Michael Cecchetelli Sentenced To 4 Years In Prison (Aug 2022)

[Elementriloquist]

I have a single question for you.

What have you achieved with magick?

If your answer is nothing, I will go back to calling you an idiot.

I have a single question for you.

What response could a random person give you online that could prove they actually achieved anything with magic at all?

Only an idiot would believe the alleged claims of some random person online, especially for something as "impossible" as magic.

You want me to give you an honest answer........................ I set myself on fire and burned myself to death (I mean that is THE greatest feat of magic that's "possible" )

 

[Vandheer]

I have a single question for you.

What response could a random person give you online that could prove they actually achieved anything with magic at all?

Only an idiot would believe the alleged claims of some random person online, especially for something as "impossible" as magic.

You want me to give you an honest answer........................ I set myself on fire and burned myself to death (I mean that is THE greatest feat of magic that's "possible" )

Your answer is nothing then. You are an idiot

Post automatically merged: Apr 28, 2023

It will be hillarious to see couple of months, maybe years, since you are that delusional, from now on, to see you try your damned hardest and go absolutely nowhere as high as you think you can (even if you managed to get through all of Bardons 3 books in success). Until then, good luck trying to burn peoples furniture, human torch!! Bahahahaa, you could have just used gasoline instead, Christssake!

Until then, keep trying to scam people with your pathetic Patreon, lmao. Trying to get money out of a dead mans work, what a pathetic cuck. Ignored.

 

[Elementriloquist]

Until then, good luck trying to burn peoples furniture, human torch!! Bahahahaa, you could have just used gasoline instead, Christssake!

I'm not trying to do that, that was just a simple example to get the point across of what a successful attempt would be (something that is specific and isn't open to interpretation, so that you can't use mental gymnastics to convince yourself "I did magic").

All of your experiments/tests with magic should account for your own mental biases and weaknesses as a human. To not do that means that you don't actually care if you are doing magic, but rather you only care if you feel like you are doing magic because it makes you feel good.

This is why I'd never do magic for some like "getting a job", because there's no way for me to account for all of the variables that could have caused to me get that job (including random chance). Whereas something like starting a fire is very specific and doesn't naturally happen at all. Of course for my test I wouldn't use someone else's property.

Until then, keep trying to scam people with your pathetic Patreon, lmao. Trying to get money out of a dead mans work, what a pathetic cuck. Ignored.

There is no scam, I created audiobooks for myself and I decided to share it on my Patreon, I've told everyone that they can easily find the PDF online for free.

Why are you so triggered lol. Also learn to read, I said I'd add you to my ignore list if you didn't answer my question, and you did. Stop with all the theatrics in your responses next time and be direct.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

I'm not trying to do that, that was just a simple example to get the point across of what a successful attempt would be (something that is specific and isn't open to interpretation, so that you can't use mental gymnastics to convince yourself "I did magic").

All of your experiments/tests with magic should account for your own mental biases and weaknesses as a human. To not do that means that you don't actually care if you are doing magic, but rather you only care if you feel like you are doing magic because it makes you feel good.

This is why I'd never do magic for some like "getting a job", because there's no way for me to account for all of the variables that could have caused to me get that job (including random chance). Whereas something like starting a fire is very specific and doesn't naturally happen at all. Of course for my test I wouldn't use someone else's property.


There is no scam, I created audiobooks for myself and I decided to share it on my Patreon, I've told everyone that they can easily find the PDF online for free.

Why are you so triggered lol. Also learn to read, I said I'd add you to my ignore list if you didn't answer my question, and you did. Stop with all the theatrics in your responses next time and be direct.

What about controlling weather?

 

[dema354]

What response could a random person give you online that could prove they actually achieved anything with magic at all?

Correct. Due to the nature of magick, this could be described as an exercise in futility. All sorts of claims can be made however with scarcely any way to confirm for certain that any of them are true, that's what they remain as. That's not to say we would then be able to write them all off as either true or false as that would be intellectually lazy. Could we give a general statement? Maybe. In either case though, without a way to reliably test the veracity of a claim online in order to account for foul play and maybe some self-delusion, trying to determine the truth value of unfalsifiable statements is like saying strawberry is the best flavor. Points can be made towards and against that position, a position that may or may not be true and we may never know for certain. Having said all that, if said random person had happened to have been tested by an acreddited Parapsychology Research Institution, then I would be more likely to believe their claims in so far as they have already been vigorously tested for parlour tricks and their state of mind. Even still, such a claim could only reliably or reasonably be attested for them.

All of your experiments/tests with magic should account for your own mental biases and weaknesses as a human. To not do that means that you don't actually care if you are doing magic, but rather you only care if you feel like you are doing magic because it makes you feel good.

