If magick is real, why is it so obscure?

[Nickel77]

Hi! I've been in these spaces for a few months now, working with a few angels, demons, and sigils with some quite amazing results and some failures (sorta 50/50). I've had plenty of very revealing and supernatural tarot readings, channeled messages and general synchronicities. However, sometimes, especially when I'm having some failures, I still have some doubts and the biggest one is probably the title. Yes, I understand the nature of the occult is that it's occult. Yes, I am familiar with "To Know, To Will, To Dare, To Keep Silent" (love it). Yes, I am familiar with the fact that many religious and superstitious rituals are a form of magick. However, to believe and invest in the idea that I have this supernatural power that most people do not know of or use and that the people I meet in the forums like these are the only people who have really understood and refined this power feels hard to believe. Obviously, I am not trying to criticize any of you or your beliefs as I am one of you and probably share many of your beliefs, but this question still bothers me. I am hoping for some perspectives on this. would be really appreciated.
love
nickel77

 

[Robert Ramsay]

Hi! I've been in these spaces for a few months now, working with a few angels, demons, and sigils with some quite amazing results and some failures (sorta 50/50). I've had plenty of very revealing and supernatural tarot readings, channeled messages and general synchronicities. However, sometimes, especially when I'm having some failures, I still have some doubts and the biggest one is probably the title. Yes, I understand the nature of the occult is that it's occult. Yes, I am familiar with "To Know, To Will, To Dare, To Keep Silent" (love it). Yes, I am familiar with the fact that many religious and superstitious rituals are a form of magick. However, to believe and invest in the idea that I have this supernatural power that most people do not know of or use and that the people I meet in the forums like these are the only people who have really understood and refined this power feels hard to believe. Obviously, I am not trying to criticize any of you or your beliefs as I am one of you and probably share many of your beliefs, but this question still bothers me. I am hoping for some perspectives on this. would be really appreciated.
love
nickel77

My perspective on this is that

1) it's not supernatural, it's a way of using the human brain - almost like an 'exploit' in a video game.
2) Nobody knows why it works. There are a million models to allow you to use it, but the fact that many of them contradict each other and still produce successful results should tell us something.
3) Most people are simply not interested enough to either study it, or put in the hard work that success in any field requires.

 

[deci belle]

THIS, what Robert Ramsay said:

My perspective on this is that

1) it's not supernatural, it's a way of using the human brain - almost like an 'exploit' in a video game.
2) Nobody knows why it works. There are a million models to allow you to use it, but the fact that many of them contradict each other and still produce successful results should tell us something.
3) Most people are simply not interested enough to either study it, or put in the hard work that success in any field requires.

What I wanted to add before quoting Robert is that even Reality itself is the realm of inconceivability, but habituation to psychological (dualistic), processing of situational energy obscures Reality's potential, in a similar but unrelated sense as StarofSitra alluded to above. There's a reason the occult is occult— necessarily operating beyond the mores of dominant orthodoxies of provisional traditions of utility that (for good reason, are designed to) keep people in holding patterns until individuals themselves have the gumption and opportunity to release themselves somehow.

No different than gang members who want out of a gang (or the Ukraine wanting out of Russia).

 

[Robert Ramsay]

THIS, what Robert Ramsay said:


What I wanted to add before quoting Robert is that even Reality itself is the realm of inconceivability, but habituation to psychological (dualistic), processing of situational energy obscures Reality's potential, in a similar but unrelated sense as StarofSitra alluded to above. There's a reason the occult is occult— necessarily operating beyond the mores of dominant orthodoxies of provisional traditions of utility that (for good reason, are designed to) keep people in holding patterns until individuals themselves have the gumption and opportunity to release themselves somehow.

No different than gang members who want out of a gang (or the Ukraine wanting out of Russia).

I think a lot of it is like the way most people don't become brain surgeons.

 

[Keldan]

Magick is real, but it’s so obscure because of skepticism.

It’s not that nothing happens, it’s that most of what happens is personal, contextual, and hard to reproduce on command for an audience that’s already expecting it to fail.

This isn’t new at all. In the past, if someone lived on the outskirts of a village in a cabin full of herbs, most people wouldn’t call them a wizard (no pun intended) and accept that they practiced magick. They’d call them an odd healer, also a part time counselor and a diviner people visited when they were desperate and needed help to fix their problems. Even if that person mixed herbs, spoke incantations, and performed something in front of them, they would not call it magick.

Another reason magick stays obscure is that the existing systems are contradicting with each other. That doesn’t automatically mean any of them are wrong. It just means they each hold a piece of the pie, and that multiple routes can lead to results. That includes my personally built system developed over many years of practice. If a system consistently gets you where you’re trying to go, it’s hard to dismiss it just because it doesn’t match a popular framework.

