[Opinion] Linguistic and Spiritual verification

[Angelkesfarl]

The Fundamental Problem of Esoteric Nomenclature: A Call for Linguistic and Spiritual Verification
This concern you raise is arguably the most critical and least addressed issue in practical occultism, spanning both the Eastern and Western traditions.

The core of the problem lies in the single, undeniable fact: The differences in the spelling, transliteration, or even the very description of a singular entity (Divine, Angelic, or Demonic) are inconsistent across various manuscripts and cultural traditions.

For instance, whether we examine the differences in a name transliterated from ancient Hebrew/Aramaic into Greek, Latin, and finally English—or whether we compare a Persian magical name to its potential root in Akkadian—the linguistic variances are stark and cannot be dismissed as mere typographical errors.

This is a state that is unacceptable for the serious practitioner, because logically, one specific spelling or pronunciation must be inherently more correct and possess greater efficacious power than the others.

 

[Yazata]

Moved this into a new thread.
I agree with this, and believe there are instances where a characteristic ascribed to a spirit came from the (mis)spelling of its name when it got transcribed.
Amateur occult etymology is one of my hobbies.

 

[Omee]

The core of the problem lies in the single, undeniable fact: The differences in the spelling, transliteration, or even the very description of a singular entity (Divine, Angelic, or Demonic) are inconsistent across various manuscripts and cultural traditions.

all symbols are different from the thing they represent. The map is not the territory. The menu is not the food. Faith in and of itself is mostly what matters
Tibetans butcher sacred seed syllables and still get results, Shingon Buddhism butcher the Sanskrit and still get results.


I don't think pronunciation matters too much, given how many mantras have been mispronounced over the millenia. One Tibetan text I read about Vajrayogini went into explicit detail about her seed syllables, one of which is Lam, however Tibetans can't pronounce L sounds, and so for a thousand years they've been saying Bam instead.

Evidently they get results, even mispronouncing sacred syllables.

This is a state that is unacceptable for the serious practitioner, because logically, one specific spelling or pronunciation must be inherently more correct and possess greater efficacious power than the others.

Yes, there's one that is technically correct, but I like something something similar to umm error correction in QR code as an analogy. You can probably still scan the QR code below, and that's what is similar in this situation, as long as you have a connection back to the spirit in some way or capacity then there's "error correction" code to our spiritual connection and assuming that there's no grace in our work would lead us to obsess over this part.

My friend shared this with me like a year ago from now, related to this topic:

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This is one place it actually works; no one praying in a county church on Sunday morning is going to invoke a demon through amen==Amun, nor will you get an angel of sweetness and light getting supremely pissed off ramping up to conjure a curse demon.

I think it is related to allowing some grace in the whole situation, treating the world mechanically would make the world treat you mechanically and treating the world gracefully would treat you gracefully, if it is A-B-C then the world would expect you to follow the same logic of A-B-C, that's why pronouncing a mantra with correct sounds is important because you don't know who that person who's approaching the spirit is really is or who the spirit is really is so if you play the etymology game then the spirits will play the etymology game with you.

Ring the phone - wrong number
Ring the phone - right number
Doesn't ring - wrong number
Doesn't ring - right number

Now...are they a different spirits from Akkadian to Persian? I don't really know, but acting more easy on yourself with the pronunciation would give you more leeway and not get hit/marked by the need for proper pronunciation.

 

[Angelkesfarl]

I do not believe that by liberating ourselves from the correct names we will achieve true success. I reiterate: if I called you 'Halumi' or searched for you under the name 'Jerome,' would I find you? Furthermore, I believe it is disrespectful to the spirit to call it by a name other than its own, and perhaps you would summon someone else. Indeed, let me take from your own words to answer you: Is it possible or reasonable to say 'Amoun' instead of 'Amen' (Ameen)? Will we receive the blessing of God, or will we incur His curse? Finally, regarding the drawing of sigils: Is it reasonable to draw a sigil incorrectly and then expect success from its angel or the manifestation of its daemon? In all cases, the true name is like the original product, and the rest are imitations that never measure up to the authentic source and do not resemble its composition or spiritual structure.