This is why I'd never do magic for some like "getting a job", because there's no way for me to account for all of the variables that could have caused to me get that job (including random chance). Whereas something like starting a fire is very specific and doesn't naturally happen at all.

As far as I can tell, hardly anyone within the occult community tests with magic while accounting for these variables. It would be nice if this practice of doing so was a bit more common.

What about controlling weather?

That would depend on what conditions for the experiment that have been set. If I were to go to a location known to be very windy and then tried to control the weather such that the air picked up around me, I would be mostly likely deluding myself whereas if I was in the middle of a blazing hot desert during the scorching day and I conjured a freezing rain storm to appear in that same vicininity, well with the testimonies of others, 3rd parties not sponsored by paid to say that the events happened, then the results of such an experiment would be less likely to be a case of self-delusion.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

We have transcendental meditation as a true form of magick. Guided meditations.

 

[Elementriloquist]

What about controlling weather?

Yep, that would be a good one too, but what kind of weather and when?

If someone said they did a spell so that rain would fall "some time within the week" I'd just say they were delusional and playing mental gymnastics games with themselves.

If someone was standing right in front of me and it was sunny with no dark clouds, and then they said some magic words or did a hand gesture in front of me, and then said they are going to make rain fall in the next 5 minutes. If rain began to fall in the next 10 minutes I'd be more convinced that they could do magic (I'd give them an extra 5 minutes as "room for error").

I still wouldn't be completely convinced, but they'd have me doubting them a lot less, there'd have to be further testing for me to believe them because they could just be using local weather news to pull off some kind of performative magic trick, in the same way that Christopher Columbus used his astronomical knowledge of lunar eclipses to trick ignorant natives into believing that he could control the celestial bodies.

As far as I can tell, hardly anyone within the occult community tests with magic while accounting for these variables. It would be nice if this practice of doing so was a bit more common.

You can't imagine the level of hate I get in occult spaces for speaking like this lol. It's almost as if I'm the only person "not in on the joke" and I'm breaking some kind of rule that you are supposed to repress all logical thought or conversation when it comes to magic.

This is exactly why once I actually have achieved such a feat and proven magic to myself, I'm leaving the entire occult space behind, deleting all of my accounts everything.

Nobody in these spaces is actually teaching you anything, they couldn't teach you even if they wanted to because they aren't objective and likely haven't even tested themselves, and when you finally attain abilities nobody in these spaces would actually be willing to learn because they want magic to be something vague and illusory so that they can just feel special because they "felt some energy in their chakras while meditating" or they "attained enlightenment after taking some hallucinogenic substance".

You ask anyone in these spaces how they've tested their abilities and the answer has always been that they didn't do any tests. It's always some one off luck of the draw thing happened and they consider themselves a magician now, end of story. It just sounds like desperation to me. and it's the wrong kind of desperation.

I'm desperate to KNOW magic is real.

They're desperate to BELIEVE magic is real.

We don't have the same goals. Belief is easy, you can convince yourself simply by being willfully ignorant. Knowing requires that you doubt and test things.

The entire occult space has really been a disappointment for me lol. I'm really just here to pass the time in conversation at this point. Once I've reached where I want to in my practice, I'm gone for good.

 

[dema354]

Nobody in these spaces is actually teaching you anything, they couldn't teach you even if they wanted to because they aren't objective and likely haven't even tested themselves, and when you finally attain abilities nobody in these spaces would actually be willing to learn because they want magic to be something vague and illusory so that they can just feel special because they "felt some energy in their chakras while meditating" or they "attained enlightenment after taking some hallucinogenic substance".

You ask anyone in these spaces how they've tested their abilities and the answer has always been that they didn't do any tests. It's always some one off luck of the draw thing happened and they consider themselves a magician now, end of story. It just sounds like desperation to me. and it's the wrong kind of desperation.

True, very true. For anyone seriously considering testing and studying these abilities, is it hardly any wonder they don't have the reputation of relying on these communities?

The entire occult space has really been a disappointment for me lol. I'm really just here to pass the time in conversation at this point. Once I've reached where I want to in my practice, I'm gone for good.

I wouldn't blame you. While there are people who are willing to have themselves tested and are serious in their studies and experiments, too often are they the exception rather than the general norm. In short, as you most definetly understand, for a student or a bonafide teacher of genuine magick, the amount of value that can gleam from these communities is a sunken cost. Anyways, let's suppose you do manage to prove to yourself that magic is real. Is that it? Aren't you curious as to what sorts of methodologies are optimally suited for yielding generally reliable results of true magick? Well it's not as though you'll find much help here or hardly anyone worthy of those dissertations should you get that far.

