Let's discuss horary astrology

[PracticingGeomancer]

As my username might give away, I have a soft spot for divinaton.

It all started more than 5 years ago, when I started deep-diving into tarot. I used to offer free readings on reddit and other platforms regularly, until I realized I was (almost) never getting any feedback, so it wasn't really giving me much good practice (since I seldom get to know the accuracy of my readings). I kept reading for myself regularly, and for my partner at times.

At one point I got really into geomancy, and that was the first method that showed me how nice it is to not rely so much on intuition: you follow the rules, understand the figures and the house, and you've got your answer. And it's usually more straightforward than what tarot gives. I rarely use tarot today for questions, but mostly use it for self reflection and less concrete insights (also for creative writing).

Geomancy was kind of a gateway, as it's very much based on astrological concepts (the houses, aspects). So the jump to horary astrology happened quite naturally. Geomancy still holds a special place for me, and I basically always have on me all I need to quickly cast a geomantic chart when needed. But horary astrology captured my curiosity. I read Frawley's "The Horary Textbook" a year or so ago, and after grasping the basics and casting charts for a month or so, I kind of put my horary studies on hold, to dedicate myself to other practices (chaos magick, grimoires, pathworkings, ...).

Recently my interest for horary astology has been rekindled, and I would really like to continue learning. I see the road ahead of me as divided into two: theory and practice.

Theory: what should I read beyond Frawley? I'm currently reading Frawley's "The Real Astrology" as well as Avelar and Rubeiro's "Traditional Astrology Course" and "On the heavenly spheres" (they're basically a coursebook and its textbook). I guess once done with those the naural way forward (or, chronologically, backwards) would be to read Lilly, Bonatti, and all other "classics" all the way back to Ptolemy. Is there anything else worth reading that I might be missing?

Practice: I would really like to find a way to regularly receive queries I can cast charts for, free of charge. I'm really not keen on using big platforms such as reddit, as that leads to one-time queries I will never get any feedback on. Ideally I'd have some recurring querents that would keep me updated on the outcomes of my predictions. Nobody who knows me afk (except my partner) knows I dabble in divination or magic.

So, here comes this thread.

What's your experience with horary astrology? What are your must-read books? Do you have any suggestion on my plan forward, both theory and practice? Also, let's discuss horary in general, our experience with it, approaches, etc.

p.s.

I'm not sure I am allowed to offer free readings here, so I'll leave it as an open question for the moderators of this forum. I'll gladly do that if that's ok

 

[Wexilarious]

You should read nothing, you can use chatgpt to get reading according to all books you will found

But it's just not true since it doesn't gave exact results of what person personality are (sometimes it's very close to the truth, sometimes it's 50% true, sometimes it's all a complete lie), It took me about nine months to rediscover how natal charts actually work. I won't share it, but I can read chart of someone

You can see how information about all the old reading methods has been removed (Da Vinci, and others)

 

[enterthedragon369]

I've had a few horary astrology reads done with Renaissance Astrology as well as other type readings. Christoper Warnok. I Was more than surprised with the detail and accuracy the guidance, and the outcomes. I don't have any must read books. I think Horary astrology is a very serious study I can't commit to. But I'm drawn to the guidance. IF moderators allow you to cast you charts, that would be amazing. I don't think it
is always an exact read , depending on the type of read. But reads are pretty close considering the um, popular light reads. I used to go after.

 

[AbammonTheGreat]

You should read nothing, you can use chatgpt to get reading according to all books you will found

But it's just not true since it doesn't gave exact results of what person personality are (sometimes it's very close to the truth, sometimes it's 50% true, sometimes it's all a complete lie), It took me about nine months to rediscover how natal charts actually work. I won't share it, but I can read chart of someone

You can see how information about all the old reading methods has been removed (Da Vinci, and others)

I implore you to ask chatGPT what zodiac sign Saturn is in at the moment and then go check. That AI cant give you today's positions let alone the complex calculations that go into horary. It was a LANGUAGE model, it is good at constructing sentences it is not good at the substance behind the sentences.