 

[SerpentBakery]

Are names conduits? Yes. But the true names, those which hold "most effectiveness", are utterly unspeakable and more akin to concepts than anything that can even be written down with letters. Names in manuscripts and the like are like doors towards that which they reference.

Now, are there better doors than others? Yes, absolutely, but "better" in this instance has two sides:
1. Does it make sense/is it structurally and symbolically coherent within its context?
2. Does it actually match with YOUR spiritual constitution more than another name does?

For example, 1 implies that you can't just call God "goo-goo-ga-ga", nor can you call him something stupid like "Katy Perry". Because it does not make contextual nor symbolic sense. Number 2 implies that the potency of names isn't a "one size fits all" deal, because we all have different spiritual constitutions and spiritual influences/predispositions hanging over us. For example, I know that the Aten and Sol are roughly equivalent as deities.... but Sol works much less for me than Aten, because seemingly my spiritual constitution most naturally leans towards that which ancient Egyptian spirituality represented (liminal, the reconciliation of Saturn with the Sun, serpents as doom and guardians both, and so on). I didn't choose this, but it resonates with me most. So, then, does this imply that "Sol" is worse than "Aten"? Or simply that... I do not connect with the conduit of "Sol" as well as I do with the conduit of "Aten", by nature?

But what if Aten's name was, say, lost or distorted? It most certainly was at some point, if I had to guess. So, then, how do we reconcile this? Simple. We realise that the name is the door, not the corridor we walk through nor is it the destination. Therefore, we can reasonably still address Aten as long as we have the concept of the Aten within our heads. We don't need the name, though the name is very useful up to a certain point/within a certain crowd of people.

But if you get hung up on doors and their appearances, you won't really get anywhere. Amun's name still acts as a good conduit for example, though it has been very much distorted throughout history. But his truest name is not Amun, not anything close to it structurally. Amun - the Hidden One - is simply a reference to a part of his nature. That is why his name being distorted doesn't affect things as long as you are speaking to the concept of Amun, and not just the name "Amun".

Tl;dr: names of entities are like human beings going "that God" instead of "almighty-one-keeper-of-X-and-swallower-of-Y-whomst-illuminates-the-faces-of-the-living-and-the-dead-and [....so on....]".

So, really OP, are you going to keep arguing about which door is the finest in its antiquity and present state, or will you walk through the one that sings back to you when you finally acknowledge it? Name corruptions really don't matter as much as you think they do. If I want to worship the Sun, the Sun exists even if no human being gave it a name. You are praying to the concept itself, the very light, not just the label the light and the concept carry within our cultures. Heaven does not end nor begin on Earth or the mouths of mortal men.

 

[Morell]

This is interesting dilema, the correct way to read the names of spirits. I would probably go for humble way, to summon the spirit with the name that I got and then ask the spirit if I say it right or how should I say it. Ti helps. It's funny, You can work with Loki and say his name in two completely valid ways. in English the "O" is said as in soul. but it can also be said as in boring. Though if you say it long, Looooki, at least he protested when I was doing that.

I assume, that spirits get used to it when people change their language and start pronouncing their names different. life is change, so even change of their name is part of it. I believe that a lot of problems can be solved by good communication. Also spirits don't seem too offended, when you start giving them nicknames, for one reason or the other. It is definitely not uncommon for a spirit to have more names. Some important spirts have many.

maybe also... new name might be also of help to spirit to adjust to a current time. sort of part of adaptation in everchanging world.

 

[Angelkesfarl]

Are names conduits? Yes. But the true names, those which hold "most effectiveness", are utterly unspeakable and more akin to concepts than anything that can even be written down with letters. Names in manuscripts and the like are like doors towards that which they reference.

Now, are there better doors than others? Yes, absolutely, but "better" in this instance has two sides:
1. Does it make sense/is it structurally and symbolically coherent within its context?
2. Does it actually match with YOUR spiritual constitution more than another name does?

