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Fraud or no, the content of Don Juan Matus' directives concerning the way to live as a warrior, and the pre-eminent Sorcerers' Explanation are beyond reproach if one has the personal power to become a man of knowledge. Having passed through the great cycle of taoist spiritual alchemy of the Complete Reality school, I can vouch for that (Don Juan's Toltec Nagual shamanic teaching), as well as that which figures most prominently for those seeking to arrive at the body outside of the body (taoism).
lol he was a fucking cult leader. And him and his group fleeced people of money teaching that worthless tensegrity crap ie
At Tensegrity seminars, women dressed in black, the “chacmools,” demonstrated moves for the audience. Castaneda and the witches would speak and answer questions. Seminars cost up to $1,200, and as many as 800 would attend. Participants could buy T-shirts that read “Self Importance Kills — Do Tensegrity.” The movements were meant to promote health as well as help practitioners progress as warriors. Illness was seen as a sign of weakness. Wallace recalls the case of Tycho, the Orange Scout (supposedly the Blue Scout’s sister). “She had ulcerative colitis,” Wallace told me. “She was trying to keep it a secret because if Carlos knew you were sick he’d punish you. If you went for medical care, he’d kick you out.” Once Tycho’s illness was discovered, Wallace said, Tycho was expelled from the group.
lol kicking people out for being sick, and then he gets ill
lol he made shit up. The Yaqui don't even use Peyote. Don Juan was imaginary. You do realize there are people who make it their life's work to look into such things?
He lifted shit from various sources (like a tai chi teacher) and (creatively) fused it into a package to sell to the public. His cultish followers were shocked when he was diagnosed with Cancer and then some of them even killed themselves.
It's a dead path if one is interested in immortality.
I believe the Castaneda book series is certainly worth reading, and quite interesting. I read them over and over for many years, made notes, studied, and then moved on after I was satisfied.
I have also read many of the books written by Atkinson, which many people here have likely read and studied without knowing they are written by Atkinson. Most of them do contain worthwhile materials, fake poser plagiarist or not.
I agree. Books are on the basic worth reading. Though I did not read Castaneda, books, only few short texts, that gave me nothing. Mikal being spinoff from Castaneda sounds based, I know enough of Castaneda to agree with that.
The craze around Castaneda and craze about Matrix feel damn related. Not that Matrix made a lot of sense. It didn't. Maybe the craze around Matrix grew from Castaneda craze, because it was easy to make it seem as a proof of Castaneda's teaching actually working. Calling it cult feels just right.
What remains to be figured out is actual positive use of the texts that people created, Be it Castaneda, or his students and spinoffs.
This is something I definitely dd not know and definitely a crucial information! Thanks!
The debate here about Castaneda is bearing quite a value, I see. And it's quite related. Glad to learn.
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I agree. Books are on the basic worth reading. Though I did not read Castaneda, books, only few short texts, that gave me nothing. Mikal being spinoff from Castaneda sounds based, I know enough of Castaneda to agree with that.
The craze around Castaneda and craze about Matrix feel damn related. Not that Matrix made a lot of sense. It didn't. Maybe the craze around Matrix grew from Castaneda craze, because it was easy to make it seem as a proof of Castaneda's teaching actually working. Calling it cult feels just right.
What remains to be figured out is actual positive use of the texts that people created, Be it Castaneda, or his students and spinoffs.
Ok, this isn't a Castaneda thread but I remember distinctly that 'cheating death' involved somehow escaping the Eagle and that Don Juan & others ended up by accident trapped in a realm where they didn't plan to be. Or something in that manner.
Which inspired me to ask the following question: which realm/plan do you plan to be immortal in? If you roamed the same earth as us mortals, you'd be something of a ghost, an incorporeal incapable of interacting with the living. Or is there a realm for beings made up entirely of energy? Or one inhabited exclusively by you and no one else? How would such a way of existing transform your mind?
Ok, this isn't a Castaneda thread but I remember distinctly that 'cheating death' involved somehow escaping the Eagle and that Don Juan & others ended up by accident trapped in a realm where they didn't plan to be. Or something in that manner.
