Jack Grayle Controversy

[solyluna]

About a week ago Samuel David posted this about Jack Grayle
Link removed

And now these videos of Jack expressing some controversial comments have surfaced:

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What do people make of this?

 

[Yazata]

Just say what you want to say without linking to a YouTube serie, Facebook and Instagram..

 

[solyluna]

I want to have a conversation about this information that is emerging, which is pretty hard to do without linking to those sources. I'm trying to navigate my own feelings about interest in his work and concern. I'm curious how other people navigate these kinds of controversies, but again it's hard to explore without looking at these different sources.

 

[Beyond Everything]

I looked him up. He charges money for courses that teach you how to magically attract money lol

If you're that interested in what he teaches, just go to source material. Watching one of his videos, I don't psychically detect a great deal of -let's say- mana power there. Yes- with any real esoteric development, you can tell if someone has real juice or not.

 

[Yazata]

I want to have a conversation about this information that is emerging, which is pretty hard to do without linking to those sources. I'm trying to navigate my own feelings about interest in his work and concern. I'm curious how other people navigate these kinds of controversies, but again it's hard to explore without looking at these different sources.

Then give your opinion on what you have seen. You are now just dropping some links and wait for others to respond. That's not a conversation but being a spectator. You made this account just to post this so it's obvious you have something to say about it.

 

[Thee Nightfool]

I'd like to know why Jack is reading fucking Gordon Winterfield's book if his own arcana is allegedly so powerful, hahahaha.

 

[thepolestar]

Honestly, all of them are like that though. Samuel David is saying that Jack Grayle casts glamors, does binding spells, and deflects whistleblowers - and I really feel like this describes 99% of occult teachers and definitely the influencers!

So Jack Grayle is a garden variety control freak. Big deal, the real question should be - how do you notice when a teacher is like this, and are you willing to deal with his domination magic in order to take his classes, just because his classes are good? (Sometimes that risk is okay - I have dealt with teachers who were psychically attacking students, and I knew it, because they had valuable knowledge that I had no other way of learning.)

Literally ALL of them do this stuff though, it's not just Jack Grayle. The teachers who don't cast magic on students are the teachers who left public teaching and the public spiritual community. They have small, intimate covens built on trust, reciprocity, and shared values, they never advertise, and they'll never become famous.

 

[ashlesha]

I never really liked Jack Grayle, he always sounded so fake when speaking. His book Hekataeon got way too much praise against what is actually practical to work within it, and his courses are excessively expensive. But I do think he's really helped with the PGM-fad that is going around right now, and brought more popularity to the book so other people are interested in practicing it and sharing their own notes. That's sort of the role I see for occult influencers and course-teachers.

I read part of Samuel David's book Rod & Ring, but didn't take to it, so I don't know much about him either. I really don't like this sort of public cancelling, but if Grayle really showed up at David's door then LOL he should totally speak up about this creep!!!

Hopefully someone leaks PGM Praxis 2 & 3 courses now

 

[WonderFire]

My opinion is that only losers try to cancel others over private beefs.

 

[Durward]

To me, the measure is always "What can you actually do?" So, if they fail the show me research, and are all talk, and are popular or wealthy, they are usually grifter con artists, which is also a skill. Influencers often also have a skill. If they didn't, people wouldn't actually follow them in droves.
They often use similar rhetoric, sometimes the Barnum effect is used on people, or love bombing, isolation, gas lighting, and more with a complete lack of humility. They will promote their own materials, and themselves, while bashing others. They often make claims that they can see through some veil and that you have to join or pay to learn how. They usually have some conspiracy nonsense that is too close to reality for comfort, but draws in people on the fringe. They recruit, and they spread whatever they are into like a disease.
These are all big red flags to people who want independence and freedom, and want to control their own fate and powers.
The main characteristic is control and focus. They will claim things like "my way is best" or "I know some truth" but will have all sorts of excuses when put on the spot to demonstrate anything they claim. They are all grifters, and greed pigs.
Don't be a lemming.

 

[Thee Nightfool]

$600 for Grayle's new PGM cohort. Join now! Seats limited! hahahaha

Post automatically merged: Apr 12, 2026

My opinion is that only losers try to cancel others over private beefs.

Yeah, this whole thing is absolutely pathetic, and why I have nothing to do with the "scene" anymore (not that I ever really did).

 

[diskrete]

Jack Grayle seems to take the similiar approach as Jason Miller, having started as a genuine practitoner and turning into commercial "content producer."