To demonstrate that my method works, you have to deconstruct what you think you know about other systems. Skepticism kicks in immediately, especially when you can point to famous authors who have sold millions of books and say, “why should I believe some random person online?”

That leads to another question. Do those authors actually practice magick, or are they compiling and translating what already exists? And if a system relies on ancient, original texts, how confident are we that the translation preserved what mattered? Even small, incorrect translation errors can change everything. That could explain why certain rites seem to work consistently while others seem to be noticed by many to fall flat. The issue is that it’s hard to convince people of this from the outside. If a practitioner says “hey, that ritual is flawed because of the translation,” skepticism will usually dismiss them, especially if the ritual is famous or comes from a respected source. And you don’t even know if any of it is flawed even if you know magick, since it’s somebody else’s rituals. This is why magick is obscure, even when it’s real.

Even in a community like this where we practice, you’ll still find some members who don’t believe in an ounce of magick. They treat accounts of us as entertaining stories rather than evidence of anything occult.

My point is to do magick, be magick, whether anyone else believes in it or not. Magick isn’t one narrow highway, it’s more like a tree with countless branches. I just hope more people will look beyond the handful of popular paths and explore the many other branches of magick out there.

 

[Firetree]

Hi! I've been in these spaces for a few months now, working with a few angels, demons, and sigils with some quite amazing results and some failures (sorta 50/50). I've had plenty of very revealing and supernatural tarot readings, channeled messages and general synchronicities. However, sometimes, especially when I'm having some failures, I still have some doubts and the biggest one is probably the title. Yes, I understand the nature of the occult is that it's occult. Yes, I am familiar with "To Know, To Will, To Dare, To Keep Silent" (love it). Yes, I am familiar with the fact that many religious and superstitious rituals are a form of magick. However, to believe and invest in the idea that I have this supernatural power that most people do not know of or use and that the people I meet in the forums like these are the only people who have really understood and refined this power feels hard to believe. Obviously, I am not trying to criticize any of you or your beliefs as I am one of you and probably share many of your beliefs, but this question still bothers me. I am hoping for some perspectives on this. would be really appreciated.
love
nickel77

Of course that is hard to believe . Why did you think that was a valid belief in the first place ?

For example I been practicing some of the things you mention for over 40 years .... yet I only just joined a 'magical ' forum ( this one ) recently .

 

[Thee Nightfool]

"Magic" is only obscure in areas colonized by the post-Scientific Enlightenment ideas, spread by Anglo-Saxon school system. Lotta good stuff there, but on the magic front it was a disaster For 80% of the rest of people on the planet, for the rest of us, "magic" is just the default worldview.

Yes, modern-day Thailand is a great example of this. A perfect little hodge-podge of Hinyana/Theravada Buddhist societal standards mixed with a heavy dose of indegenous folk-magical heritage that has never been stamped out (mostly because Buddhist societies integrate far better with indegenous spiritual views, Tibet and its Vajrayana theocracy being yet another fantastic example of this).

 

[AlfrunGrima]

Of course that is hard to believe . Why did you think that was a valid belief in the first place ?

For example I been practicing some of the things you mention for over 40 years .... yet I only just joined a 'magical ' forum ( this one ) recently .

I recognize that. Joined a few years ago, never was on the internet before although practicing for decades. Before that in 1999 or 2000 was the last time I talked about magic with other people. It is not something that in general comes to the mind as a subject to talk about for people.

I agree with Morgan that post-scientific enlightment changed the thinking of the anglo-saxon part of the world. That lineair thinking kills magical thinking before it is even possible to bear fruit.

 

[frater_pan]

"Magic" is only obscure in areas colonized by the post-Scientific Enlightenment ideas, spread by Anglo-Saxon school system. Lotta good stuff there, but on the magic front it was a disaster For 80% of the rest of people on the planet, for the rest of us, "magic" is just the default worldview.

Not recruiting here, but For English speaker, or those taking cues from English speaking magic systems, to find "magic" in this mostly Catholic hemisphere, you have to expand a little from the practices of white people. Look for what is called "miracles" over here, then you'll learn to recognize it more.

I'll buy that to a certain extent but in several so-called "white dominated" areas there is still the survival of folk magick. This is passed down through stories and almost always interpreted in a kind of Christian context, even though the dominant Christian context in these areas are forms of fundamentalism (this isn't true everywhere through). Then there is also folk magick in Asian-America areas and kids talk about this stuff all the time.

Thus there are degrees of transmission and initiation in society, even if it is more subdued.

 

[Sedim Haba]

I always believed magick was real but...

This is true. My great uncle on my mother's side was one of the many assistants for Houdini. How long, family lore don't say.

(Houdini in his later years tried hard to debunk the seance charlatans, and succeeded. But, he was still a believer, in a way)

My Grandfather, who taught me far more than my father (who admittedly was out earning a living) tried to teach me some magic.