Which inspired me to ask the following question: which realm/plan do you plan to be immortal in? If you roamed the same earth as us mortals, you'd be something of a ghost, an incorporeal incapable of interacting with the living. Or is there a realm for beings made up entirely of energy? Or one inhabited exclusively by you and no one else? How would such a way of existing transform your mind?
So far I have no answer for it. Freedom is the point for me. But where to go, I cannot tell, simply because my understanding of reality ends in Astral realm. I've read multiple theories on how reality is designed or whatever, but experience and being there is what matters to me, I had out of body experiences, lucid dreaming and such, which confirmed to me mental and astral realms. Never got beyond that. I didn't even experience astral too much.
This all makes not just logical but Natural sense too.
I think if we study all religions and systems of magick in a syncretic way, we can take a lot of commonalities as being at least the kernel of the Truth.
Method of Science. Aim of Religion. As the motto goes.
Highlighting a path for others to achieve K&C is an aim of my work. Your favourable estimation of my short summary is very encouraging to read. Not that my path has to be or even could be followed. It's given to help others orient themselves to cut their own path.
This hylozoic model is a product of trying to understand my experience with the HGA and convey it as part of developing a school of thought for Exempt Adept work. My previous model was conventional demiurge neo-Platonic transcendent with early ideas of the new model incorporated in it as panpsychism. It can been seen now as a transitory phase as the new replaced the old to open of the way for K&C, then afterward deconstruction and full reattribution to align with Nature after the Experience and study.
One event leading up to K&C that involved having a strong energetic body and experience with it was when a pair of hostile magicians evoked me into their triangle. Unexpected and disorienting as it immediately was, it directly gave a different perspective on the world that I was able to adapt to, relatively calmly, and very quickly from previous experience.
Processing that experience in the following months helped a little bit(just enough) with adapting to the disorientation experienced during the hyperphysical of the Beatific Vision aspect about a year later to keep me better grounded to this world. Where time becomes space... on the journey to the Graal.
This sentence, right there, is my mantra for 50 years and counting. My version is perhaps a bit different, but I believe we speak the same language. What can I actually do, or accomplish, and what works for me?
There are a ton of people writing books or blogs that have never actually experienced anything, or anything they are writing about. Another ton of people find sources and resources, and recombine them, write them down, but still have never experienced any of it. Another ton of people who entertain delusions and fantasies, full of wishful thinking, that popularize bad sources and follow cults down rabbit holes. Another ton of people who have experienced a few things but can't repeat them or control them on demand.
Usually, the only way we can find out what we can actually do, accomplish, or what works is to try it out. Practice practice practice. Then we often become very humble about our own discovered limitations, but keep trying, and keep an open mind, and keep learning.
I like to find what I call "loose connectivity" between things, and then I dive in and see if the subjects are the same thing being described or taught from different angles or views. And many times, like with Atkinson or Castaneda, they are simply repeating something they found or read somewhere else, or making shit up. That somewhere else source may have copied it from somewhere else, and so on. But somewhere down that rabbit hole, somebody likely figured something out and shared a real truth, even if it was their own truth and not applicable in that format to everyone. Religions are often in this category. A subjective but profound experience, shared with others who wish for that profound experience and try for thousands of years to replicate it, usually failing because they are missing the rest of the story, the background, or some important details.
I feel like I am already immortal, but I choose mortality for the food, sex, and other things my immortality is not capable of, because immortality is not physical. I am still immortal, but the process of coming here and living is also a process that disconnects the immortal mind so that I can live and enjoy, or suffer, since all of life is better than the boring condition of the ethereal existence. That is a belief, not something I can prove, just how I feel and what makes me who I am. I suppose reincarnation ideas likely support this, and NDE experiences. But it is interesting that I'm not a fan of either of those in their current descriptions, or how people try to make reincarnation seem like a forced process, or what the reasons for that process are. To me, there is no karma involved, or any real rhyme or reason except that I want to be here and live as a physical being.
I suppose that it is nature of becoming advanced practicioner that yous top looking for a system and instead look for ways to enhance or improve your system, finding out what is right and what is wrong, but no longer hoping to find a perfect system from hand of someone else. Perfect system doesn't exist anyway.