For example, 1 implies that you can't just call God "goo-goo-ga-ga", nor can you call him something stupid like "Katy Perry". Because it does not make contextual nor symbolic sense. Number 2 implies that the potency of names isn't a "one size fits all" deal, because we all have different spiritual constitutions and spiritual influences/predispositions hanging over us. For example, I know that the Aten and Sol are roughly equivalent as deities.... but Sol works much less for me than Aten, because seemingly my spiritual constitution most naturally leans towards that which ancient Egyptian spirituality represented (liminal, the reconciliation of Saturn with the Sun, serpents as doom and guardians both, and so on). I didn't choose this, but it resonates with me most. So, then, does this imply that "Sol" is worse than "Aten"? Or simply that... I do not connect with the conduit of "Sol" as well as I do with the conduit of "Aten", by nature?

But what if Aten's name was, say, lost or distorted? It most certainly was at some point, if I had to guess. So, then, how do we reconcile this? Simple. We realise that the name is the door, not the corridor we walk through nor is it the destination. Therefore, we can reasonably still address Aten as long as we have the concept of the Aten within our heads. We don't need the name, though the name is very useful up to a certain point/within a certain crowd of people.

But if you get hung up on doors and their appearances, you won't really get anywhere. Amun's name still acts as a good conduit for example, though it has been very much distorted throughout history. But his truest name is not Amun, not anything close to it structurally. Amun - the Hidden One - is simply a reference to a part of his nature. That is why his name being distorted doesn't affect things as long as you are speaking to the concept of Amun, and not just the name "Amun".

Tl;dr: names of entities are like human beings going "that God" instead of "almighty-one-keeper-of-X-and-swallower-of-Y-whomst-illuminates-the-faces-of-the-living-and-the-dead-and [....so on....]".

So, really OP, are you going to keep arguing about which door is the finest in its antiquity and present state, or will you walk through the one that sings back to you when you finally acknowledge it? Name corruptions really don't matter as much as you think they do. If I want to worship the Sun, the Sun exists even if no human being gave it a name. You are praying to the concept itself, the very light, not just the label the light and the concept carry within our cultures. Heaven does not end nor begin on Earth or the mouths of mortal men.

"I am not speaking merely about the name of the spirit; rather, I mean the Power Names that direct that spirit or open the pathway to it. What I know, based on my own experience and that of all practitioners working with me, is that when you connect with these names and perfect their correct pronunciation, you unlock the oldest portals of reception, establishing genuine channels between yourself and the invoked spirit.

Even more critical is that when using the Enabling Names or Compulsion Names or Protection Names, mispronouncing these names can sometimes render them empty and completely worthless.

Furthermore, if you mention a god like Amun, is it permissible to confuse him with Aten? If matters were truly as simple as your words suggest, why was Tutankhaten’s name changed to Tutankhamun? Was it to appease Amun’s priests, who [it is believed] murdered the young man with a blow to the head? Why did the world turn against his father, Akhenaten, when he called for the worship of the sun alone, in your opinion?

What is the difference between Helios, Aten, Amun, and Ra? They are all manifestations of the Sun as a planet. If what you claim is correct, why do the names vary and the manifestations differ between one idol and another for their followers?

In the case of spirits, for example, Lucifer and Lucifuge: here, you are calling upon the same entity, but once by honoring him as the Bearer of Light and once by insulting him as the Hater of Light.

In our tradition, we consider the different local dialects as tools for reception. Spirits may recognize them and interact with them as actual linguistic shifts. A simple example: phonetic letters like 'shīn' (), 'sīn' (), and 'thāʾ' () are dialectical accents, but their efficacy depends on the spirit either confirming their use or having been bound by covenants to obey all of them (I speak here of the Power Names).

Otherwise, you will have no spiritual compulsion. The entity will either come to you voluntarily or reject you and pay you no attention. Furthermore, there are parasitic entities associated with trickery that may come to you, wasting your entire life while you believe you are communicating with the original entity. You only discover, when dealing with a seasoned Magus, that you were dealing with a collection of spiritual scum.

Try it, and you will see: my words are the very eye of truth in this hidden and complex science."