 

[borbponderer]

Never heard of him until five minutes ago but a quick google tell me he looks like a douchebag, and almost certainly is a douchebag. But so what? I have less than zero interest in these types.

Alright, I just replied here, so obviously some nasty part of me loves the dirt and gossip, but whatevs

Anyway, fk that guy. I hope he's just spent a fortune on some fancy new car, and the herring gulls spend all day crapping all over it for sport. Really nasty and corrosive herring gull craps. How about that for a curse?

 

[Gato branco]

I didn't get it. I watched the YouTube videos. It seems he is more right wing. Is this the issue?

 

[stellarjourneyman]

Honestly, all of them are like that though. Samuel David is saying that Jack Grayle casts glamors, does binding spells, and deflects whistleblowers - and I really feel like this describes 99% of occult teachers and definitely the influencers!

So Jack Grayle is a garden variety control freak. Big deal, the real question should be - how do you notice when a teacher is like this, and are you willing to deal with his domination magic in order to take his classes, just because his classes are good? (Sometimes that risk is okay - I have dealt with teachers who were psychically attacking students, and I knew it, because they had valuable knowledge that I had no other way of learning.)

Literally ALL of them do this stuff though, it's not just Jack Grayle. The teachers who don't cast magic on students are the teachers who left public teaching and the public spiritual community. They have small, intimate covens built on trust, reciprocity, and shared values, they never advertise, and they'll never become famous.

I'm with you for most of this, but I'll always marvel at the people that prefer anonymous, poor teachers for practical magic when their practical magic skills are far from apparent given their circumstances.

If you are worried that taking a course makes you a lemming, you are far more susceptible than most, I'll say, lol.

But I get why people feel weird about Grayle. He is a Shakespearean actor and a lawyer, so he sounds fake to people. His "magic for the marginalized" bit rings very false given he seems fairly pro-police (though most of what I saw there was just him calling a law impractical). With that said, he makes discounts and scholarships widely available for his courses and I hear he's good to work for, and that counts for a lot.

The thing that bothers me is the getting a 19 year old pregnant accusation, but the only thing we've got on him there is Samuel Davids who looks like he's crashing out in pure occultist style. Joshua Gadbois was definitely crashing out when he chimed in. Saying "my wife had an online affair with a guy with certain sexual proclivities when she was dealing with my alcoholism" is not the look he thinks it is, though I respect his work.

Don't know. Not particularly swayed by the paranoiac "everyone who sells occultist courses is bad" rhetoric on this forum. Don't think the accusations, beyond the one listed, seem particularly credible. If you want what's available in Jack's courses, you can pretty easily just put in the hours yourself to research the PGM and the Coffin Texts, but a lot of people appreciate a teacher and the community built around courses, and there's a lot of science that shows that helps you learn things. That's all I've got.

 

[Philomagus]

I never really liked Jack Grayle, he always sounded so fake when speaking. His book Hekataeon got way too much praise against what is actually practical to work within it, and his courses are excessively expensive. But I do think he's really helped with the PGM-fad that is going around right now, and brought more popularity to the book so other people are interested in practicing it and sharing their own notes. That's sort of the role I see for occult influencers and course-teachers.

I read part of Samuel David's book Rod & Ring, but didn't take to it, so I don't know much about him either. I really don't like this sort of public cancelling, but if Grayle really showed up at David's door then LOL he should totally speak up about this creep!!!

Hopefully someone leaks PGM Praxis 2 & 3 courses now

@ashlesha : where is the link for PGM Praxis 1?

 

[Beyond Everything]

the paranoiac "everyone who sells occultist courses is bad" rhetoric on this forum.

How is it 'paranoid' to note that if someone's money magic was so effective, they'd just use it to amass a lot of money without needing to teach people?

If someone with real power is interested in teaching, btw, they find worthy students. They aren't just accessible to anyone with a credit card. Oh hey, another occult delusion exploded.

 

[stellarjourneyman]

How is it 'paranoid' to note that if someone's money magic was so effective, they'd just use it to amass a lot of money without needing to teach people?

For a lot of people, how you make money is as important as how much you make. It's hard to make money as an occultist--it's like making money as a musician or similar. Therefore, if you do well with an occultist main or side hustle, it's impressive.

A lot of these people don't "need" to teach people publicly, they want to do so because it's fulfilling.

If someone with real power is interested in teaching, btw, they find worthy students. They aren't just accessible to anyone with a credit card. Oh hey, another occult delusion exploded.

Sure, that's the case for many. It's also the case that many of these people languish in obscurity for a reason. Their magic isn't that great.

Just find a teacher you vibe with and stress test your magic.