I feel like I am already immortal, but I choose mortality for the food, sex, and other things my immortality is not capable of, because immortality is not physical. I am still immortal, but the process of coming here and living is also a process that disconnects the immortal mind so that I can live and enjoy, or suffer, since all of life is better than the boring condition of the ethereal existence. That is a belief, not something I can prove, just how I feel and what makes me who I am. I suppose reincarnation ideas likely support this, and NDE experiences. But it is interesting that I'm not a fan of either of those in their current descriptions, or how people try to make reincarnation seem like a forced process, or what the reasons for that process are. To me, there is no karma involved, or any real rhyme or reason except that I want to be here and live as a physical being.
Is this feeling like sensing, or is that some sort of knowing that? How do you know? Do you asume then, that trying to get immortality by building energetic body through any method is a dead end?
I suppose that it is nature of becoming advanced practicioner that yous top looking for a system and instead look for ways to enhance or improve your system, finding out what is right and what is wrong, but no longer hoping to find a perfect system from hand of someone else. Perfect system doesn't exist anyway.
Is this feeling like sensing, or is that some sort of knowing that? How do you know? Do you asume then, that trying to get immortality by building energetic body through any method is a dead end?
Yes, a knowing, with a total lack of fear of death or dying. I come into contact with some other forms of myself at times, and I also sense that these parts of myself find me annoying, lol. I also remember some things that feel and seem like current life memories, but that is not possible, and some of those are dying. Those could be information from other sources, and not my own memories, but they feel like mine. So, I don't fret and I don't worry, my belief is pretty strong, and backed by my dream world experiences, and other aspects of self. The other aspects of self format is when I have more complete memories and access to things that are beyond my abilities when awake. When I am allowed to participate, I share in some of the memories and knowledge, and bring some of it back to my waking mind, usually in a very confusing format that I have to meditate and ponder on for some time. I am usually like a silent observer, witnessing things, but not allowed to intervene or steer with my own intent. Yet, this still feels like me, but a no-nonsense version with other interests. These memory layers are there, thousands of lives deep, nothing is lost.
I do not think that building an energetic body is a bad idea. If it works, it would be a great accomplishment, and an alternative to dying over and over. I would hope that this form could participate in regular activities?
I assume you are talking about a different format of energy body, other than the one we have and use?
Through experience, not assumption. If someone tells you that this is how they achieve immortality, they probably don’t understand much about energetic bodies. And creating an energetic body makes them feel godlike, so that’s what they end up telling you.
Working with the created (relative to the person) is a dead-end.
Basically, there are two kinds of bodies outside the body. One kind is psychologically projected and requires a host body~ your own until it wears out, then you must "borrow" what is available as the "host" is born, then dies.
Otherwise, the kind worthy of one's spiritual potential is nonpsychological, that is, nonoriginated. That which is Unborn (uncreated), based on selfless awareness is already thus, nevertheless, one must arrive at such a state by stealing creation's potential over a long period of time, that is, seeing it (by not using psychological awareness) in the midst of ordinary situations. The light is one. How one uses the light (awareness) either relative to the person, or else relative to the light itself, is what "stealing" amounts to. Over the course of many years, one accrues enough potential (freeing it from the karmic matrix), then eventually, one naturally assumes the body beyond the body, which is immortal (nonoriginated).
Even in the aftermath of the unmistakable event, it is necessary to stabilize consciousness and continue "stealing" potential, same as before. In either context, one becomes a ghoul or else one becomes expressive of the selfless potential of enlightening intent.
Creation itself provides the opportunities to "refresh" enlightening potential in the course of natural karmic evolution. Karma is all there is to work with. It has already provided you with the body. One either follows the light of creation and goes along with birth and death, or else, one turns the light around to shine on its source. The light is one. The immaterial body of awareness has no location.
Well, existing without physical body definitely requires energetic body that is different and doesn't demand physical part for survival and well-being.
Working with the created (relative to the person) is a dead-end.
Basically, there are two kinds of bodies outside the body. One kind is psychologically projected and requires a host body~ your own until it wears out, then you must "borrow" what is available as the "host" is born, then dies.
