Law of Attraction

[Butterfly Affect]

How much merit does it have? Is it just a lower form of magic, or is it just completely ineffective by itself?

 

[Beyond Everything]

How much merit does it have? Is it just a lower form of magic, or is it just completely ineffective by itself?

Why don't you try visualizing consistently for a goal and seeing for yourself.

Yes it works. Not always, but it can work startling well. It's not an iron-clad 'law' though, it's an ability humans have.

I've seen some occultists say it doesn't work. Some of them are selling products, so quelle surprise.

 

[Firetree]

How much merit does it have? Is it just a lower form of magic, or is it just completely ineffective by itself?

That depends on your take on it . If you have your own understanding of it , as said above ; try it out and tabulate the results , trying to be objective about recording them .


If it is about the books and authors of that title .... fyi ;

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[Robert Ramsay]

It is a form of magic, just like praying is a form of magic. But it's so loose and floppy that you have a wide range of things that could cause it to fail. They talk about the Universe giving you what you want without any proper notion of intent. They wrap it in pseudo-scientific bullshit which confuses things even further.

If you are a magician anyway, then sure, it will probably work for you. If you are not, and let's face it, that's their audience, then you'll probably have about the same success rate as praying, i.e. low.

Undoubtedly, the people who wrote the books stumbled on a way to do magic. But, like many before them, they mistook the map for the territory, i.e. they think that their 'system' is the important thing, and not how you use it.

 

[Beyond Everything]

It is a form of magic, just like praying is a form of magic.

Let's bear in mind the enormous number of people who pray versus using mind manifesting techniques.

But it's so loose and floppy that you have a wide range of things that could cause it to fail.
They talk about the Universe giving you what you want without any proper notion of intent. They wrap it in pseudo-scientific bullshit which confuses things even further.

Mind manifesting actually often gives you greater scope for success, it's not as dependent on using what's in your 'sphere of influence'- the way other kinds of magic are. You're likelier to get things outside the probability scale vs working with 'spirits'. It can instigate far-reaching chains of effects beyond what regular magic does.

I don't know what 'proper notion of intent' means. Mind manifesting works by embodying the success through visualization and/or emotion. There's no additional intent needed

As far as pseudo-scientific bs, I mean talking about spiritual entities is hardly scientific either. It's even less so arguably.

If you are a magician anyway, then sure, it will probably work for you. If you are not, and let's face it, that's their audience, then you'll probably have about the same success rate as praying, i.e. low.

Most people using mind manifesting are not trained magicians. Anecdotally there are plenty of people claiming success, and that has been true throughout the New Thought days, into the 1970s and further on. Billions of people are praying in comparison, so if they had the same rate of success youd have a lot more answered prayers lol

Undoubtedly, the people who wrote the books stumbled on a way to do magic. But, like many before them, they mistook the map for the territory, i.e. they think that their 'system' is the important thing, and not how you use it.

There's barely any system at all. As I said, it's just embodying the achieved goal.

 

[Firetree]

There are better 'magical pathways' to achieve things though ..... if that interests you , butterfly .

 

[Morell]

Of course law of attraction works. When we do magic to get something, we use it.

There are way to use it that works, and than there are ways... like the scam movie The Secret...

 

[Robert Ramsay]

I don't know what 'proper notion of intent' means. Mind manifesting works by embodying the success through visualization and/or emotion. There's no additional intent needed

What I meant was the correct statement of intent ("It is" as opposed to "I want") and also "Gee, I hope this works" syndrome where your intent is actually replaced by "Gee, I hope this works". Avoiding the latter is a very important magical skill.

Most people using mind manifesting are not trained magicians.

Well, precisely.

Anecdotally there are plenty of people claiming success, and that has been true throughout the New Thought days, into the 1970s and further on. Billions of people are praying in comparison, so if they had the same rate of success youd have a lot more answered prayers lol

A good point, assuming the failure rate is the same amongst pray-ers as it is amongst manifesters. My thoughts on this now rev off into my own work, so I state in advance that I'm not expecting anyone to come with me on this.

