then are we supposed to do? Are we all just dicking around on the edge of a cliff, completely oblivious to, or trying to ignore the abyssal fiends and entities which belong there waiting for us to fall in?

This shit keeps me up at night. I don’t have any answers. I just try to accumulate as much knowledge and power to myself as possible and hope dearly that things aren’t as bad at all in the spiritual realm as I’m imagining.

These’s a word for when you are afraid of breaking away from a religion, or rather a phrase (albeit it’s a bit hyperbolic) “religious trauma syndrome” the direct definition would be more so those who are scared of hell or afraid of not have a safety net.

Just because you don’t believe in Christianity like you did doesn’t mean you need to reject an all powerful god or feel like you don’t have a safety net, it’s takes time to be comfortable in your own ski b and be your own leader rather than follow others. If you were an avid church goer you may be missing the social interactions subconsciously or a sense of belonging, that combined with the lack of safety net and a slight fear of the unknown in death are all very hard things that contribute to getting deprogrammed.

Some see our HGA that helps look out for us, others see the connection to the higher self is when you get that positive connection, there are good deities out there. But trusting yourself with an open mind is most important imo. I left the church at 14 one thing you have at your disposal is able to look at other religions and how Christianity has been skewed. In some texts it’s implied yhwh is the demiurge. Admittedly I still like Jesus but I wouldn’t consider myself a Christian.

I hope this sort of gives you different things to think about and avenues to go down.

 

[Jsinclair]

Who says that you can't have both? The esoteric is not an "all or none" proposition. Look into Lynn Picknett and Margaret Starbird's books. Or The Crafted Cup by Shadwynn. Or countless other examinations of various schools - Cabala or Christian Hermeticism, for example. Perhaps you don't need a divorce. Perhaps you need a couple's retreat well away from the poisonous "relatives" and outmoded "establishments".