Post automatically merged: Dec 8, 2025

This is interesting dilema, the correct way to read the names of spirits. I would probably go for humble way, to summon the spirit with the name that I got and then ask the spirit if I say it right or how should I say it. Ti helps. It's funny, You can work with Loki and say his name in two completely valid ways. in English the "O" is said as in soul. but it can also be said as in boring. Though if you say it long, Looooki, at least he protested when I was doing that.

I assume, that spirits get used to it when people change their language and start pronouncing their names different. life is change, so even change of their name is part of it. I believe that a lot of problems can be solved by good communication. Also spirits don't seem too offended, when you start giving them nicknames, for one reason or the other. It is definitely not uncommon for a spirit to have more names. Some important spirts have many.

maybe also... new name might be also of help to spirit to adjust to a current time. sort of part of adaptation in everchanging world.

"Moriel my friend: I was waiting for you.

My friend, dealing with spirits requires continuous testing, but I must emphasize that this science is not about talking to friends; it is about talking to entities that are intensely powerful and also arrogant. Indeed, a spirit may answer you if it wishes and inform you of the correct pronunciation of its name or teach it to you, or it may completely ignore you.

I find that in most Western sciences, you deal with names that are phonetically difficult in English linguistics, but more training on the correct pronunciation equals more progress in the right direction.

For example, in the Picatrix, there are hidden Power Names related to the worship of the Seven Planets adopted by the Chaldeans, Samaritans, and others. If you distort them, despite the difficulty of their pronunciation, they simply become useless.

The true experiment is this: try any genuine spell intended to cause a real, material effect, and you will see that it is useless unless it is correct. For example, in al-Barhatīyah, there are hundreds of versions teeming in Arabic books, but they are only 28 names. The one who masters their pronunciation wins their power, and every time you mispronounce a name, you lose its strength.

Thus, you find yourself wasting a month of work to achieve something material and tangible, while someone else accomplishes it in five minutes and gets their result. So, choose what you want and believe what you wish, for you know the truth within yourself and you see your true power when you are alone.

Magic is not a game. Magic is not friendly."

 

[Morell]

"I am not speaking merely about the name of the spirit; rather, I mean the Power Names that direct that spirit or open the pathway to it. What I know, based on my own experience and that of all practitioners working with me, is that when you connect with these names and perfect their correct pronunciation, you unlock the oldest portals of reception, establishing genuine channels between yourself and the invoked spirit.

Even more critical is that when using the Enabling Names or Compulsion Names or Protection Names, mispronouncing these names can sometimes render them empty and completely worthless.

Furthermore, if you mention a god like Amun, is it permissible to confuse him with Aten? If matters were truly as simple as your words suggest, why was Tutankhaten’s name changed to Tutankhamun? Was it to appease Amun’s priests, who [it is believed] murdered the young man with a blow to the head? Why did the world turn against his father, Akhenaten, when he called for the worship of the sun alone, in your opinion?

What is the difference between Helios, Aten, Amun, and Ra? They are all manifestations of the Sun as a planet. If what you claim is correct, why do the names vary and the manifestations differ between one idol and another for their followers?

In the case of spirits, for example, Lucifer and Lucifuge: here, you are calling upon the same entity, but once by honoring him as the Bearer of Light and once by insulting him as the Hater of Light.

In our tradition, we consider the different local dialects as tools for reception. Spirits may recognize them and interact with them as actual linguistic shifts. A simple example: phonetic letters like 'shīn' (), 'sīn' (), and 'thāʾ' () are dialectical accents, but their efficacy depends on the spirit either confirming their use or having been bound by covenants to obey all of them (I speak here of the Power Names).

Otherwise, you will have no spiritual compulsion. The entity will either come to you voluntarily or reject you and pay you no attention. Furthermore, there are parasitic entities associated with trickery that may come to you, wasting your entire life while you believe you are communicating with the original entity. You only discover, when dealing with a seasoned Magus, that you were dealing with a collection of spiritual scum.

Try it, and you will see: my words are the very eye of truth in this hidden and complex science."

Post automatically merged: Dec 8, 2025

"Moriel my friend: I was waiting for you.