 

[PracticingGeomancer]

You should read nothing, you can use chatgpt

Thanks, but no thanks.

So since I haven't got an explicit permission to offer readings on the forum, I will share a chart I cast yesterday, with interpretation and outcome.

Querent:

me

Question:

will we (my job) get the new contract I'm interested in?

Background:

(I'll keep it vague, but relevant) At my job we work for a government agency (but we're a private company), so every year we need to apply for certain "contracts" (not really 100% correct, but for the sake of this chart it's close enough). This year one of the contracts in particular was of interest to me. I cast this chart the day before the decision would be made public, in the afternoon, so the decision had presumably already been made upstream.

Chart:

Interpretation:

As this question came to me as a "we" question (would "we" get the contract), and not "will my employer get the contract", my job's significator (and mine) is Lord 1, with the Asc in Leo we are the Sun.

I did not consider the Moon as a co-significator for the querent, as the querent is not me, but "we"

When I originally cast the chart I didn't think about looking at Lord 2 as "our" money. Anyway, that's also the Sun. .

The customer is part of the government, so they are signified by Lord 10, Mars. I will also take the customer's money (Lord 2 turned from 10, so radical Lord 11) signified by Venus.

All 3 our significators are quite close to each other, in Capricorn and in the 6th house.

The Sun at 22 Cap 26 shows we have no power in the matter, we're actually peregrine. Essential dignity isn't much better, as we're in a weak house (H6).

As for Venus, at 23 Cap 52 is also peregrine. It's in the 6th house, again weak, and combust. Yikes.
Mars at 21 Cap 40 is exalted, and in its own term and face. Still accidentally debilitated in the 6th house, and combust.

I looked at antiscia, but came back none the wiser.

We were prepared to a decrease in accepted contracts this year, so the essential and accidental dignities make sense with the situation. The customer is still doing good (Mars essentially dignified), but doesn't have power to act, maybe because their budget (Venus) doesn't shows any power either.

Reception doesn't show much (or at least I can't see it), beyond we and the customer both liking the customer's money.

I could have stopped the reading here and give a sound "no" as an answer, had I been more detached from the question. Nobody here has power to act, not much will happen.

But I tried to look at aspects, hoping to find something there.

All 3 significators come straight from an opposition from Jupiter as their latest aspect. As for coming aspects, Venus is going to sextile Saturn, as is the Sun, while Mars will conjunct Mercury once the latter catches up to the former.

On the day I performed the reading, I incorporated Jupiter's collection of light with all 3 significators as showing something happened. I interpreted it as something related to Lord 9 or Lord 5 (both ruled by Jupiter in the chart). I had a theory for this collection of light, it kind of made sense to me. It made the judgement go to a "yes", despite all the negative

Outcome:
We didn't get that specific contact, so my judgement was wrong.

"Hindsight is 20/20":
The collection of light shouldn't have tipped the judgement, and I realize I mixed in a dose of wishful-thinking with my judgement. That collection of light really made sense to me then, though.

In hindsight, I think the collection of light between usand the customer shows 2 events: we sending in the application, and them taking a decision on it. Both in the past. How did it go? Everyone's combust by a peregrine Sun, in house 6. How could I ever lean towards "yes"?

What I learned:

Keep it simple.​

​

Always come to the reading grounded, remind myself beforehand to accept whatever the chart throws at me, and read it with some distance.​

​

Hope this is an interesting exercise for other people beside me

 

[Aldebaran]

I'm new to this site, but as an occultist, I believe you don't need anyone's permission to read their chart. If that person wants you to give them a reading, then you should do it.

That said, there's still a minimum number of posts required to send and receive DMs.

Historically, Horary has tended to attract skepticism. It's rarely correct, but bold predictions are often made.

This is just my opinion and intuition. I have studied horary, and at best, a good astrologer can read the astrological weather patterns and make a guess. That's the best you can do. Astrological forces aren't even as predictable or stable as the weather. Maybe they are, but they sure don't seem like it. Either way, you're dealing with very complex and shifting energies, then trying to predict how they influence reality and produce a predictable outcome. There are a lot of moving parts energetically.

