Is Enochian magic dangerous?

[Butterfly Affect]

I've only read that this type of magick had claims of being "dangerous" around one or two days ago. I know I did an Enochian ritual a few months ago, but it was a protection type ritual. Are the claims just from people who think all magic is dangerous, or is Enochian magick specifically risky?

 

[Asteriskos]

I find the wife swapping incident not at all a reason to disbelieve it. Kelly may have had a bad reputation, but he’s the one that wanted to stop the experiments with enochian and Dee had to persuade him to keep going.

It could have been a form of initiation. As in, learning that nothing is owned by anyone in the highest spiritual realms. This is even mentioned at the end of the biography on Pajl Foster Case in one of the alleged communications they were told some thing similar, which while shocking, and only applicable to those at an extremely high level of spiritual evolution, does make some sense to me.

Paul Foster Case was definitely worried about the use of Enochian. But at his time period, John Dee’s five book of mysteries was not translated and available in the forms it is today. They generally got their info from “A True and faithful relation” which was barely true and faithful, incomplete, and it even seems to be a hit piece.

Today we have much more available to learn about the true origins of Enochian and John Dee. Peterson did an excellent job at translating and adding commentary, I’m in the middle of reading the 5th edition and I’ve realized how lucky I am to have access to as much info as we all do in this time period.

For what it’s worth, I’m not so sure the PELE ring and other paraphernalia are as needed as people think. I believe these were so stressed to John Dee because he was the one bringing in an entirely new magickal system and it was extremely important that none of the direct messaging he got from the angels was distorted or given by an imposter. But after it was all revealed to him, I think it was meant to be used by many more people, and it seems that the language itself has magickal power just by the vibration of the words even if just a fraction of its true power.

I myself am not ready to do any advanced enochian workings. But I do think the small bits and pieces of enochian language and vocalizations are safe that damon brand uses in some books. And as for scrying aethyrs and other more advanced techniques, I’m sure it can be used safely if someone is fully prepared and I’m sure that the system itself is more coherent and tested now with more years of use as well as more complete source material.

Yeah, Kelly was a rouge and opportunist par excellence as well. There are other reasons that I personally dislike about the system. I have used it so that's why I can say that. Others use it to to good effect or not as they will. Once again, Paul Foster Case and Dolores Ashcroft-Nowiki both do mention specific reasons They think it's Dangerous. I don't think it's any more dangerous than Graeco-Egyption magic/k Personally!

Post automatically merged: Aug 19, 2025

I've only read that this type of magick had claims of being "dangerous" around one or two days ago. I know I did an Enochian ritual a few months ago, but it was a protection type ritual. Are the claims just from people who think all magic is dangerous, or is Enochian magick specifically risky?

There are "certain" people, some of which are more or less well known that have made statements to the effect they think the system is dangerous.
Two of these people are Paul Foster Case and Dolores Ashcroft-Nowiki. I'm not going to go over the reasons again because the information is available if one wants to find it badly enough on the net. What is Important with any system like this is that the "Sonics" generated by using it can create certain "vibratory results" IF the right/correct vibratory rate and pacing happens to be used. These "results" can be both good or bad depending upon a lot of criteria, and individual points of view. Like the "Sorcerer's Apprentice", it's always a good idea to at least Try to understand WTF you're doing Before you do it?

Post automatically merged: Aug 19, 2025

Addendum: Some people even think that the system has no Occult significance at all. The theory being that since John Dee was the original agent "007" for Queen Elizabeth, and an adept "cryptographer" it was merely used to encrypt his messages while abroad doing business for the Crown?

 

[sahgwa]

As someone that worked with Enochian magic for over a decade, I'd say it's more effective than anything else I've tried, and so if misapplied, can be obviously more dangerous. Great power, great responsibility and all that jazz. At the same time, the system is very complex in theory and (IMO) no simple books have yet been written (despite many attempts) to allow a novice approach the system, hence it tends to be seen as something more advanced, even though it really is not much different from various other systems.


I read Case's letters to Regardie. I can't find them now, but from what I remember, he didn't mention anything about a friend. My impression was that his opposition to Enochian was rooted in his dislike of Kelley given his shady reputation.


I do agree with this.