Simple stuff. Card tricks, slight of hand. I was not good at it. No dexterity, stubby fat fingers (how I played guitar was sheer willpower I think)

I was into all the 'cool' occult stuff in the '70's. Bought a tarot deck, read books, tried my hand at many things. Failed just like with card tricks.

I just assumed I was too inept, that others could 'do it' and I could not, and that was it. Too Hard.

Well, I still think this way, sorta. But, I have help now. A great helper. The greatest Magick? Transformation.

 

[Firetree]

I recognize that. Joined a few years ago, never was on the internet before although practicing for decades. Before that in 1999 or 2000 was the last time I talked about magic with other people. It is not something that in general comes to the mind as a subject to talk about for people.

I agree with Morgan that post-scientific enlightment changed the thinking of the anglo-saxon part of the world. That lineair thinking kills magical thinking before it is even possible to bear fruit.

Indeed . I think its a subject well worth looking into . The best I found on it is a book that I cant remember the title or author of ... damn !
It may come as I write . A main observation in that and many others is the shift from a three part reality to a two part reality ; the real and the ideal ; everything is either real material soild or a concept meantal idea philosophy (ideal ) . Anything else is wrong , imagined or a fault in the perceptive mechanism .

That has started to change in .... Herbert Butterfield ! ( Ha .... memory ! ) .... in recent decades . >

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by Herbert Butterfield.


even if one just reads the first 4 chapters .... very illuminating !

here is a freebie ;

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[AlfrunGrima]

Indeed . I think its a subject well worth looking into . The best I found on it is a book that I cant remember the title or author of ... damn !
It may come as I write . A main observation in that and many others is the shift from a three part reality to a two part reality ; the real and the ideal ; everything is either real material soild or a concept meantal idea philosophy (ideal ) . Anything else is wrong , imagined or a fault in the perceptive mechanism .

That has started to change in .... Herbert Butterfield ! ( Ha .... memory ! ) .... in recent decades . >

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

by Herbert Butterfield.


even if one just reads the first 4 chapters .... very illuminating !

here is a freebie ;

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Thank you for sharing this good read!

 

[MorganBlack]

modern-day Thailand is a great example of this

Totally! Check out Jenx at Thai Occult. I keep meaning to get a ghost buddy, but then I think, aw man, then I'd have more work keeping up another relationship.

Agreed to the above. In the US there are holdouts from what is often called the "Disenchantment of the World" - such as in Applachia.
(See:

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)

And while I also have a great love for British Protestant-to-Secular culture, for itself and as a form of magic to make things not happen, and the distance it give us to turn everything off, they are not the people who held onto their "superstitions" here. America is really 11 countries, all with different origin stories, and so often very different worldviews.

This is a much better lens for our politics than Red Vs. Blue btw. See historian Colin Woodard’s 2011 book, American Nations: A History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures of North America.
(See:

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)

In Applachia they were the Northern British / Southern Scottish "Borderers" who were kicked out of Britain at the time of James I. They pretty much hate - let’s call them - upper-class British society, which is a sentiment maintained here in their Southern US politics. Some were sent to the States where they became the elite-distrusting and government-distrusting "Southerners."

I am not referring to the Deep South, which has its origins with Barbadian slave lords, but Appalachia. Because of their history, they only later formed an alliance with the Deep South to keep the meddling New Englanders contained. As thr New England mindset is always want to do to everyone is to "fix" them, along with their "superstitions" and backwardness.

The British elite often feel they are backward barbarians - a sentiment they also hold toward "superstitious" Catholics, Latinos, or anyone who maintains an indigenous worldview, including animist (spirit) magic - which is obviously an impossible thing becasue spirits don't exist, so all those throwbacks must be must be suffering from a brain disorder, lack of proper British education (something which I actually love, btw) , or some other congenital defect.

 

[Mira Malverick]

Hi! I've been in these spaces for a few months now, working with a few angels, demons, and sigils with some quite amazing results and some failures (sorta 50/50). I've had plenty of very revealing and supernatural tarot readings, channeled messages and general synchronicities. However, sometimes, especially when I'm having some failures, I still have some doubts and the biggest one is probably the title. Yes, I understand the nature of the occult is that it's occult. Yes, I am familiar with "To Know, To Will, To Dare, To Keep Silent" (love it). Yes, I am familiar with the fact that many religious and superstitious rituals are a form of magick. However, to believe and invest in the idea that I have this supernatural power that most people do not know of or use and that the people I meet in the forums like these are the only people who have really understood and refined this power feels hard to believe. Obviously, I am not trying to criticize any of you or your beliefs as I am one of you and probably share many of your beliefs, but this question still bothers me. I am hoping for some perspectives on this. would be really appreciated.
love
nickel77

If i had to guess, the enlightnement and materialism that came to orient the modern era are to blame, and because science is the religion of truth people worship nowadays, something science cannot prove or measure like magic would naturally fall into obscurity.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

If i had to guess, the enlightnement and materialism that came to orient the modern era are to blame, and because science is the religion of truth people worship nowadays, something science cannot prove or measure like magic would naturally fall into obscurity.