Otherwise, the kind worthy of one's spiritual potential is nonpsychological, that is, nonoriginated. That which is Unborn (uncreated), based on selfless awareness is already thus, nevertheless, one must arrive at such a state by stealing creation's potential over a long period of time, that is, seeing it (by not using psychological awareness) in the midst of ordinary situations. The light is one. How one uses the light (awareness) either relative to the person, or else relative to the light itself, is what "stealing" amounts to. Over the course of many years, one accrues enough potential (freeing it from the karmic matrix), then eventually, one naturally assumes the body beyond the body, which is immortal (nonoriginated).
Even in the aftermath of the unmistakable event, it is necessary to stabilize consciousness and continue "stealing" potential, same as before. In either context, one becomes a ghoul or else one becomes expressive of the selfless potential of enlightening intent.
Creation itself provides the opportunities to "refresh" enlightening potential in the course of natural karmic evolution. Karma is all there is to work with. It has already provided you with the body. One either follows the light of creation and goes along with birth and death, or else, one turns the light around to shine on its source. The light is one. The immaterial body of awareness has no location.
Immortalism is not within the confines of rational intellectualism (psychological functionality) of the being that is going to die.
Those who want to toy with immortalism and can do nothing more than opine relative to half-ass narratives that DON'T matter are simply cloying their own ability to see reality.
Complicated talk is complicated for YOU.
It is necessary to tune oneself to the warriors way in order to drop the bullshit oncer and for all. Is that a big Huh, mr Durward?
As for immortality and arriving at its essential nature and application, it is an unequivocal fact that the warriors way is the foundational construct without which shaman initiates are inexorably shipwrecked in the immensity of eternity. That is straight from Don Juan Matus, the teachings of which made Carlos Castañeda such a target for conspiracies of "fraud."
What is the point you are contributing to the clarification and study of immortalism, mr Durward— other than complaining about unnecessarily complicated verbiage relative to inconceivability?
If you don't see potential, it is because you don't know potential. Potential is already nonorigination. The Unborn is deathless. What do you think immortality consists of? If you can't work with nonorigination, you are not practicing it. If you are not practicing nonorigination, how are you going to arrive at its power, hmmmmmm?
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Morell wrote:
Well, existing without physical body definitely requires energetic body that is different and doesn't demand physical part for survival and well-being.
It does in fact require a physical host body to remain. Human being, IS awareness. The energetic body IS awareness. Human being, being awareness, isn't another model just because of a temporary absence relative to knowing how to separate from the physical host.
Human being is not automatically relegated to "inorganic being" status on account of attaining a created energy body.
The point that mr Durward gave up on is that the energy body is created and the body outside the body spoken of by spiritual immortalists, is not created. Why? Working with the psychological, one's accomplishment is created. What's that? If such activity is relative to the person, any result is relative to birth and death. That's Not immortality. Whereas working with potential (by seeing it) the resultant achievement is already nonoriginated. THAT's immortal. This is not a speculative philosophical exercise for me, though it seems to be only that for the bulk of the posts on this thread.
It does in fact require a physical host body to remain. Human being, IS awareness. The energetic body IS awareness. Human being, being awareness, isn't another model just because of a temporary absence relative to knowing how to separate from the physical host.
Human being is not automatically relegated to "inorganic being" status on account of attaining a created energy body.
The point that mr Durward gave up on is that the energy body is created and the body outside the body spoken of by spiritual immortalists, is not created. Why? Working with the psychological, one's accomplishment is created. What's that? If such activity is relative to the person, any result is relative to birth and death. That's Not immortality. Whereas working with potential (by seeing it) the resultant achievement is already nonoriginated. THAT's immortal. This is not a speculative philosophical exercise for me, though it seems to be only that for the bulk of the posts on this thread.
Don't know. You know, when I encounter astral parasites, which I call feareaters, those are supposed to be former humans, now feeding on emotional energy to prevent themselves from disintegrating. One I smelled in state between waking and sleep and the stench was damn awful. However I'm also told that these are soulless shells running on survival instinct with little to no intellect of their own, awakened to their state because person was for example addict that was constantly haunted by need, that made the astral body (or mental?) active on its own.
