Lucifer: Hero or Villain

[Konsciencia]

It's because people are deaf, and blind. Often intentionally.

They don't listen, they are just hearing.
They don't see, they are just watching.

I think they're looking for "serving" because it may give them the false feeling that they have less responsibility and freedom what they have to deal with, but even this mindset, is a decision came from free will. It's easier to act like a subordinate rather than like someone who have the power to control their life. But we all have it, we just don't want to accept it. This is the truth, picking up a role will not save us from the consequences neither.

What Lucifer has always told to me and kept remind me when I was working with him is:​

,, Always trust in your senses and yourself. ''
,, Do not surrender yourself to your doubts nor keep turning back to them. It'll drag you back to the same Hell what you've overcome once. ''
,, You are powerful and free. ''

He never gave me the vibe of someone who'd thirsts for slaves or subordinates. On the contrary, he had much more of a paternal vibes, radiance and his presence so bright. I often felt treated like an “equal partner” because he was watching my soul, communicating with my soul and not with my ego and it's illusions, expectations.

If you want to approach him with your ego and negative, destructive thoughts, you might get back these as a reflection from him. He can be fair and terrible, just like you or me. Both is natural, both is needed, both is a part of reality and of the Ccosmic Balance.

To me Lucifer is a Hero in my book, He/She, and I say He or She, because based on my experiences, Lucifer appeared both as Female, and Male (mostly female though) but not weak, but more of a powerful Warrior God Goddess, who is more than what people imagined Lucifer to be. Lucifer has helped me realized that I am free! Free of the bullshit that this world is going through. Lucifer, helped me realized that we are Gods, and Goddesses, and that we can achieve what Lucifer achieved.

 

[Roma]

I appear on this forum as Roma but I do have other handles. How many beings use the Lucifer handle?

 

[William]

Yes - post # 19 points out something interesting as well - we have expression made by Telafiel which are reminiscent of expressions made by those who speak of their relationship with Jesus...
Without getting caught up in the sticky web of Christian-denominational-dynamics, one could read the following;

What Jesus has always told to me and kept remind me when I was working with him is:
,, Always trust in your senses and yourself. ''
,, Do not surrender yourself to your doubts nor keep turning back to them. It'll drag you back to the same Hell what you've overcome once. ''
,, You are powerful and free. ''

and think nothing strange re that.

 

[William]

I appear on this forum as Roma but I do have other handles. How many beings use the Lucifer handle?

Is this the correct question to be asking?

Is it not the quality of the message that counts, rather than the name of the entity the message comes from?

Extend Beyond The Borders of Institution

 

[Saint]

Yes, Lucifer and any other spirit can appear in different form, because soul itself is genderless, and it's more about the energy what they'd like to manifest. In this terms, every soul have a kind of energy, what we'd call feminine or masculine but this is just an attempt from us to put this into a form we can process, and on Earth we tend to link it to genders. Yes, "dominant" energy is still a thing, but let's see Archangel Michael's example, we usually work with his masculine energies on Earth, while on other planets and planes, he manifests his feminine energies, because on that place, it's more needed.

If we observe genders, we can safely say that even men have feminine side and qualities, and females have masculine ones, and this rates can be different, just like in soul's case.
As for me, even if I'm a female, my masculine energies and qualities are dominant, and this often confuses others to. It's perfectly indicated in my Chinese zodiac, which is Yin Metal. I've worked only with 'masculine aspect' of Gods, Demons and Angels, this was the perfect way for me to approach my feminine side and release it easier. ​

To me Lucifer is a Hero in my book, He/She, and I say He or She, because based on my experiences, Lucifer appeared both as Female, and Male (mostly female though) but not weak, but more of a powerful Warrior God Goddess, who is more than what people imagined Lucifer to be. Lucifer has helped me realized that I am free! Free of the bullshit that this world is going through. Lucifer, helped me realized that we are Gods, and Goddesses, and that we can achieve what Lucifer achieved.

One of our goal to manifest our God-self on different planes, and so on Earth too, with all of our knowledge, reachable power and potential we meant to bring here. Eventually, It'd clean up the mess we made as ego and lust driven humans.

Beings who are eager to help in their own may, methods like Lucifer, Archangel Michael or many other entities are able to see our true self, and not the image of a "sheep" in the "slaughterhouse", created by greedy humans and their system. But people keep approaching them carrying a false role with false beliefs and illusions, so every things which comes from them, will be distorted.

