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If you could date someone from history...

Zackalope

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I would have to say Artemisia Of Caria was probably one of the baddest bitches to ever do it. After her husband died she took his title, amassed an army, and then joined Persia in it's sacking and overthrowing of ancient Greece. Not only was she said to have been rather beautiful, she was one of the shrewdest tacticians the Persian empire had ever known. On one particular occasion, all of Xerxes generals were convinced that they should chase the fleeing Greek forces into open waters, Artemisia, knowing her people and abhorring stupidity, was bold enough to challenge them all openly. When the decision did not go in her favor, she even took Xerxes aside and attempted to reason with him stating that the altercation was pointless, and they would surely lose. Well, she was absolutely right but did her duty and then some, she even managed to gain further honor in Xerxes' eyes for having crashed a Greek vessel and forcing another to run over their newly shipwrecked allies. She was so talented in the arts of war that Xerxes was once recorded saying of her, "My men have turned into women, and my women into men”. Her name was on the lips of all of ancient Greece who both admired her for her undeniable prowess and demonized her as a lowly thief and pirate
 

Xenophon

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Fascinating character, though I'd have to phrase that as Persia's "attempted overthrowing." The invasion eventually failed.

I suppose an ideal date with her would be what? A demolition derby?
 

Zackalope

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Fascinating character, though I'd have to phrase that as Persia's "attempted overthrowing." The invasion eventually failed.

I suppose an ideal date with her would be what? A demolition derby?
OOh that's a good one, I was more thinking along the lines of a little hatchet throwing and beer followed up by some sort of live show, either punk or thrash metal, then round it out with a nice late night dinner in the city at some hole in the wall middle eastern restaurant that smells like cloves and hukkah smoke. If the crowd got a little rough at the show, I could easily count on her to stand back to back swinging into oblivion.
 

Xenophon

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This thread needs a bump. Odd that no one mentioned Marie Leveau. For that matter, none of the babes of Salem either: Tituba, Sarah Good, Liz Howe, nonna 'em.
 

stalkinghyena

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I'm descended from the Townes, yo. So hands off the Sisters. And Susannah Martin too.

At work I was listening to an audiobook section that mentioned Joanna the Mad of Castille (Juana la Loca). Thought that for a date I could walk beside her disguised as a Franciscan friar during her "weird processions" through the Spanish villages in countryside as she displayed the body of her husband, Phillip of the Hapsburgs.
I'd ask her how she's doing and she'd be like, "I know you are from the future. Roma said you would come."
I'd act confused, and apologize for not understanding.
And she'd look at me with hollowed out eyes and say, "You have an octopus on your head."
 
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Xenophon

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I'm descended from the Townes, yo. So hands off the Sisters. And Susannah Martin too.

At work I was listening to an audiobook section that mentioned Joanna the Mad of Castille (Juana la Loca). Thought that for a date I could walk beside her disguised as a Franciscan friar during her "weird processions" through the Spanish villages in countryside as she displayed the body of her husband, Phillip of the Hapsburgs.
I'd ask her how she's doing and she'd be like, "I know you are from the future. Roma said you would come."
I'd act confused, and apologize for not understanding.
And she'd look at me with hollowed out eyes and say, "You have an octopus on your head."
Never a dull moment, I see.

Actually I was once enamored of a lass whose people thought an ancestor's name meant that the ancestor lived again (in some wise) through the one bearing the name. Her Christian dad was modernized so he didn't much care about that. Her mom was a Japanese immigrant and never even knew about it. Somewhere along the way, the little girl wound up living with gramma and grampa in the sticks who very much kept up old ways. And the kid was named "Christine." As in you-know-who. Given the creepy doings of the dysfunctional community and the kid developed some emotional problems. Soooo, she decides she must really be Hisself returned to Earth as herself. Years later, I was slow on the uptake and it took a couple of months before I realized her jokes about Divine Personhood were 100% in dead earnest. By time all was over, I was yearning for the staid simplicity of a Juana de Loca in any other locale.
 

stalkinghyena

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Soooo, she decides she must really be Hisself returned to Earth as herself.
As to the appeals of ancestry I see it's common function of bolstering modern identity and shrug. For me it is an opening to the story that happened fueled by a touch of sympathy - not to say that this attitude does not mean some astral shade is looking over my shoulder now. It just so happens that yesterday morning I was listening to Sledge discuss the book used by Grand Jurors in the SWT. He mentioned sitting in the ruined basement of the Parris house, contemplating the horrors of that time.
In place of identification and bemoaning an old injustice, I myself had stood in Rebecca Nurse's house and saw the prongs on a support beam and asked, "Where's the musket?" I learn from the curator, expressed with the Massachusettsian discomfort towards guns (that is, until they are holding one), that it is out for "renovation". She also expressed a justification - the old woman needed the musket to defend against the neighbor's pigs that often tore up her garden. More reasons arose, of course - this is frontier life after all. So, pork for supper, she gets labeled a "witch" by the neighbor, just as her mother (Joanna Blessing) had over a property dispute with the Carr family in the 30's. This some time before the writhings of Abigail and Betty and the capitulations of Tituba.