...but not with this. I don't know what it is about Enochian, but it IS much more effective than other similar systems.

I think Lon DuQuettes Enochian Vision Magick is great.
It lays everything out in detail, and with respect.
And you are able to use it to declutter the system and make it work in a streamlined way.

That said, I have only tried skrying the Aethyrs a few times. And one invoking.
I was not ready previously, and lately I am more ready after years of practise and some initiations, but I have not felt the super pull yet.
So I feel it best not to rush it.

 

[ZAXCY]

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[Yazata]

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The Baptist's Head. Please provide some context rather than simply posting a video

 

[ZAXCY]

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My bad mod - Taken from the Website of Alan Chapman, part II is also linked in one of the Worp FM Podcast eps

 

[GreyBird]

One practitioner of magic wrote:

A Serious Warning!

I am tired of the low-level niveau regarding magic, shamanism and occult phenomenons in the internet. So I have to emphasize this again: Dear beginner! KEEP AWAY FROM ENOCHIAN MAGIC! THAT IS SERIOUS! - Otherwise: he that will not hear must feel and hopefully afterwards you are still capable of learning something from your mistake. This section of my website is for your information only. Its purpose is to give the advanced magician some further ideas. The energies in the Æthyrs are much too strong and can crush one single soul incidentally.

I'm taking an enochian Astral Class now. And writing a reference book. Inside Classes of Spirits, Names of God, Seniors, Kings, Great Crosses, Lesser Crosses, Above the Crosses, Below the Crosses, Wicked, Governours, Gazavaa, Alchemical

Good luck.

 

[sahgwa]

One practitioner of magic wrote:

A Serious Warning!

I am tired of the low-level niveau regarding magic, shamanism and occult phenomenons in the internet. So I have to emphasize this again: Dear beginner! KEEP AWAY FROM ENOCHIAN MAGIC! THAT IS SERIOUS! - Otherwise: he that will not hear must feel and hopefully afterwards you are still capable of learning something from your mistake. This section of my website is for your information only. Its purpose is to give the advanced magician some further ideas. The energies in the Æthyrs are much too strong and can crush one single soul incidentally.

I'm taking an enochian Astral Class now. And writing a reference book. Inside Classes of Spirits, Names of God, Seniors, Kings, Great Crosses, Lesser Crosses, Above the Crosses, Below the Crosses, Wicked, Governours, Gazavaa, Alchemical

Good luck.

I am going to call 'nonsense' on the 'crushing your soul incidentally' part, whatever incidentally means in this case.....
Nothing wrong with skrying the aethyrs and invoking certain elemental angels, or the like, as long as you do a proper banishing and cleansing.
The worst that can happen is that you get no results , because you 'get crushed' due to 'low level' and it was just kind of a foggy experience.

 

[FireBorn]

There seems to be quite a bit of historical blending of fantasy and just not knowing history happening here, and normally who cares, but in this case it makes a huge difference.

1. John Dee and Ed Kelly were NOT doing Enochian anything. Not one bit. They were Christians, getting messages from the Christian gods messengers about the apocalypse. Full stop. This fact matters a bunch.

2. Enochian magick as you know it today was created by Mathers and Wescott. They took a few notes of John Dees and added Kabbalah, correspondences, and the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn framework, and made Enochian Magick in the 1880s (roughly 20 years before Crowley made Thelema). This is the occult side you know of today.

This mattes because Tossing John Dees name around as if it was Enochian is just flat wrong. He was NOT an occultist. No judgment here, just sorting out fact from fiction. Magick itself is filled with wonder and doesn't need conflation to make it cooler.

Regarding the danger aspect? I would honestly say that if the individual thinks its dangerous, then its dangerous. Like any other system of magick, the danger lies in the individuals mental and emotional strength and ability to hold two worlds at once without fracturing.

Hope this helps someone out there.

 

[sahgwa]

There seems to be quite a bit of historical blending of fantasy and just not knowing history happening here, and normally who cares, but in this case it makes a huge difference.

1. John Dee and Ed Kelly were NOT doing Enochian anything. Not one bit. They were Christians, getting messages from the Christian gods messengers about the apocalypse. Full stop. This fact matters a bunch.