My friend, dealing with spirits requires continuous testing, but I must emphasize that this science is not about talking to friends; it is about talking to entities that are intensely powerful and also arrogant. Indeed, a spirit may answer you if it wishes and inform you of the correct pronunciation of its name or teach it to you, or it may completely ignore you.

I find that in most Western sciences, you deal with names that are phonetically difficult in English linguistics, but more training on the correct pronunciation equals more progress in the right direction.

For example, in the Picatrix, there are hidden Power Names related to the worship of the Seven Planets adopted by the Chaldeans, Samaritans, and others. If you distort them, despite the difficulty of their pronunciation, they simply become useless.

The true experiment is this: try any genuine spell intended to cause a real, material effect, and you will see that it is useless unless it is correct. For example, in al-Barhatīyah, there are hundreds of versions teeming in Arabic books, but they are only 28 names. The one who masters their pronunciation wins their power, and every time you mispronounce a name, you lose its strength.

Thus, you find yourself wasting a month of work to achieve something material and tangible, while someone else accomplishes it in five minutes and gets their result. So, choose what you want and believe what you wish, for you know the truth within yourself and you see your true power when you are alone.

Magic is not a game. Magic is not friendly."

Not a game... I assume you mean that I should not be careless. Game is great tool for practicing skills.

This intense relying on exact name and exact pronunciation feels to me to be rather modern invention, consequence of our vast ability to preserve and explore knowledge. Yet when we go back in history, sooner or later every tradition turns into oral tradition passed down oraly and founded only on memory.

Your system seems greatly different from mine, in foundations too, it seems. Building relationships with spirits is not a game at all. In Norse Europe it's the basics even for people not practicing occult. It is normal to speak about spirits as Good Neighbors and keeping good relationship and connection with them by giving them our thanks as well as gifts. We are meant to recognize them and be their good neighbors as well.

To us Gods like Aesir, that I used to worship (and might return to later on again) are yet another group of these spirits and neighbors that live in this world along with us and can (and should) develop friendships with. Thor in the myths has two servants that are humans, who joined him in complicated situation, but then became his loyal friends, not only servants, and even were helping him win against his enemies.

Being honorable and building friendships is not a game for us, it's a norm. Mis-saying a name? An error anyone can make. But the mythology of Northern Europe is rather about loyalty to a friend an ally rather than glory of someone's name. The pyramid system as in Abrahamic religions is nonexistent, both among spirits as well as among humans, it was added only in late times when Christianity was taking over, by Christians when they were studying paganism. Everyone is a master in their own house and the guests should honor him and his rules. Gods visiting humans should do the same.

In matter of practicality, this works well for me. Sure, your system of enforcing will makes it more sure to achieve results, as it prefers to skip the free will of the spirit. But beyond that spirits has no reason to care for you. It is very limited. This system of mine, might limit my abilities in enforcing spirits, but it has advantages too. Making friends means having friends in case you need them. It's not that long someone here posted about asking an angel for help with sickness which backfired. Wow. When I asked one of my spirits for help in very similar situation (also sick and in bed, having issues with cough) I couldn't offer anything obviously, so I just called for help. Answer was immediate, spirit half in thought saying "Oh well, you are feeding me." Next day my health as well as multiple aspects of life improved because he did some good cleaning on my soul. Honor in practice and I'm very thankful for that help.

I do not need correct form, what I need is myself being honest and true to myself, the magic, and to the spirits. I agree with the claim that they are minder to those who work on self-improvement and self-bettering.

Post automatically merged: Dec 9, 2025

Oh... correction:
I agree with the claim that they are kinder to those who work on self-improvement and self-bettering.

 

[Angelkesfarl]

Not a game... I assume you mean that I should not be careless. Game is great tool for practicing skills.

This intense relying on exact name and exact pronunciation feels to me to be rather modern invention, consequence of our vast ability to preserve and explore knowledge. Yet when we go back in history, sooner or later every tradition turns into oral tradition passed down oraly and founded only on memory.