No surprises when I say, one tne of the most effective way to manipulate and lure us to put ourself to a lower place - because nobody else can do this to us, only we have the power -, are religions, and the manipulating of Holy Texts the way it benefits them the most, distorting the image of different beings which could help us too, and generate discord and hate, fear and doubts. These are the pillars of downfall, the blockages of rising, and perfect tools to put a false role on ourself.

Isn't it interesting? Even these have no power over us, and they know this!
So they make us to use OUR power to cage ourselves. This is the magic trick.

​

 

[Konsciencia]

Yes, Lucifer and any other spirit can appear in different form, because soul itself is genderless, and it's more about the energy what they'd like to manifest. In this terms, every soul have a kind of energy, what we'd call feminine or masculine but this is just an attempt from us to put this into a form we can process, and on Earth we tend to link it to genders. Yes, "dominant" energy is still a thing, but let's see Archangel Michael's example, we usually work with his masculine energies on Earth, while on other planets and planes, he manifests his feminine energies, because on that place, it's more needed.

If we observe genders, we can safely say that even men have feminine side and qualities, and females have masculine ones, and this rates can be different, just like in soul's case.
As for me, even if I'm a female, my masculine energies and qualities are dominant, and this often confuses others to. It's perfectly indicated in my Chinese zodiac, which is Yin Metal. I've worked only with 'masculine aspect' of Gods, Demons and Angels, this was the perfect way for me to approach my feminine side and release it easier.



One of our goal to manifest our God-self on different planes, and so on Earth too, with all of our knowledge, reachable power and potential we meant to bring here. Eventually, It'd clean up the mess we made as ego and lust driven humans.

Beings who are eager to help in their own may, methods like Lucifer, Archangel Michael or many other entities are able to see our true self, and not the image of a "sheep" in the "slaughterhouse", created by greedy humans and their system. But people keep approaching them carrying a false role with false beliefs and illusions, so every things which comes from them, will be distorted.

No surprises when I say, one tne of the most effective way to manipulate and lure us to put ourself to a lower place - because nobody else can do this to us, only we have the power -, are religions, and the manipulating of Holy Texts the way it benefits them the most, distorting the image of different beings which could help us too, and generate discord and hate, fear and doubts. These are the pillars of downfall, the blockages of rising, and perfect tools to put a false role on ourself.

Isn't it interesting? Even these have no power over us, and they know this!
So they make us to use OUR power to cage ourselves. This is the magic trick.

​

Wow Telafiel, I did not know you was female at all. It's incredible what you've just pointed out. God has no gender, and that makes us genderless... I want to point out, that my Feminine Energy is more dominant than my Masculine Energy, because I now know that Women like you, are very powerful, and that Women, are so much more than just sex objects. I learned to understand women even more now than ever. Sometimes, when I look at a woman, I see myself, because women are reflections of Men, and men are reflections of women. When the time is right, and I meet my Female version of myself out there. I know that when we make Love, it will be with eyes of seeing how beautiful I am as a woman, and hopefully, if She can see it, that She reacts the same as I do when She looks at me. Nice concepts Telafiel, and thank you for posting. With Love and respect.

 

[Saint]

Wow Telafiel, I did not know you was female at all. It's incredible what you've just pointed out. God has no gender, and that makes us genderless... I want to point out, that my Feminine Energy is more dominant than my Masculine Energy, because I now know that Women like you, are very powerful, and that Women, are so much more than just sex objects. I learned to understand women even more now than ever. Sometimes, when I look at a woman, I see myself, because women are reflections of Men, and men are reflections of women. When the time is right, and I meet my Female version of myself out there. I know that when we make Love, it will be with eyes of seeing how beautiful I am as a woman, and hopefully, if She can see it, that She reacts the same as I do when She looks at me. Nice concepts Telafiel, and thank you for posting. With Love and respect.

When I was younger - not like if I'd be that old - I've had a struggle with accepting the fact that the soul itself have no gender, and that the 'origin' of the soul and nature is different in some way or another. Now I know why. It's because I identified as my body, with my physical qualities, features and different things on the material plane, so I hold into these blindly, viciously. Since I identify myself as the soul, I am more opened to different things, and more 'free' from the physical binding.
It helps me a lot to not be afraid of understand others; you can't do that perfectly. Not until you understand yourself, and experience your own gifts and qualities. The reason? Because at the very end, we came from 'One' (and you can approach the subject 'One' in countless way, as you'd like to).