Ah, but Tituba for a date? I leaning towards the theory that she was a Venezuelan Indian, though most depictions of her as being of Caribbean-African ancestry have a modern sympathetic appeal. I also think that the reason she was not hanged is because, regardless of her supposed complicity via forced testimony, she was property. There's so much distortion there, so I can't blame people for going with what they (think they) know, and I will even forgive HPL's use of the SWT as a plot device. I don't recall him mentioning Tituba, but it's been a while.

If I had to choose who to date from the SWT, I'd try Mary Warren - her ping pong ball existence in that time must have been quite bewildering. To be both accuser and accused, caught up in the "Heathers" fad (if you recall that movie) one moment only be beaten into her sense by the Proctors. Then to face a wall of predetermined judgements from the magistrates and collapse into confession, though spared as a head spinning tool of further testimony. Not as bad a case as Tituba, but at least I can imagine that the slave could still tell which way was up and which way was down. Last I read, though probably suspect, Mary remained "afflicted" for the rest of her life.

But for Joanna (Juana) I poke and find that madness is...disputed. Interesting, so I then question whether anecdotes are shadows of the machinations of a clever princess in some drama tinged with touch of Poe. Maybe someone will make a movie and put it on Netflix - though I doubt history will be respected. The Borgias show I cited in the Caterina Sforza post was an entertaining mutilation. There was another interpretation which was more brutal, like Game of Thrones, but the mixed accents of the international cast was hard to follow - Alexander VI with an American accent but Lucrezia clearly German.
 

Xenophon

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You mention Tituba escaped the noose since she was property. Now that would be an historical irony: guaranteeing what gets called "human rights" by a return to serfdom. "You can't abuse me---I'm under new ownership!" There would be a built-in incentive to literally make oneself useful. Come to think on it, there's nothing all that novel in all this. H.L. Mencken was grousing along similar lines about a century ago.
 

stalkinghyena

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I said I was leaning, but you assume Tituba had any volition other than telling people what they wanted to hear?
Someone could have bought her for the sake of hanging her - she was still a "witch" herself after all.

H.L. Mencken
For your fetishes you get to date Xanthippe.

Socrates_and_Xanthippe.jpg
 

Xenophon

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I said I was leaning, but you assume Tituba had any volition other than telling people what they wanted to hear?
Someone could have bought her for the sake of hanging her - she was still a "witch" herself after all.


For your fetishes you get to date Xanthippe.

Socrates_and_Xanthippe.jpg
Actually I dislike Mencken heartily. The alternative to what he rightly deplores as "homo boobens" was (and is) scarcely his "smart set," to evoke the execrable title of one of his publishing ventures. Like a great many, he seems to have confused finding Nietzsche an entertaining read with the reader's own nobility of spirit. (Me? I try hard to avoid becoming a "mensch," but I know damned well I ain't nohows "ueber--")
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Actually I dislike Mencken heartily. The alternative to what he rightly deplores as "homo boobens" was (and is) scarcely his "smart set," to evoke the execrable title of one of his publishing ventures. Like a great many, he seems to have confused finding Nietzsche an entertaining read with the reader's own nobility of spirit. (Me? I try hard to avoid becoming a "mensch," but I know damned well I ain't nohows "ueber--")
Where did I say anything about Tituba's volition? I said she "escaped the noose." Typically that locution means simply that a person was not hanged. As, to use a parallel type of phrase, "in the plane wreck, he escaped death." He, in fact, did nothing. He just sat there and let fate and seating arrangements do the rest. (As an aside, I've been questioned by authorities on three continents: "free" or chattel, one always tells questioners what they want to hear.)
 

Xenophon

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Maybe I'm overthiking this, but the mention of human chattel opens up some interesting vistas. I have a female relative who has had trouble holding onto the various loves of her life. It might be good therapy to ask her, "Really, Sis. If Handsome Jack there had been yours to sell, how much longer would you have held onto him? Really?" The notion can foster closure or whatever is healthy this week.
 

stalkinghyena

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Yes, of course, many vistas. But these must remain framed in the prison cell window of the dating context.