Your system seems greatly different from mine, in foundations too, it seems. Building relationships with spirits is not a game at all. In Norse Europe it's the basics even for people not practicing occult. It is normal to speak about spirits as Good Neighbors and keeping good relationship and connection with them by giving them our thanks as well as gifts. We are meant to recognize them and be their good neighbors as well.

To us Gods like Aesir, that I used to worship (and might return to later on again) are yet another group of these spirits and neighbors that live in this world along with us and can (and should) develop friendships with. Thor in the myths has two servants that are humans, who joined him in complicated situation, but then became his loyal friends, not only servants, and even were helping him win against his enemies.

Being honorable and building friendships is not a game for us, it's a norm. Mis-saying a name? An error anyone can make. But the mythology of Northern Europe is rather about loyalty to a friend an ally rather than glory of someone's name. The pyramid system as in Abrahamic religions is nonexistent, both among spirits as well as among humans, it was added only in late times when Christianity was taking over, by Christians when they were studying paganism. Everyone is a master in their own house and the guests should honor him and his rules. Gods visiting humans should do the same.

In matter of practicality, this works well for me. Sure, your system of enforcing will makes it more sure to achieve results, as it prefers to skip the free will of the spirit. But beyond that spirits has no reason to care for you. It is very limited. This system of mine, might limit my abilities in enforcing spirits, but it has advantages too. Making friends means having friends in case you need them. It's not that long someone here posted about asking an angel for help with sickness which backfired. Wow. When I asked one of my spirits for help in very similar situation (also sick and in bed, having issues with cough) I couldn't offer anything obviously, so I just called for help. Answer was immediate, spirit half in thought saying "Oh well, you are feeding me." Next day my health as well as multiple aspects of life improved because he did some good cleaning on my soul. Honor in practice and I'm very thankful for that help.

I do not need correct form, what I need is myself being honest and true to myself, the magic, and to the spirits. I agree with the claim that they are minder to those who work on self-improvement and self-bettering.

Post automatically merged: Dec 9, 2025

Oh... correction:
I agree with the claim that they are kinder to those who work on self-improvement and self-bettering.

"Therefore, look at the matter as a subtle analogy. In our tradition, we call the residents of the houses Ammar (meaning, those who inhabit the dwellings), and each one of these entities owns its place—the house—and prevents any other spirit from penetrating that house unless it consents, or else it will expel it."

"Our masters have warned us for two thousand years that all residents of the Earth among these entities have specialized angels and kings who differ from the kings, servants, and daemons of sorcery. Just as in our physical legal arrangement , no one can enter your home without your free will, similarly, to introduce another entity into a space by your will, you might conflict with the will of the entity residing in that same room."

"This is where we perform a temporary banishment of the resident entity from the place, summon personal guards for our protection until we complete the work, and then we demand the subservient entity of the spell to leave by using binding names of power compulsory to all spirits. If it refuses, we enlist the guards and figures of coercion to forcibly subdue it and make it exit."

"The spiritual schools run parallel, but the laws intersect because, regardless of the religion, they are firmly established in application and compulsory. Thank you; whenever I draw your attention, you bring forth pearls from your strong, open mind. Thank you, Muriel; you are always welcome."

 

[SerpentBakery]

"I am not speaking merely about the name of the spirit; rather, I mean the Power Names that direct that spirit or open the pathway to it. What I know, based on my own experience and that of all practitioners working with me, is that when you connect with these names and perfect their correct pronunciation, you unlock the oldest portals of reception, establishing genuine channels between yourself and the invoked spirit.

Even more critical is that when using the Enabling Names or Compulsion Names or Protection Names, mispronouncing these names can sometimes render them empty and completely worthless.

Furthermore, if you mention a god like Amun, is it permissible to confuse him with Aten? If matters were truly as simple as your words suggest, why was Tutankhaten’s name changed to Tutankhamun? Was it to appease Amun’s priests, who [it is believed] murdered the young man with a blow to the head? Why did the world turn against his father, Akhenaten, when he called for the worship of the sun alone, in your opinion?

What is the difference between Helios, Aten, Amun, and Ra? They are all manifestations of the Sun as a planet. If what you claim is correct, why do the names vary and the manifestations differ between one idol and another for their followers?