You did a good point on "reflections" (and you described in a beautiful way some form of this reflection). We're a good reflections of each other, in many way, and this is something we should value and use for our good, and not see it as a reason for war. But again, we are half- or completely blind and deaf. We identify with things we should not, things we aren't, and crave for something we've been always was, we just trying to find them somewhere where these qualities are not belong, or not manifest themselves in the way our ego demands. If our 'mirror' is distorted, then anything else which you see in there, will be. This is why we have to start with ourselves - we are these mirrors.

Making love is a precious, intimate and pure way to slowly merge 'into' the other's being, feeling, experiencing them, and through them, our own-self. This beautiful act is a part of my life so much that I live, experience this with the beings I actually work, communicate with, including some infernal being, deity and other entity, too. Not with all of them, but the ones are the most closer to me. It actually help us to connect with each other better, easier and feel each other more clearly, also deeper.
Naturally, we always have to be careful and aware of what is going on, and what we're about to "let in" and "let out". This is an energy exchange, not only a peek behind the veil. This is true wether you experience a sexual act physically or astrally, the last one is something which always happens, but not everyone is aware of it, especially if they are too focused and indentified with the body and only what the body offers.

I remember, around the time when I've got introduced in spirit sex, I was hoped that the demon who teached me is "loyal", and it was a very-very hard lesson to process the fact that "loyalty" in the way as we, humans expect is not really a thing which is common. We can't own anybody, and which really matters is the purity and strength of the connection we can cherish and protect, not the pride of "having" someone. That is not that type of loyalty what souls thinking of - again, I identified with something I shouldn't: with roles / based on terrestrial standards -.

As for me, being a female; I hope I didn't cause too much confusion. It is something which bring me some very memorable situations in the past. In spite of my fairly masculine energy, I feel myself rather dragged towards beings and persons who also emits similar, or even more powerful / masculine vibes. Maybe it's because deep inside I'd like to release my feminine side too, but as long as there are nobody who could take the role, I must have it to keep everything in place.​

 

[Roma]

It is not altogether clear to me that God has no gender. Long ago when I was first looking at the Entity that uses this universe as its body of manifestation (Universal Logos), the Logos seemed quite male.

But after a while I could see that the Universal Logos also manifests through a second universe where its energies are more female.

Thus twin universes: one seeing the male face of God and the other seeing the female face of God.

There seems to be student exchange between the universes. Some of the advanced students appear as avatars in the host universe.

Something similar can sometimes be seen in the body of a nature spirit - where the body forms a figure 8, with one loop expanding (breathing in) while the other loop contracts (breathing out into the first loop) - making a yin-yang cycle.

I still like the idea of twin universes.

 

[cryphius]

As some people have pointed out, Lucifer's association to Satan or a fallen angel is sketchy. It seems to have happened somewhere in Medieval folklore. I'm not an expert on Christian history and not sure exactly how it happened.

But most people I have seen who honor Lucifer do associate him with the intellectual side of Satanism. Specifically, there's the old Gnostic belief that the Serpent in the Garden of Eden was not the enemy of mankind but the liberator of mankind. In this configuration, YHWH is a false god who imprisons humanity in ignorance. The serpent is a messenger from Holy Wisdom, a higher deity. The serpent bids Eve to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge, thereby liberating her from YHWH's imposed ignorance.

From there it's easy to draw parallels to other figures in mythology and folklore who try to help humanity with knowledge and are often punished for it by a cruel god that wants to keep them in ignorance (Prometheus and his punishment from Zeus being probably the best known instance in Occidental mythology).

I personally see Lucifer as an archetype. Whereas most Satanists seem to concentrate on the material and carnal aspects of Satanism or the rebellious aspects, to me Lucifer focuses on the intellectual aspects.

 

[league_ma_balls]

Every man Villain is another mans Hero

 

[Mider2009]

As some people have pointed out, Lucifer's association to Satan or a fallen angel is sketchy. It seems to have happened somewhere in Medieval folklore. I'm not an expert on Christian history and not sure exactly how it happened.

