[Help] Is psalm magick too strong?

[Burg0k]

I'm very interested in psalm magick because, from what I've seen, it's both incredibly simple and incredibly powerful. The problem I have with it is that it seems WAY TOO EXTREME—for example, if you want to curse someone, psalm magick destroys their life and kills their family, or at least that's what it seems to do based on what's written in the psalms. I want to use it, but I don’t always want to go to such extremes. Anyway, I seem to recall there was a technique where you combined fragments from various psalms to create your own spell, but I don’t remember what it’s called or if it was exactly as I’m describing it. Any thoughts on all this?

 

[WonderFire]

Which being evidently cares about spiritual honesty, at multiple points making it clear that he considers contrition without true will of repentance a great offence. The Psalms were in large part inspired by David's journey of moral transformation, a profound change of will. To effectively use a penitential Psalm as a purification ritual requires to see what you want to purify yourself from like David has seen his own misdeeds. That also naturally implies the choice to undo the curse, which kind of defeats the purpose of the whole process.

I don't think the God of Abraham considers violence itself a bad thing. As evidence of violence being OK, i submit other Psalms- if God abhorred violence he would have struck those Psalms in the first place. The paradigm of praying a Psalm as a curse lays the agency on God anyway- "Your will be done, oh Lord, not mine" is the mentality behind the prayer and also often used line during such prayers as a way of further eliminating guilt from the person praying.

Praxis is overrated in this case. People not only don't know what's good for them but also aren't very good in connecting causes and effects in those matters, which effect is actually strenghtened by doing self-detrimental work - consciously or not.

No, I can't disagree more. Praxis comes first. I disagree people are bad at connecting the dots. Every time a system of theory is pitted against experience, experience comes out on top in discerning the truth of practical knowledge.

I'm sorry if this comes off as judgmental. I'm trying my best to speak with courtesy from my best knowledge and experience, which in this case is quite extensive.

No worries. I enjoyed this exchange.

 

[Nembra]

I don't think the God of Abraham considers violence itself a bad thing. As evidence of violence being OK, i submit other Psalms- if God abhorred violence he would have struck those Psalms in the first place.

Just so we understand each other - I never implied he does.

The paradigm of praying a Psalm as a curse lays the agency on God anyway- "Your will be done, oh Lord, not mine" is the mentality behind the prayer and also often used line during such prayers as a way of further eliminating guilt from the person praying.

Well, then we have a conflict. Penitential psalms often quite clearly put the fault at whoever speaks them. If the "curse" Psalms are nothing but a call for divine justice there would be no need for penitence.

No, I can't disagree more. Praxis comes first. I disagree people are bad at connecting the dots. Every time a system of theory is pitted against experience, experience comes out on top in discerning the truth of practical knowledge.

Let me rephrase: people are easily deceived, and this includes self-deception. There are for example quite some protection rituals in circulation that simply don't work, it's just in the best interest of whatever they're protecting against to pretend they work. Similarly, a person who has brought upon themselves divine wrath (or, in less mythological language, hurt themselves spiritually) might by this very fact lack the clarity to distinguish the source or even existence of the curse.

 

[ortizem]

I have no idea what could you possibly mean.

is everyone in this forum just straight up rude and self abosrbed...... the engagement around here is about as pg16 as the esoteric knowledge gathered around

 

[Nembra]

is everyone in this forum just straight up rude and self abosrbed...... the engagement around here is about as pg16 as the esoteric knowledge gathered around

On top of the fact that I don't speak this godforsaken language natively, I'm kind of difficult to insult and I have genuinely no idea what people find rude. I was genuinely asking what do you mean.

 

[ortizem]

On top of the fact that I don't speak this godforsaken language natively, I'm kind of difficult to insult and I have genuinely no idea what people find rude. I was genuinely asking what do you mean.

oh my mistake then. here i thought the internet was domestically and not international.
again i will take all i said back....
if you still care the talmud curses you more than the quran.. the quaran has been. burned and rewritten more, meaaning they dont hold onto esoteric knowledge in such regard as we see today with israel wanting to rebuild a temple..... again sorry kid

 

[Nembra]

oh my mistake then. here i thought the internet was domestically and not international.
again i will take all i said back....
if you still care the talmud curses you more than the quran.. the quaran has been. burned and rewritten more, meaaning they dont hold onto esoteric knowledge in such regard as we see today with israel wanting to rebuild a temple..... again sorry kid

No offence taken, though what the hell do you mean by "kid"?
But really, I can't really bring myself to care much about talmud, it has a lot of really silly stuff. Then again, quran is also a weird book all things considered. Why bring those up?

 

[ortizem]

This might come off as argumentative, but I cannot agree that cursing anyone is ever completely safe, and especially with Psalms. Ironically, especially 51 can be easily misused in this context. The main axis the power of Psalms revolves around is honesty, so saying "Sacrifice to God is a broken spirit, a broken, contrite heart you never scorn." as a part of a curse ritual is in fact quite a potent way to curse yourself.

bcauase years ago LEo zagami a conspiraxcy theroist said the quaran if repeated continously you un;ock secret etc..... its in a video
and the talmud says something like starve your enemy so you dont directly kill him. im sure some of the saphardic rituals are the OG of the Obaramelin.... furthermore exodus says menstrual blood is tainted..... superstition between oration and physical elements like the extremist muslims and their violent theologies like a ghetto inquisition that noone cares about

and i live in Massachutsetts, kid is just a friendly way. FL is Breh or partna... unless its a fight then noone is your partner or your N-word.......................