IMO, just because it can't be 'proved' in the way maths can be proved, or measured in the way a stick can be measured, it doesn't mean you can't have an explanation that is compatible with physics. Science is about explanations.

Also, anyone worshipping science as truth is not doing science. Science is about doubt.

So, science is about explanation, doubt, and a fanatical devotion to the Pope - oh wait I've got confused with the Spanish Inquisition...

 

[astralurosr]

Hi! I've been in these spaces for a few months now, working with a few angels, demons, and sigils with some quite amazing results and some failures (sorta 50/50). I've had plenty of very revealing and supernatural tarot readings, channeled messages and general synchronicities. However, sometimes, especially when I'm having some failures, I still have some doubts and the biggest one is probably the title. Yes, I understand the nature of the occult is that it's occult. Yes, I am familiar with "To Know, To Will, To Dare, To Keep Silent" (love it). Yes, I am familiar with the fact that many religious and superstitious rituals are a form of magick. However, to believe and invest in the idea that I have this supernatural power that most people do not know of or use and that the people I meet in the forums like these are the only people who have really understood and refined this power feels hard to believe. Obviously, I am not trying to criticize any of you or your beliefs as I am one of you and probably share many of your beliefs, but this question still bothers me. I am hoping for some perspectives on this. would be really appreciated.
love
nickel77

Here is a clean, grounded, non-ego answer you can post. It avoids mystification, avoids superiority complexes, and explains why this is not obscure at all and how it works mechanically:


---

What you’re running into isn’t a flaw in your thinking — it’s actually a healthy correction.

The biggest misunderstanding people fall into early on is assuming that occult work implies special powers, special people, or secret access. That framing feels intoxicating, but it’s also the fastest way to destabilize practice and inflate doubt when results fluctuate.

Here’s the sober reality:

1. None of this is obscure or exclusive

Occult simply means not immediately obvious, not hidden from humanity. The principles behind ritual, symbolism, intention, belief, and altered states of attention are universal human mechanics. They appear everywhere:

Religion

Therapy

Advertising

Art and music

Placebo/nocebo effects

Meditation and visualization

Military conditioning

Cultural myths and archetypes


Most people use these mechanisms unconsciously. Occult practice is just using them deliberately.

You’re not tapping into something “others don’t have.”
You’re learning to operate systems most people never examine.

2. The universe behaves mechanically, not magically

Nothing here violates structure or causality.

Think in terms of systems, not spirits first:

Attention directs perception

Perception shapes meaning

Meaning alters emotional state

Emotional state changes behavior

Behavior feeds back into probability and outcome


Ritual, sigils, entities, tarot — these are interfaces, not sources. They are structured ways to reorganize internal state and synchronize it with external conditions.

When results happen, it’s not because a hidden elite power was activated.
It’s because conditions aligned.

When results fail, it’s not because the system is fake — it’s because the inputs didn’t coherently reinforce each other.

That 50/50 success rate you mentioned?
That’s exactly what early system interaction looks like.

3. Angels, demons, and symbols are functional models

Whether you interpret them as external intelligences, archetypal forces, psychological constructs, or informational patterns doesn’t actually matter at first.

What matters is that they:

Organize intention

Stabilize focus

Provide symbolic leverage

Create feedback loops for the subconscious


They are tools, not proof of personal exceptionalism.

The moment someone believes “I have something others don’t”, practice degrades. The moment someone understands “I’m learning how reality already behaves”, practice stabilizes.

4. Doubt is not an enemy — it’s a regulator

Doubt appears when the mind detects narrative inflation.

It’s not telling you “this is fake.”
It’s telling you “drop the myth layer and refine the mechanism.”

The most effective practitioners aren’t believers or skeptics — they are engineers of experience. They test, observe, adjust, and discard explanations that add ego instead of clarity.

5. Silence isn’t about secrecy — it’s about signal integrity

“To Know, To Will, To Dare, To Keep Silent” isn’t mystical elitism.

Silence preserves:

Focus

Coherence

Internal feedback

Protection from narrative contamination


Talking too much externalizes the process before it stabilizes.

In short

You don’t possess a supernatural power.
Neither does anyone else.

You’re learning how attention, meaning, belief, and structure interact inside a lawful universe.

Nothing mystical about that — just poorly explained for a long time.

Your doubts don’t mean you’re failing.
They mean you’re shedding unnecessary mythology and moving toward real understanding.

That’s progress.