2. Enochian magick as you know it today was created by Mathers and Wescott. They took a few notes of John Dees and added Kabbalah, correspondences, and the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn framework, and made Enochian Magick in the 1880s (roughly 20 years before Crowley made Thelema). This is the occult side you know of today.

This mattes because Tossing John Dees name around as if it was Enochian is just flat wrong. He was NOT an occultist. No judgment here, just sorting out fact from fiction. Magick itself is filled with wonder and doesn't need conflation to make it cooler.

Regarding the danger aspect? I would honestly say that if the individual thinks its dangerous, then its dangerous. Like any other system of magick, the danger lies in the individuals mental and emotional strength and ability to hold two worlds at once without fracturing.

Hope this helps someone out there.

I will argue that the alphabet and grammar/syntax they received is Enochian (Dee and Kelly of course) is it not?
Yes they were definitely doing Christian magick, but without them, we would not have the names and the system , which works.
The Holy Table, lamen, sigilum, etc are all magical technology that creates the proper gateway.
We can of course argue that it's all inside you, but these tools help put you in the right state of mind and 'frequency'

 

[GreyBird]

I think the only real danger is the potential for developing a speech impediment from all the tongue twister words.

@Lurker brought up a good point regarding Paul Foster Case in a recent thread regarding the Shem. I recall some debates around his perspective of Enochian being fatally dangerous because he lost a dear friend who used it to some horrible disease. He blamed the magic, though later I read his perspective was rooted in the notion that the system is incomplete and unexplored.

Donald Tyson seemed to me be heavily fixated on the apocalyptic aspects of Enochian, but I recall at some point he walked that back at some point and said he meant "personal apocalypse" as in a self-realization type thing.

I have used Enochian for years as part of my work and, aside from the occasional freak weather even coinciding with the use of certain calls, I don't think it is any more dangerous than the Simon Necronomicon, and a lot of people think that's just a sham.

Also, I think the spirits I have interacted with are quite witty and have a great sense of humor.

Do you need a circle or do the LBRP while doing simon necronomicon?

 

[Frater R.P.G.]

There seems to be quite a bit of historical blending of fantasy and just not knowing history happening here, and normally who cares, but in this case it makes a huge difference.

1. John Dee and Ed Kelly were NOT doing Enochian anything. Not one bit. They were Christians, getting messages from the Christian gods messengers about the apocalypse. Full stop. This fact matters a bunch.

2. Enochian magick as you know it today was created by Mathers and Wescott. They took a few notes of John Dees and added Kabbalah, correspondences, and the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn framework, and made Enochian Magick in the 1880s (roughly 20 years before Crowley made Thelema). This is the occult side you know of today.

This mattes because Tossing John Dees name around as if it was Enochian is just flat wrong. He was NOT an occultist. No judgment here, just sorting out fact from fiction. Magick itself is filled with wonder and doesn't need conflation to make it cooler.

You're confusing some facts here.

Yes, Dee was Christian, but that doesn't mean he was not an occultist. He read all sorts of magical grimoires and himself perform various magical experiments, from alchemical to spiritual - like his actions with angels.

Kelley even more so experimented with Goetia, for which he was in fact several times reprimended by the angels. This is part of the reason many people doubt the system, believing it might really be demonic, not angelic.

They didn't just "get messages", they used magical methods to call upon the angels. They received in return a more advanced magical system, with some of its elements clearly inspired by older grimoires. On one occasion the angels even told Dee to grab his copy of Liber Juratus to copy the pattern of Sigillum Dei from there as a baseline for their "True" version. The angels also spoke of various Kabbalistic concepts. As such Enochian Magic is not entirely distinct from other systems, but rather it was meant as a correction to corrupted magical methodologies.

Golden Dawn did not create Enochian Magic at all. If anything, they reduced it. The original system as described in Dee's diaries is at least three times larger than what the Golden Dawn curriculum covers. They completely skipped anything related to Liber Loagaeth, barely touched on the Heptarchia, and even the Great Table they only covered partially (ignoring 91 Governors). Some practitioners believe that the dangers of Enochiana have to do with that stripped GD version of it being popular and it's perfectly safe if done as originally intended.

Notably, the GD did coin the term "Enochian Magic", though the references to Enoch are frequent in the angelic actions, so it's not that bad of a name.