 

[Nembra]

bcauase years ago LEo zagami a conspiraxcy theroist said the quaran if repeated continously you un;ock secret etc..... its in a video
and the talmud says something like starve your enemy so you dont directly kill him. im sure some of the saphardic rituals are the OG of the Obaramelin.... furthermore exodus says menstrual blood is tainted..... superstition between oration and physical elements like the extremist muslims and their violent theologies like a ghetto inquisition that noone cares about

I honestly still have no idea what are you trying to communicate. I mean, I get the references more or less, but I don't see how does that connect to anything.

 

[WonderFire]

Just so we understand each other - I never implied he does.

Sure.

Well, then we have a conflict. Penitential psalms often quite clearly put the fault at whoever speaks them. If the "curse" Psalms are nothing but a call for divine justice there would be no need for penitence.

Certain acts and things simply create miasma/negative energy regardless of what everybody after Christ considers morality. For instance- menstruation creates it and it requires ritual purification. Leviticus is clear it requires a "sin offering" to rectify. Note that this isn't unique to Old Testament- similar purity requirements are seen in other religions around Mediterranean. Yet, menstruation is a natural and proper biological function, not under control of woman and is essentially amoral. Yet it still creates "sin".
Violence also creates it. A lot of violent thoughts and violent speech will create it, even if used in "justified" imprecatory prayer.

Let me rephrase: people are easily deceived, and this includes self-deception. There are for example quite some protection rituals in circulation that simply don't work, it's just in the best interest of whatever they're protecting against to pretend they work. Similarly, a person who has brought upon themselves divine wrath (or, in less mythological language, hurt themselves spiritually) might by this very fact lack the clarity to distinguish the source or even existence of the curse.

Something like reading Psalm 51 bringing down divine wrath would not go unnoticed by people. Have you ever witnessed a curse or at least accumulation of considerable amount of negative energy?
Depression and anxiety out of nowhere, stuff breaking down, stuff keeps falling out of your hands, plants around you dying, suddenly feeling like you're coming down with the flu or even developing mystery illnesses, getting fired, everybody pissed off at you for absolutely no reason. Even staunch atheist begin to complain "It's like I'm cursed or something."
Protection rituals that don't work can fly below the radar because they aren't tested. They simply don't do anything, but because the person isn't getting actively attacked by anything there's nothing to protect against. This is different from something that has an actively negative effect.


I care about occultism and expanding its knowledge base. Psalms are often used amongst Christians and Jews with great results and they're easy to use and adapt into various contexts, so they represent a valuable entry point for newbies from conventional religious background. I've never even heard of anyone getting backlash from praying them, including in preparation of doing something that would be considered extremely sinful (summoning a demon to get the operator laid, or even killing a person) or after such operations.

 

[Tehuti]

I'm very interested in psalm magick because, from what I've seen, it's both incredibly simple and incredibly powerful. The problem I have with it is that it seems WAY TOO EXTREME—for example, if you want to curse someone, psalm magick destroys their life and kills their family, or at least that's what it seems to do based on what's written in the psalms. I want to use it, but I don’t always want to go to such extremes. Anyway, I seem to recall there was a technique where you combined fragments from various psalms to create your own spell, but I don’t remember what it’s called or if it was exactly as I’m describing it. Any thoughts on all this?

I little trick I used for the psalm is , I try visualizing everything I read like watching a movie and feeling it the emotions. You can try that you may feel the intense energy in it

 

[Aeternus]

I little trick I used for the psalm is , I try visualizing everything I read like watching a movie and feeling it the emotions. You can try that you may feel the intense energy in it

I do the same with Psalm 51, Psalm 147, for example.

It really evokes a lot of emotions and helps me to feel the Psalm even more.

 

[Nembra]

Certain acts and things simply create miasma/negative energy regardless of what everybody after Christ considers morality. For instance- menstruation creates it and it requires ritual purification. Leviticus is clear it requires a "sin offering" to rectify. Note that this isn't unique to Old Testament- similar purity requirements are seen in other religions around Mediterranean. Yet, menstruation is a natural and proper biological function, not under control of woman and is essentially amoral. Yet it still creates "sin".
Violence also creates it. A lot of violent thoughts and violent speech will create it, even if used in "justified" imprecatory prayer.

That's true considering the old law, but David is quite evidently going way beyond the ethics of miasma. That's among other things he's considered one of Christ prototypes - his approach to morality clearly indicates a much more developed conception of sin.

Something like reading Psalm 51 bringing down divine wrath would not go unnoticed by people. Have you ever witnessed a curse or at least accumulation of considerable amount of negative energy?
Depression and anxiety out of nowhere, stuff breaking down, stuff keeps falling out of your hands, plants around you dying, suddenly feeling like you're coming down with the flu or even developing mystery illnesses, getting fired, everybody pissed off at you for absolutely no reason. Even staunch atheist begin to complain "It's like I'm cursed or something."
Protection rituals that don't work can fly below the radar because they aren't tested. They simply don't do anything, but because the person isn't getting actively attacked by anything there's nothing to protect against. This is different from something that has an actively negative effect.

This is only true as long as we assume the "negative energy" (I despise this term with significant intensity) is an unintelligent force that cannot will to conceal its presence. I know about lives quietly poisoned over long years, a malignant rot stemming not uncommonly from cynical use and understanding of scriptures or sacraments. People unaware even of the extent of their own unhappiness because of how slowly it encroaches.

I care about occultism and expanding its knowledge base. Psalms are often used amongst Christians and Jews with great results and they're easy to use and adapt into various contexts, so they represent a valuable entry point for newbies from conventional religious background. I've never even heard of anyone getting backlash from praying them, including in preparation of doing something that would be considered extremely sinful (summoning a demon to get the operator laid, or even killing a person) or after such operations.

That's the thing though. To use a Psalm for evil (sin, let's say) both requires and reinforces a certain distortion of perspective that creates an opening and a blind spot for things that are often way too subtle to betray their presence by any form of abject discomfort.