But most people I have seen who honor Lucifer do associate him with the intellectual side of Satanism. Specifically, there's the old Gnostic belief that the Serpent in the Garden of Eden was not the enemy of mankind but the liberator of mankind. In this configuration, YHWH is a false god who imprisons humanity in ignorance. The serpent is a messenger from Holy Wisdom, a higher deity. The serpent bids Eve to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge, thereby liberating her from YHWH's imposed ignorance.

From there it's easy to draw parallels to other figures in mythology and folklore who try to help humanity with knowledge and are often punished for it by a cruel god that wants to keep them in ignorance (Prometheus and his punishment from Zeus being probably the best known instance in Occidental mythology).

I personally see Lucifer as an archetype. Whereas most Satanists seem to concentrate on the material and carnal aspects of Satanism or the rebellious aspects, to me Lucifer focuses on the intellectual aspects.

In Judaism the Satan just another Servent of God

There’s a lot of interesting myths in the Kabbalah, legends of the Jews etc, but honestly this Archangel is just another team player and God controls everything behind the scenes

as for the Serpent, It was said he was an Angel who didn’t want humans to come and change things so the pre Adam ic races wanted to stop mankind from assuming primacy

of course...it’s symbolic...the tree, Adam and Eve...etc

 

[Erosphore]

To me, definitely a hero. The abrahamic god is a dick... Angels are the biggest dicks of the spirit world, it makes sense when you learn about what they REALLY are. Lucifer only ever brought joy and positivity in my life. No need for complex theories about what he is and what he isn't (something that I learned in my 10 years of occult practice is that occultists love to make things way more complicated and obtuse than they actually are). Lucifer is Lucifer, he's the one who rescues you and lifts your arm up when you're about to give up on life. He's always there for you and he protects his followers like nobody else.

 

[Konsciencia]

To me, definitely a hero. The abrahamic god is a dick... Angels are the biggest dicks of the spirit world, it makes sense when you learn about what they REALLY are. Lucifer only ever brought joy and positivity in my life. No need for complex theories about what he is and what he isn't (something that I learned in my 10 years of occult practice is that occultists love to make things way more complicated and obtuse than they actually are). Lucifer is Lucifer, he's the one who rescues you and lifts your arm up when you're about to give up on life. He's always there for you and he protects his followers like nobody else.

Of course, Lucifer is so great, and I Love Him, or Her with all my Heart, and Soul. Lucifer is fantastic! Thanks for posting!

 

[LostYeoman]

I would say that it is nonsensical to apply a moral framework to an acausal organism or paranatural iteration as morality is a construct of human origin.

To exist outside of Newtonian laws and spatio temporal phenomena is to be a semblance of eternity; a vantage that all animals (including humans) cannot ontically attain, so to impart our comprehension of the social mechanics of animals onto some-thing that is present beyond our spatio temporal existence is something of a hubristic notion.

My apprehension of Lucifer is that it is an abstract manifestation of those eternal primal, violent, and dominating urges which are programmed into every living organism from their inception, which have atrophied within humankind due to our actualised humanist philosophies and Western socio-political “evolution”.

 

[Saint]

I would say that it is nonsensical to apply a moral framework to an acausal organism or paranatural iteration as morality is a construct of human origin.

To exist outside of Newtonian laws and spatio temporal phenomena is to be a semblance of eternity; a vantage that all animals (including humans) cannot ontically attain, so to impart our comprehension of the social mechanics of animals onto some-thing that is present beyond our spatio temporal existence is something of a hubristic notion.

My apprehension of Lucifer is that it is an abstract manifestation of those eternal primal, violent, and dominating urges which are programmed into every living organism from their inception, which have atrophied within humankind due to our actualised humanist philosophies and Western socio-political “evolution”.

It is reminds me of something what I just recently embraced (or truly realized) and I often tend to repeat since then: Moral is a fiction.

 

[Öwnchef]

I would say that it is nonsensical to apply a moral framework to an acausal organism or paranatural iteration as morality is a construct of human origin.

To exist outside of Newtonian laws and spatio temporal phenomena is to be a semblance of eternity; a vantage that all animals (including humans) cannot ontically attain, so to impart our comprehension of the social mechanics of animals onto some-thing that is present beyond our spatio temporal existence is something of a hubristic notion.

My apprehension of Lucifer is that it is an abstract manifestation of those eternal primal, violent, and dominating urges which are programmed into every living organism from their inception, which have atrophied within humankind due to our actualised humanist philosophies and Western socio-political “evolution”.