So what would a date with Tituba look like? Following her chores in the freezing Parris household while Reverend Samuel self righteously complains about his hostile parishioners. Mrs. Parris asks aloud when they are going to get the firewood the village council promised while Tituba is mindful of how many logs she places on the fire. The stack of wood outside is shrinking and Mr. Parris huffs they'll be lucky to survive to spring thanks to those ingrates running the Village. And would Tituba be mindful of those goddamned logs? And where is her husband at?
Tituba nods and shrugs, mumbling that John is outside stacking what's left of the firewood. Her nerves are sparked when she sees young Betty, who stares off into Lovecraftian Outer Space at spectral horrors waiting to formulate when the local doctor ultimately declares she is "under an evil hand".
 

theil

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This thread, being active, keeps me thinking who would I date from the past. Still can't think of anyone I would want to date, be physically intimate with that had historic significance. Other than that, there's one porn star from the 1980s that would have been fun to date and there was a certain UK skinhead that was hot as hell... Wouldn't agree on politics or racism nor about bullying people around...
 

Xenophon

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This thread, being active, keeps me thinking who would I date from the past. Still can't think of anyone I would want to date, be physically intimate with that had historic significance. Other than that, there's one porn star from the 1980s that would have been fun to date and there was a certain UK skinhead that was hot as hell... Wouldn't agree on politics or racism nor about bullying people around...
All that clash of values might serve as an erotic dynamo.
 

Wintruz

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Who would it be? Using Max Heindel's "magic carpet of the imagination", I conceive of Time Travel Match.com - no self survey needed, just pick one and spin the dial.

My pick?

"La Tigre"
If the real Cesare Borgia looked anything close to Francois Arnaud in that series of The Borgias then I am ready to settle down. Otherwise, I'm going with
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Are we allowed fictional historical people? If so, Ophelia would be high on my list.

'I can barely conceive of a type of beauty in which there is no Melancholy ~ Charles Baudelaire
 

Xenophon

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If the real Cesare Borgia looked anything close to Francois Arnaud in that series of The Borgias then I am ready to settle down. Otherwise, I'm going with
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Are we allowed fictional historical people? If so, Ophelia would be high on my list.
Why her? She has her moments, but then she gets all self-destructive. A high-maintenance type. Still that can be, I dunno, enticing. I worked with a lass who was forever threatening to collect my nail parings and hex me. I, of course, was horribly smitten by her toxin.
 

Wintruz

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Why her? She has her moments, but then she gets all self-destructive. A high-maintenance type. Still that can be, I dunno, enticing. I worked with a lass who was forever threatening to collect my nail parings and hex me. I, of course, was horribly smitten by her toxin.
She appeals to my Pre-Raphaelite sensibilities. All flowing hair in rivers and Culpepper's flower symbolism.

I'm suddenly reminded of Edgar Allan Poe falling into raptures as he watched a gorgeous consumptive playing piano, before a drop of blood falls from her mouth, onto the white piano keys.
 

Xenophon

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She appeals to my Pre-Raphaelite sensibilities. All flowing hair in rivers and Culpepper's flower symbolism.

I'm suddenly reminded of Edgar Allan Poe falling into raptures as he watched a gorgeous consumptive playing piano, before a drop of blood falls from her mouth, onto the white piano keys.
Yeah, I remember a painting of her with a nice hair-in-water effect. I think they worked the scene into the movie with Lawrence Olivier too. Dang. She got a friend?

The Poe tableau there is oddly attractive. Certainly more so than, say, if a cute fiddle player in the Lost Gonzo Band was to let a gob of Copenhagen 'baccy dribble down her tee front in middle of "London Homesick Blues." Why is that I wunner?
 

stalkinghyena

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Are we allowed fictional historical people? If so, Ophelia would be high on my list.
I don't see why not, especially since many historical figures can be wrapped in fiction, or legend...
I'll take a shot a Photis from The Golden Ass - we can "sacrifice to Venus" together and then I can watch her Mistress change into a bird. Then I can bully Photis into giving me the powder so I can do it too, and then go braying off into the night, wondering if she gave me the wrong stuff on purpose.
 

Mannimarco

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Enheduanna. If anyone could help me sort out my relationship with Inanna, it would be her. And the s*x magick should be off the charts.
 
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