In the case of spirits, for example, Lucifer and Lucifuge: here, you are calling upon the same entity, but once by honoring him as the Bearer of Light and once by insulting him as the Hater of Light.

In our tradition, we consider the different local dialects as tools for reception. Spirits may recognize them and interact with them as actual linguistic shifts. A simple example: phonetic letters like 'shīn' (), 'sīn' (), and 'thāʾ' () are dialectical accents, but their efficacy depends on the spirit either confirming their use or having been bound by covenants to obey all of them (I speak here of the Power Names).

Otherwise, you will have no spiritual compulsion. The entity will either come to you voluntarily or reject you and pay you no attention. Furthermore, there are parasitic entities associated with trickery that may come to you, wasting your entire life while you believe you are communicating with the original entity. You only discover, when dealing with a seasoned Magus, that you were dealing with a collection of spiritual scum.

Try it, and you will see: my words are the very eye of truth in this hidden and complex science."

Post automatically merged: Dec 8, 2025

"Moriel my friend: I was waiting for you.

My friend, dealing with spirits requires continuous testing, but I must emphasize that this science is not about talking to friends; it is about talking to entities that are intensely powerful and also arrogant. Indeed, a spirit may answer you if it wishes and inform you of the correct pronunciation of its name or teach it to you, or it may completely ignore you.

I find that in most Western sciences, you deal with names that are phonetically difficult in English linguistics, but more training on the correct pronunciation equals more progress in the right direction.

For example, in the Picatrix, there are hidden Power Names related to the worship of the Seven Planets adopted by the Chaldeans, Samaritans, and others. If you distort them, despite the difficulty of their pronunciation, they simply become useless.

The true experiment is this: try any genuine spell intended to cause a real, material effect, and you will see that it is useless unless it is correct. For example, in al-Barhatīyah, there are hundreds of versions teeming in Arabic books, but they are only 28 names. The one who masters their pronunciation wins their power, and every time you mispronounce a name, you lose its strength.

Thus, you find yourself wasting a month of work to achieve something material and tangible, while someone else accomplishes it in five minutes and gets their result. So, choose what you want and believe what you wish, for you know the truth within yourself and you see your true power when you are alone.

Magic is not a game. Magic is not friendly."

Ah, I see you were talking about a specific kind of name, not just the names of mythology! My bad, I misunderstood you on that front. Just to clarify: I never implied that Aten and Amun are interchangeable. They refer to different Faces of God, and therefore can not be used as doors towards the same Face. I used Amun as a secondary example because his name has been corrupted most by both occultists/mystics and Christians alike.

That said, to actually answer your question: yes, you're right insofar as the pronunciation of a name of power can affect things more, and you are right about the mechanism too. But my point still stands: getting too hung up on doors or even corridors can be detrimental to practice. Like trying to reach a forest but being stressed about the gait you have as you reach it, so you stop in place and, instead of progressing to the forest, you watch your feet as you walk in circles to make sure "it's right".

Names of power (chants like the Greek ones, for example) work because they create a certain musical frequency and allow the practitioner to emit it with their voice. The invocation is done through singing, because song is a non-verbal signal that Faces of God emit naturally. Like the frequency of a waveform, for example. It is hard to explain (as in, trace the concept) because I experience it by default, due to me having synesthesia so I hear frequencies and names as sound by default, almost.

But let's say that a name of power has indeed been distorted. My point about interacting with the concept the name was for still stands, because how did we find out those names back in the day in the first place? The purest forms of them came from practitioners meditating on a certain concept/divine geometry, and hearing it in their mind as a frequency which they then translated (be it during trance or after the fact, but likely during trance) into syllables or sets of sound that can be recreated. Personally, I enter meditation and allow myself to chant under trance to find out certain "frequencies" that can later be used to induce certain states or to communicate with a certain aspect of the divine - my assumption basically comes from my own experience/practice as well as rational inference drawn from observation of texts/metaphysics. But I'd be curious to hear what you have to say on this.

