In need of a bit of advice

[Theurgist]

I hope the following won't raise the aire of anyone here. I have a deep respect for all traditions within the magick sphere and for the esotericists practising. I am discussing a personal preference, I don't have much control over it, and this is coming not from a place of superiority or hate. If I caused any uneasiness, I humbly apologise, it was not my intention at all

Greetings all! I was doing some exercises related to journaling a few days ago when I realized something. I remembered back in the day when I was practising ceremonial magick the fact that I couldn't "get into" anything that was even remotely related to the Judeo-Christian milieu. And nothing much changed for me, years ahead.

For example, I'd rather not use God's names, the Lord's prayer, transliterations of divine names, names of Angels etc. Even the basic stuff like the Lesser Ritual of the Pentagram (LRP), I could not get into because of the Angel names implied. Enochian either, what a loss.

To be more specific, I could perform the rituals without issue but I have a mental block or something. I suspect it was due to a strict Christian upbringing (and that is saying the least), that I knew before I even began that it wouldn't work.
The issue is, that I'm missing a GREAT deal of the magick work, within the context of Western Occultism. And I don't want to miss that much.
I'm not here to whine, I'm here to solve this problem of mine.

So my question is, could I just replace the Judeo-Christian sacred elements with the ones from another spirituality? Maybe Greek? Or Assyrian maybe? Is this ok?

To take the example of the LRP, could I replace the name of the Angels with something equivalent if I study and understand their functions?

And if so, are there others here who have also chosen something other than the J-C spirituality for their work who could give me some advice?

Thank you very much and please excuse me if I created any trouble or discomfort

 

[Xenophon]

I'm gonna recommend the book Helios Unbound by Nick Farrell.

It's a pagan Abramelin operation, but it's also a whole system of theurgic ceremonial magic with a Golden Dawnish structure, but based on the PGM (Greco-Egyptian magic)

So it's got a "Greek Cross", a pentagram rite, an elemental balancing rite, rituals for the lunar mansions, etc etc in there and you can use all those without committing to the actual intensive 7-month program, just take what is useful to you. (If you see my other thread on it, I have some complaints about structure, but these are only a problem if trying to do the full operation as I am. And I think they're all resolved now after I asked the author for clarification. The fact that I had those complaints but am still using it as my sourcebook for almost all my ritual work tells your I think highly of it)

I think in general you would get a lot out of looking into the the PGM - the Greek Magical Papyri - because it's a very old collection of spells from Alexandria around the turn of the millennium so and it's supreme god is a sort of syncretic sun god that combines Helios with the Egyptian sun gods and Aion from the cult of Mithras, among others. Hekate also shows up a fair bit.

Here's a link relevant to that (again noting that when it says "god" it means the syncretic sun god, not Yahweh)

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Digital Ambler (the blog) is also a good source for PGM rites, but a little more intermediate. You can of course also go straight to the source material, but they take a bit to to repurpose to the modern world (eg how to adapt instructions like "step 1: drown a falcon in milk") so I wouldn't start there.

(Jack Grayle is running his PGM Praxis course soon - it's a year long course with a new Greco-Egyptian ritual each week. I would LOVE to do it but I'm already oathbound to the Helios Unbound operation this year. But it's expensive and you don't even know if you're interested in the PGM yet or not - just mentioning because it's what I'd love to do)

Moving on, another book I think you might find useful is "Rediscover the Magick of the Gods and Goddesses: Revealing the Mysteries of Theurgy"

Book – PDF - Jean-Louis de Biasi - Rediscover the Magick of the Gods and Goddesses: Revealing the Mysteries of Theurgy

The philosophical roots of much of Wicca and Paganism, as well as Western ceremonial magick, come from ancient Egypt. In this thoroughly researched book, the Grand Master of the Aurum Solis shares the history and evolution of the theurgic tradition―including the origins of Hermeticism in Egypt...

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You could also look into John Michael Greer's books on druidry, because he had a golden Dawn background and so his druid rituals are a lot more ceremonial and less witchcrafty. The "Sphere of Protection" is their complex circle opening and power invoking rite if you want to look it up

I'm PRETTY sure this doesn't have any Abrahamic stuff, and planetary magic is such a robust space to practice in imo, because they're so... obviously present, idk

Book – PDF - Planetary Magick (2011) - Melita Denning & Osborne Phillips

I could have sworn the 1989 edition was on WF but I can't find it so starting a new thread. Planetary Magick by world-famous occultists, authors, and magicians Melita Denning and Osborne Phillips, serves three purposes. First, if you want more magical information about the planets, this book...

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(You could check out Rufus Opus Seven Spheres but I'm less confident it doesn't have anything Abrahamic in it. You'd think it wouldn't? But I don't remember)

Aidan Wachter's Six Ways is ofc always gold, but it is more focused at animism and the local spirits than deities and what I would really call theurgy

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Another absolutely beautiful and strongly recommended book is Rod and Ring by Samuel David. It's a year-long series of Sumerian initiation rites. But it's much closer to pure devotion than theurgy, so would only recommend if you have a specific love for that pantheon. (I have taken parts of it and worked them into theurgic rituals, but it's not meant for that)

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This is another book I'm very interested in - it's both theurgic and thaumaturgic

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I haven't read it but I've interacted with the author on the Sumer discord and she seems to know her shit, so again, if that's a specific path of interest, it could be worth looking at

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^ that book above was "Evil Speech Stand Aside: Ancient Mesopotamian Ishib Magic for the Modern Magician"

The point about the Greek PGM material is a great idea! One of the least bearable things about the Crowley corpus is his Kabbalah rant where he keeps harping on the manifest falsehood that that approach is the only game in town.