From my experience it is hard to tell if they have a soul and are supposed immortals with soul and consciousness. I doubt that part. They can have some memories, I think based on the dream one of them caused me to have. That doesn't prove soul or free will.
I've met other spirits that seemed to have not only mind but feelings and thoughts, so I assume them to be with soul and possibly immortal. (can't be sure) Benevolent towards me, usually.
Also suggest that my assumptions might be colored by how these spirits behave towards me...
Immortalism is not within the confines of rational intellectualism (psychological functionality) of the being that is going to die.
Those who want to toy with immortalism and can do nothing more than opine relative to half-ass narratives that DON'T matter are simply cloying their own ability to see reality.
Complicated talk is complicated for YOU.
It is necessary to tune oneself to the warriors way in order to drop the bullshit oncer and for all. Is that a big Huh, mr Durward?
As for immortality and arriving at its essential nature and application, it is an unequivocal fact that the warriors way is the foundational construct without which shaman initiates are inexorably shipwrecked in the immensity of eternity. That is straight from Don Juan Matus, the teachings of which made Carlos Castañeda such a target for conspiracies of "fraud."
What is the point you are contributing to the clarification and study of immortalism, mr Durward— other than complaining about unnecessarily complicated verbiage relative to inconceivability?
If you don't see potential, it is because you don't know potential. Potential is already nonorigination. The Unborn is deathless. What do you think immortality consists of? If you can't work with nonorigination, you are not practicing it. If you are not practicing nonorigination, how are you going to arrive at its power, hmmmmmm?
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Morell wrote:
It does in fact require a physical host body to remain. Human being, IS awareness. The energetic body IS awareness. Human being, being awareness, isn't another model just because of a temporary absence relative to knowing how to separate from the physical host.
Human being is not automatically relegated to "inorganic being" status on account of attaining a created energy body.
The point that mr Durward gave up on is that the energy body is created and the body outside the body spoken of by spiritual immortalists, is not created. Why? Working with the psychological, one's accomplishment is created. What's that? If such activity is relative to the person, any result is relative to birth and death. That's Not immortality. Whereas working with potential (by seeing it) the resultant achievement is already nonoriginated. THAT's immortal. This is not a speculative philosophical exercise for me, though it seems to be only that for the bulk of the posts on this thread.
I would love to continue sparring, but not with arrogance disguised as complicated verbage, in particular when your warrior's way is impossible unless you have been chosen by destiny and allowed to pass by the Eagle, and you must then belong to a group run by a Nagual. But you may think you are a Nagual, who knows? You have obviously relegated everything to a religious cult fervor, and once a person dives down that rabbit hole, no amount of clarity will be accepted if it challenges belief. So we shall not be communicating on this platform, since you appear to think looking down your nose at others is your goal here. So, unless you are an immortal, talking down to a mortal, I suggest you pull your panties out of your crack and act like a reasonable human being. Perhaps you are one of the cult witches following Castaneda? That would explain the venom. A true warrior, following the Warrior's Way, would never try to dictate to others, or teach with such arrogance. You are indulging in being superior, in your own mind.
„Half of them left their bones in the corroborating room. So now they are solitary birds. Let's leave it that way. All we can talk about is our line."
Castaneda, The Eagle's Gift
I suppose that it is nature of becoming advanced practicioner that yous top looking for a system and instead look for ways to enhance or improve your system, finding out what is right and what is wrong, but no longer hoping to find a perfect system from hand of someone else. Perfect system doesn't exist anyway.
There are systems such as what originated in Bon that purport to teach immortalization (the rainbow body, which Tibetan Buddhism took up). I think this fades off into tall tales at times & the condition of Tibet under Chinese oppression brings the obvious question where all these immortals are, as they could easily use their siddhis to influence the leadership of China. lol
Be that as it may, my own experience confirms that a radical shift in the physical body occurs with the immortalization process. However, one might preserve the astral body for a considerable length without transforming the physical body. In some Italian esoteric circles that is described as achieving the White Work, as opposed to the ultimate Red.
I had to try all sorts of things and invent my own to get anywhere, and that was after many years. One conclusion I reached was you can do a million different practices and if you don't bring onboard certain hidden parts of the Self, the 'activation' of a higher body won't transpire.