So, the simplest answer is: if unsure, meditate on the concept of the name. In the case of Aten, meditate on the divine geometry of the Sun. In the case of Amun, meditate on the divine geometry of potential within the void of Creation. Don't force it - let it come to you. The physical manifestation of the Sun is easiest to use as example because by concentrating on it, and allowing it to take shape within your mind instead of manipulating it, is how you get to the point where you can then hear the "frequency" of that concept-as-name (the physical manifestation acts as the starting point, to clarify). Then, you can translate it into a key of sorts, like the names you mention. Sometimes Earth's archives are inadequate indeed, and therefore my point still stands: focus on the concept, not the name. The concept-as-name will emerge to you naturally after that, in various shapes.

 

[Morell]

So, the simplest answer is: if unsure, meditate on the concept of the name. In the case of Aten, meditate on the divine geometry of the Sun. In the case of Amun, meditate on the divine geometry of potential within the void of Creation. Don't force it - let it come to you. The physical manifestation of the Sun is easiest to use as example because by concentrating on it, and allowing it to take shape within your mind instead of manipulating it, is how you get to the point where you can then hear the "frequency" of that concept-as-name (the physical manifestation acts as the starting point, to clarify). Then, you can translate it into a key of sorts, like the names you mention. Sometimes Earth's archives are inadequate indeed, and therefore my point still stands: focus on the concept, not the name. The concept-as-name will emerge to you naturally after that, in various shapes.

Damn, I really needed to hear that. A treasure indeed! Thanks!

 

[Angelkesfarl]

"Let me agree a little and disagree a lot. I am a person who adores the clear, manifest truth, which is that trial and error is what will distinguish the experience of a name until you reach the correct one. Indeed, sometimes the spirits themselves guide you to the correct name, and sometimes the daemons also tempt you to follow the distortion. For instance, many esoteric writers promise that by altering the Name (EHYEH ASHER EHYEH), you impose a Divine Authority upon yourself. (Hahaha), after several reviews, the correct understanding, without evasion, is that you are claiming a new authority for yourself and seizing it from its source. If you continue to call upon the true Name of God, the daemons will not manifest; rather, they will flee."

"This is what all followers of the Left-Hand Path have concealed, and what the daemons have also hidden. So where did the powerful words or Names of Power come from? They originated from three main sources:"

"One of them is what was inspired by Henry and the philosophers: determining the name of the spirit from astrological connections, angles, and projections onto the Ten Sephiroth of the Tree of Life and the 22 Hebrew letters. The angles of the planets and stars are used to deduce the name of an angel or spirit—or whatever you wish to call it—and by reversing the process, you derive the daemon's name. That is one source."

"The second is through the spirits' communication with the first sorcerer, as supported by numerous manuscripts detailing the manifestation of spirits and how they demanded worship. Examples include the claim by the Sabians, Harranians, Chaldeans, ancient Egyptians, and Assyrians of the seven planets manifesting as spirits... or through the journeys of Enoch, or even the ascension of Ishmael or Aafiyah to heaven and speaking with God...?"

"And finally, through the science of Notariqon and the Atbash method, or the science of simple expansion and fragmentation of letters, as in the Shemhamphorash... The result is a wealth of knowledge; every group has taken a specific path to reach the magical dimension. This was done either by establishing a claimed virtual world by the founders of those movements and pagan religions, or through some intermediary form. However, they all stem from this triumvirate."

"Thus, the Names of Power were first uttered by individuals, then traveled across different cultures, either pronounced correctly or distorted. Yet, I will continue to say and reiterate: no matter how sweet industrial sugar tastes, it will never measure up to the rank of natural sugar; it is merely similar to it. Will the debate ever end? I don't think so; it has persisted in everyone's minds for hundreds of years. But with the few available resources, and if a non-prejudiced volunteer group—one that does not rush to judgment—were available, coupled with a lot of hard work, I believe we could delve deep into everything that has passed and discover its truth. Today, the least knowledgeable person has accumulated knowledge that almost exceeds the total knowledge of all those who came before us. So, who agrees, and who will volunteer the most precious thing in existence: time?"