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I'm sorry to say this but I think that you are mistaking my thought processes for something else. Basically, everything you said comes from a point of view that I find deeply disgusting, to say the least, and that I strongly oppose. I feel bad that my post led to such misguided opinions. Finally, I wouldn't practice something from Evola if my life depended on it. I think you have mistaken me for someone and something else and that has more to do with your projecting than what I meant.
And thanks for correcting me, I did find one tradition that I do not respect. At all

I suppose one test of advancement in magick might be whether one has overcome the Pavlovian reactions his dying culture has steeped him in.

 

[Theurgist]

I don't know what this means. I use the barbaric words, and I do my best to pronounce them based on what I've learned of how Greek was pronounced in Egypt around the time of the PGM. But I can't help but be aware that pronunciation hasn't seemed to matter much for previous practitioners

On a funnier note maybe, I remember a Polyphanes podcast on Hermeticism. I don't remember which one exactly but he said that when he started using the barbarous words in the PGM he did not have the koine pronunciation but the magick still worked. He said that maybe the gods thought he had a speech impediment but it worked

 

[Asteriskos]

I hope the following won't raise the aire of anyone here. I have a deep respect for all traditions within the magick sphere and for the esotericists practising. I am discussing a personal preference, I don't have much control over it, and this is coming not from a place of superiority or hate. If I caused any uneasiness, I humbly apologise, it was not my intention at all

Greetings all! I was doing some exercises related to journaling a few days ago when I realized something. I remembered back in the day when I was practising ceremonial magick the fact that I couldn't "get into" anything that was even remotely related to the Judeo-Christian milieu. And nothing much changed for me, years ahead.

For example, I'd rather not use God's names, the Lord's prayer, transliterations of divine names, names of Angels etc. Even the basic stuff like the Lesser Ritual of the Pentagram (LRP), I could not get into because of the Angel names implied. Enochian either, what a loss.

To be more specific, I could perform the rituals without issue but I have a mental block or something. I suspect it was due to a strict Christian upbringing (and that is saying the least), that I knew before I even began that it wouldn't work.
The issue is, that I'm missing a GREAT deal of the magick work, within the context of Western Occultism. And I don't want to miss that much.
I'm not here to whine, I'm here to solve this problem of mine.

So my question is, could I just replace the Judeo-Christian sacred elements with the ones from another spirituality? Maybe Greek? Or Assyrian maybe? Is this ok?

Jason Miller has done just That! it's primarily devoid of Abrahamic / Judaeo / Christian attributions. It is though Hellenismos / Hellenistic centric.
One of his books was released as: "The Sorcerer's Secrets" around 2009, it has since been reprinted as: "Real Sorcery" by Weiser 2023.
I recommend his stuff highly as a solid foundation to build Your personal system upon, it's not just a rehash of GD / RR et AC material, though it has all of the nuts and bolts of Thaumaturgy and Theurgy that will stand you in good stead right out of the box! I came upon his first edition back in 2009 and built my own system out of it. It has become my "Crooked Path" that weaves between the LHP / RHP! If we're going to be "Well Rounded" we touch upon All Paths. This recommendation is based upon the results I've gotten as well as upon my UPG!
It's worth checking out, I Wish You Well upon Your Path! - Asteriskos

To take the example of the LRP, could I replace the name of the Angels with something equivalent if I study and understand their functions?

And if so, are there others here who have also chosen something other than the J-C spirituality for their work who could give me some advice?

Thank you very much and please excuse me if I created any trouble or discomfort

 

[Promise]

I hope the following won't raise the aire of anyone here. I have a deep respect for all traditions within the magick sphere and for the esotericists practising. I am discussing a personal preference, I don't have much control over it, and this is coming not from a place of superiority or hate. If I caused any uneasiness, I humbly apologise, it was not my intention at all

Greetings all! I was doing some exercises related to journaling a few days ago when I realized something. I remembered back in the day when I was practising ceremonial magick the fact that I couldn't "get into" anything that was even remotely related to the Judeo-Christian milieu. And nothing much changed for me, years ahead.

For example, I'd rather not use God's names, the Lord's prayer, transliterations of divine names, names of Angels etc. Even the basic stuff like the Lesser Ritual of the Pentagram (LRP), I could not get into because of the Angel names implied. Enochian either, what a loss.

To be more specific, I could perform the rituals without issue but I have a mental block or something. I suspect it was due to a strict Christian upbringing (and that is saying the least), that I knew before I even began that it wouldn't work.
The issue is, that I'm missing a GREAT deal of the magick work, within the context of Western Occultism. And I don't want to miss that much.
I'm not here to whine, I'm here to solve this problem of mine.

So my question is, could I just replace the Judeo-Christian sacred elements with the ones from another spirituality? Maybe Greek? Or Assyrian maybe? Is this ok?

To take the example of the LRP, could I replace the name of the Angels with something equivalent if I study and understand their functions?

And if so, are there others here who have also chosen something other than the J-C spirituality for their work who could give me some advice?

Thank you very much and please excuse me if I created any trouble or discomfort

Very interesting idea.

Another possible approach would be to dismantle your resistance to the Judeo Christian, perhaps with something more mundane and straight forward such as The Sedona Method, EFT (meridian tapping) , Core Transformation, NLP / Timeline Therapy. Etc.

While not quite as sexy as magick, these approaches are great for breaking through inner resistance. Of course there are also magical ways to approach this as well.

In any event, the basic idea I'm suggesting is resolving the resistance.

On the other hand the idea you are proposing as a work around sounds pretty cool!

 

[WeirdGnome]

So my question is, could I just replace the Judeo-Christian sacred elements with the ones from another spirituality? Maybe Greek? Or Assyrian maybe? Is this ok?

Hi! If you're still interested in GD tradition then John Michael Greer wrote a book about Celtic Golden Dawn. Maybe this could be a starting point.
.