It's kind of like investing in the stock market—some people are better at it than others, but everyone is still guessing.

Horary is the weak link in astrology imo. btw, I'm not saying this to dissuade you in any way. You asked for opinions on Horary and this is mine with experience.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 8:13 PM

The Horary Textbook (Revised Edition) by John Frawley

I believe this is the text we used in my Horary classes.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 8:16 PM

The Martial Art of Horary Astrology by Lee Lehman is also very good

 

[PracticingGeomancer]

The Martial Art of Horary Astrology by Lee Lehman is also very good

Thanks for the tip, I've added it to the read list

Which horary classes did you take?

This is just my opinion and intuition. I have studied horary, and at best, a good astrologer can read the astrological weather patterns and make a guess. That's the best you can do. Astrological forces aren't even as predictable or stable as the weather. Maybe they are, but they sure don't seem like it.

My intention is actually to go all chaos-magicky on this and just track what works (if it works). As I said I've started again with horary quite recently after a hiatus (and before the hiatus I was just beginning with it), but in my very limited experience with horary my judgements are wrong due to my technique. Like with hindsight the judgement is quite apparent from the chart often (see the example above I posted earlier), but for me it's too early to sound too convinced. My intention is to experiment with this though.

 

[Wexilarious]

I implore you to ask chatGPT what zodiac sign Saturn is in at the moment and then go check. That AI cant give you today's positions let alone the complex calculations that go into horary. It was a LANGUAGE model, it is good at constructing sentences it is not good at the substance behind the sentences.

Here, Chatgpt was able to determine where it is from a photo

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 9:00 PM

Thanks, but no thanks.

So since I haven't got an explicit permission to offer readings on the forum, I will share a chart I cast yesterday, with interpretation and outcome.

Querent:

me

Question:

will we (my job) get the new contract I'm interested in?

Background:

(I'll keep it vague, but relevant) At my job we work for a government agency (but we're a private company), so every year we need to apply for certain "contracts" (not really 100% correct, but for the sake of this chart it's close enough). This year one of the contracts in particular was of interest to me. I cast this chart the day before the decision would be made public, in the afternoon, so the decision had presumably already been made upstream.

Chart:

Interpretation:

As this question came to me as a "we" question (would "we" get the contract), and not "will my employer get the contract", my job's significator (and mine) is Lord 1, with the Asc in Leo we are the Sun.

I did not consider the Moon as a co-significator for the querent, as the querent is not me, but "we"

When I originally cast the chart I didn't think about looking at Lord 2 as "our" money. Anyway, that's also the Sun. .

The customer is part of the government, so they are signified by Lord 10, Mars. I will also take the customer's money (Lord 2 turned from 10, so radical Lord 11) signified by Venus.

All 3 our significators are quite close to each other, in Capricorn and in the 6th house.

The Sun at 22 Cap 26 shows we have no power in the matter, we're actually peregrine. Essential dignity isn't much better, as we're in a weak house (H6).

As for Venus, at 23 Cap 52 is also peregrine. It's in the 6th house, again weak, and combust. Yikes.
Mars at 21 Cap 40 is exalted, and in its own term and face. Still accidentally debilitated in the 6th house, and combust.

I looked at antiscia, but came back none the wiser.

We were prepared to a decrease in accepted contracts this year, so the essential and accidental dignities make sense with the situation. The customer is still doing good (Mars essentially dignified), but doesn't have power to act, maybe because their budget (Venus) doesn't shows any power either.

Reception doesn't show much (or at least I can't see it), beyond we and the customer both liking the customer's money.

I could have stopped the reading here and give a sound "no" as an answer, had I been more detached from the question. Nobody here has power to act, not much will happen.

But I tried to look at aspects, hoping to find something there.