The knives in your hands are showing, donkey.

 

[LostYeoman]

The knives in your hands are showing, donkey.

 

[Silsebyl]

knives? I would say scalpel - vivisection

 

[ipsychonaut2]

He can be both. I find him more tolerable than Jesus when he's being evil. It's honestly so funny when he's being mean in the 6 dimension because he's not taking any of it seriously whatsoever. But it's important to distinguish the difference between Lucifer and Lucifer-Satan and also there's great animal spirits that work with both Lucifer, Satan, and Jesus respectively. But they'll show up and right mess your whole reality model just to spite you. There's also the problem of saturation intensity of his modus operendi which he's using at any given time which I believe he'll assume different set ups for different situations because he's good at what he does most of the time because he's got supports. There's also the little creatures that are punished if you get them to reveal their true identity so instead you just have to call them all Lucifer-Satan which I refuse to see them as that.. I think they come from people recognizing them when they try to pull you into something silly, recognizing then on a karmic or primal level and then your unconscious pipes up to tell you who they really are and they in turn put your consciousness into a little creature avatar.. which is alarming.. I had a couple years where it was just random creatures trying to live underneath my body whenever I was in bed which was just annoying but I didn't think of them as much of a threat until a spiritual descendant of a Selkie I met in what I only assume to be a false reality. But I don't sense much actual danger in making something up with Lucifer, but I think if you're going to make something up with him, it should at least be worth it in some way. I made something up after being resurrected and I outwardly stated how it was completely retarded to take anything I said about any of it seriously because I was completely subjugated by Elohim which is like this screwball that went with me into Mammon, then sank himself from Mammons block way way way down and then looped the cradle and then crawled back up so I assume he was trying to explode the world's universe. But it really just made like, a surgical tear in the frequency spectrum and the world became super decoherenced and we had to abandon that time and relocate to a different position in time because all the information was pulled into all the places inside the Earth which operate on more of an appreciation for bullshit and a hatred of truth because truth is limited by our understanding so both the inner Earth planes and most of space operates on a system that's more allowing of conceptual things to become realized as operational frameworks for systems and structures which actually work because they were intelligently conceived by establishing merit in some way which can simply be through making it conceivable as long as it's never given to this worlds current people because they chose to seed this Earth by burying the descendants of heaven so they could enslave them and screw with their operations terminal to just continually convolute these descendants spirits into generating petroleum and the ones who physically fell onto the Barren horizon underneath our Earth were turned into precious stones, gems, and minerals... So we all hate this system for trying to subjugate a universe operatives entire support structure to be pulled into this world multiverse universe and then exploit Christ to cause them to all fall to their deaths and Christ wasn't even subjugated to do this but he set all the boundaries way off where they were supposed to be just so he could kill everyone who didn't willingly join his psychopathic system where everytime God incarnates we all have to hunt him down and kill him which... It's pretty damn stupid to think that's okay and also pretty stupid to let Elohim into any system anywhere ever in all time and outside of time because he's literally the worst because he'll ruin a wonderful complete persons entire foundation of self and erase every contribution your lineage has ever brought into being just to spite you, there are so many clones of Earth outside of souls hold but orbiting within their domain of influence that are totally just completely boring because the ruiners of everything had sabotaged the whole system which should've been provided to everyone if their soul held immanent domains over that clone of the Earth... But in their incarnate self probably not be able to do anything if they can see it with their eyes because sight is supposed to be as legitimate as it can be given your strengths and weaknesses.. so you shouldn't be permitted to just obliterate others like they would do in Sumer because that's just psychopathic. I think of the incarnations of God being treated more like involuntary hostages to the worlds they're resident to, who have to lose all awareness of who they are or they'll be tracked and targeted and then be put into dire straits... So what I'm getting at about Lucifer, is he tried to take me over when I was incorrectly put into a false reality before coming here, and then when he became me the redneck Jesus people were going to rip off his hands, so he made me get my hands ripped off instead of him because my spectrum of caller tones and wavelengths just at a different level so who's gonna notice? So they just gave me someone elses hands in spirit and these hands seem to intentionally do things incorrectly and have annoying jankiness. I don't approve of them, but on the brightside I had no experience with manifesting much at the time so it's good he did that because I would've straight up destroyed everything everywhere if it were up to me.

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

AFAIK he does not want to work with me, so villain.