The way I look at it would be that there may have been large numbers of successes on both sides, but we do not share more than a small percentage of timelines with 'success outcomes'. Other versions of us will be in the same set as other success outcomes, but (because of the large sample size) any one version of any one person will only be able to observe up to X successes from people in their set, where X will be quite a modest number. If this were not the case, the Law of Averages would be more like the Heavy Suggestion of Averages

Of course it's a bit more complicated than that, as Ben Goldacre is found of saying - there are many people out there you have never interacted with, and are basically indeterminate with respect to you. If you made a special effort to travel the world, looking for people with successful outcomes, you would start finding more of them, because that would be your intent, which would lead to, if you talked to everyone in the world, a value for X which was larger than the actual value of X

Like I said, I'm not here to convince you, but this is the way I look at it.

 

[Beyond Everything]

What I meant was the correct statement of intent ("It is" as opposed to "I want") and also "Gee, I hope this works" syndrome where your intent is actually replaced by "Gee, I hope this works". Avoiding the latter is a very important magical skill.

ok , yes, totally

Well, precisely.


A good point, assuming the failure rate is the same amongst pray-ers as it is amongst manifesters. My thoughts on this now rev off into my own work, so I state in advance that I'm not expecting anyone to come with me on this.

The way I look at it would be that there may have been large numbers of successes on both sides, but we do not share more than a small percentage of timelines with 'success outcomes'. Other versions of us will be in the same set as other success outcomes, but (because of the large sample size) any one version of any one person will only be able to observe up to X successes from people in their set, where X will be quite a modest number. If this were not the case, the Law of Averages would be more like the Heavy Suggestion of Averages

Of course it's a bit more complicated than that, as Ben Goldacre is found of saying - there are many people out there you have never interacted with, and are basically indeterminate with respect to you. If you made a special effort to travel the world, looking for people with successful outcomes, you would start finding more of them, because that would be your intent, which would lead to, if you talked to everyone in the world, a value for X which was larger than the actual value of X

Like I said, I'm not here to convince you, but this is the way I look at it.

Well it's interesting. I could ask a bunch of questions but I guess what I would really want to know is if this actually changes one's approach or adds any new kinds of practices.

 

[Adelina]

"Law of Attraction" is highly degenerate form of Sympathy (which is sometimes called "Sympathetic Magic"). It is actually the science on itself. It also requires learning a lot of things, doing a lot of things, connecting a lot of things. It is one of main pillars of Witchcraft.

If you simply sit in your armchair and visualize things you won't get far...

 

[Aldebaran]

The Law of Attraction. <sigh> [puts down tea and quietly walks away].

I'm kidding. I would call it a combination of hope and karma with little real-world effort.

There are better 'magical pathways' to achieve things though ..... if that interests you , butterfly .

This. I'm not saying LoA is wrong or bad. It simply is that on the magick influencing reality scale it's closer to the bottom.

 

[Butterfly Affect]

I might work more on LoA since making conventional sigils seems to fatigue me quickly. Maybe there's a different remedy for that though, I don't know.

 

[AbammonTheGreat]

I might work more on LoA since making conventional sigils seems to fatigue me quickly. Maybe there's a different remedy for that though, I don't know.

LoA should be used in tandem with regular magical practice. Magic is threefold Micro, Macro, and Fulcrum. LOA, NLP, and Chaos Magic work on the subconscious and psyche which is one third of the puzzle, the hermetic arts work on the macrocosm, and invocation/evocation/liminal skills are the fulcrum. When youre doing magic you should be aligning all three into one focused expression of your Will. Doing sigils without the subconscious programming makes a dead sigil, and doing LOA without magical timing or atunemenet isnt going to work its just wishful thinking.

 

[Firetree]

Of course law of attraction works. When we do magic to get something, we use it.

There are way to use it that works, and than there are ways... like the scam movie The Secret...

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[therootbeersprite]

If you simply sit in your armchair and visualize things you won't get far...

Exactly this. Intention is important. But intention without action is useless.

 

[Beyond Everything]

This. I'm not saying LoA is wrong or bad. It simply is that on the magick influencing reality scale it's closer to the bottom.

lol sure it is

I've achieved the following solely using visualizing/imagining the achieved result-

Multiple healings
Multiple drawings of money (not a few hundred or a few thousand, either)
Relationships
Even a free vacation

Now, many of these were after I was involved in esoteric training, but a few were early on when I was not doing much of anything as far as development. I should also add these were not things I put forth material effort to achieve, either.

I've told completely untrained people about this, and witnessed them achieve desired goals using mental manifestation as well.

Either you're experienced in these matters, or you're not. We have many of the latter here.

Exactly this. Intention is important. But intention without action is useless.

Really? How do curses work then? lol