All 3 significators come straight from an opposition from Jupiter as their latest aspect. As for coming aspects, Venus is going to sextile Saturn, as is the Sun, while Mars will conjunct Mercury once the latter catches up to the former.

On the day I performed the reading, I incorporated Jupiter's collection of light with all 3 significators as showing something happened. I interpreted it as something related to Lord 9 or Lord 5 (both ruled by Jupiter in the chart). I had a theory for this collection of light, it kind of made sense to me. It made the judgement go to a "yes", despite all the negative

Outcome:
We didn't get that specific contact, so my judgement was wrong.

"Hindsight is 20/20":
The collection of light shouldn't have tipped the judgement, and I realize I mixed in a dose of wishful-thinking with my judgement. That collection of light really made sense to me then, though.

In hindsight, I think the collection of light between usand the customer shows 2 events: we sending in the application, and them taking a decision on it. Both in the past. How did it go? Everyone's combust by a peregrine Sun, in house 6. How could I ever lean towards "yes"?

What I learned:

Keep it simple.​

​

Always come to the reading grounded, remind myself beforehand to accept whatever the chart throws at me, and read it with some distance.​

​

​

​

Hope this is an interesting exercise for other people beside me

Since this comment was partly a response to me

I believe everything works completely differently and there's no natal chart of answer, only a daily chart

Now everyone is more ambitious and energetic because their daily chart maximizes this

Result: (Person's natal chart + daily chart) : 2 = something in between your characteristics and what happens that day

 

[PracticingGeomancer]

Here, Chatgpt was able to determine where it is from a photo

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

That's not the same thing though, the question was:

I implore you to ask chatGPT what zodiac sign Saturn is in at the moment and then go check

Which is not: "let chatgpt find saturn in a given chart". But that might just be a minimal detail, given a chart it actually answered correctly about the position of Saturn. In the spirit of not letting my prejudice towards AI get the better of me, I would actually like to listen to you @Wexilarious, and to propose an exeperiment: we take the same chart for the same query, whose outcome is unknown beforehand (and which will resolve relatively quickly, for the sake of time) and let me (or anyone else who would like to try) and chatgpt give a judgement each. Then we see who was closer.

I'm still very much a beginner at horary, as my example above shows I will probably get it wrong, but I'd like to see what an LLM says about a horary chart.

To be 100% honest with you: I have 0 trust in an LLM performing any form of divination.

Another interesting experiment would be to let the LLM cast the chart too, just asking a horary question and see what comes out of it, once instructions to cast and interpret a chart are given.

I believe everything works completely differently and there's no natal chart of answer, only a daily chart

Sounds like you don't really believe in horary per se.

 

[Wexilarious]

That's not the same thing though, the question was:

Which is not: "let chatgpt find saturn in a given chart". But that might just be a minimal detail, given a chart it actually answered correctly about the position of Saturn. In the spirit of not letting my prejudice towards AI get the better of me, I would actually like to listen to you @Wexilarious, and to propose an exeperiment: we take the same chart for the same query, whose outcome is unknown beforehand (and which will resolve relatively quickly, for the sake of time) and let me (or anyone else who would like to try) and chatgpt give a judgement each. Then we see who was closer.

I'm still very much a beginner at horary, as my example above shows I will probably get it wrong, but I'd like to see what an LLM says about a horary chart.

To be 100% honest with you: I have 0 trust in an LLM performing any form of divination.

Another interesting experiment would be to let the LLM cast the chart too, just asking a horary question and see what comes out of it, once instructions to cast and interpret a chart are given.

I didn't say that AI is better, AI has simply scanned all the books you can find on this topic and is drawing its own conclusions based on them, as if from a template, without having any experience (thanks to which you will most likely come to better conclusions)

But I want to say, if everything in these books were true, then experience wouldn't be necessary, and you could simply use templates to draw the right conclusions with a 100% probability

Sounds like you don't really believe in horary per se.

Yes, because I simplified the natal charts, and as a result, all the answers for that day will have the same natal chart (in my understanding)

Trying to do everything with one tool doesn't make sense when there are others more suitable for the task