 

[Elementriloquist]

Anyways, let's suppose you do manage to prove to yourself that magic is real. Is that it? Aren't you curious as to what sorts of methodologies are optimally suited for yielding generally reliable results of true magick?

Yes I'm curious but it won't matter if I don't have the time and resources. The way I look at it is, it's a snowball effect, and you have to get the first snowball rolling in order to get to the next level.

I honestly think that the first "ball" in any modern occultist's path, is to find a way to generate significant/supplementary income using a rudimentary magic ability.

The more money you have the more expendable resources you have to by books and materials for your practice.

The less hours you spend working, the more free time you have for research and practice (also you'll have more time for leisure).

The more you learn, the more you can do, the more you apply than knowledge to benefit your life in practical ways. Which in turn leads to you having more free time and more resources, etc.

At some point you should no longer have to work at all so you can dedicate even more time to your practice (and leisure). Then you can really immerse yourself in your studies.

My point is, if you are stuck working 8 hours a day (or more), for 5 days a week (or more), you won't have the time to research and experiment with various methodologies to discover what is optimal. I'm never going to have the time to research or try anything else unless I can use my initial discovery of "basic" magic to do something that takes me out of the "rat race".

 

[beardedeldridge]

Rando on the internet offering unsolicited thoughts time.

(Disclaimer: I read maybe a quarter of what has been posted but I’ve been traveling most the day and now I’m waiting for my groceries to be loaded into my car and a little bored. So here we go…)

Probability has nothing to do with magic. (Though I will concede it can be a useful model to use when thinking about magical outcomes of the type that are usually the target of chaos, low magic, witchcraft, sorcery, or whatever you get the point.). But the universe isn’t a giant casino where walking in and putting your money on black has better odds but a lower payout then putting your money on 17 and if you bring in a lucky rabbit foot then you have a +2% add on to your luck score.

Magic/spiritual/mystic/whatever are more of a matter of how much force you can bring to bare to make something happen. Then you have to factor in counter forces to the thing happening plus the simple substantial inertia of “reality” itself. (Which is why no magician has had much luck with lotteries or killing politicians - 40%+ of individual wills in a country is a lot of counter force & that’s not taking into account the rest of the world, spiritual forces, or how the actual desired outcome is split a dozen or more ways). Since it’s impossible to know every factor effecting this equation and therefore impossible to guarantee a substantial desired effect will happen then it’s easier (lazier) to simply say it’s all probability.

Can magic/spiritual/mystic forces bring about manifested entities, miraculous healings, “impossible” events, yes they can. Are you going to make that happen with no work on yourself, a cup of water, and no other forces/entities in your corner, probably not.

You should be skeptical of your results, while believing in the capability of magic. Belief is a powerful force probably even a requirement if you want to achieve anything substantial.

Shit out of time. Time to head home.

-Eld

 

[Taudefindi]

If I were to go to a location known to be very windy and then tried to control the weather such that the air picked up around me, I would be mostly likely deluding myself whereas if I was in the middle of a blazing hot desert during the scorching day and I conjured a freezing rain storm to appear in that same vicininity

I believe that in the case of weather control it is less about "control" and more about "guidance" done in hopes to enhance/attract a specific weather being sought by the one(s) doing the work, but it still has to be in the realm of possibility for it to work(so to say, creating a heavy downpour in an arid zone when there aren't even any clouds around and is very dry would not be viable).

You should be skeptical of your results, while believing in the capability of magic.

The best of both worlds, keeping yourself grounded in reality but open to possibilities(specially the wackier ones).

 

[dema354]

Can magic/spiritual/mystic forces bring about manifested entities, miraculous healings, “impossible” events, yes they can. Are you going to make that happen with no work on yourself, a cup of water, and no other forces/entities in your corner, probably not.

Ancient and medieval mages often relied on supernatural forces in order to help them and it wasn't until around the 1930's, 1934 to be exact upon which psychokinesis began to be hypothesized as an innate ability, whether that be of everybody or only a select few. Seeing as there was a continual trend of relying on these supernatural beings in order to achieve these effects for several centuries, it would hardly be a stretch to say that these supernatural beings are probably a lot better at the magical stuff the mages themselves. It's not as though they aren't capable it, but when historically mages have relied on supernatural entities in order to do magick as opposed to themselves, perhaps that lends itself into being looked further into.

You should be skeptical of your results, while believing in the capability of magic. Belief is a powerful force probably even a requirement if you want to achieve anything substantial.

To this I am not entirely sure that belief is a necessity. There have been a few documented cases of people who we can reasonably infer they did not believe in the phenomeon of magic prior to their spontaneous experience. With that said, other than their initial lack of belief in magic, what was also common among these cases was their lack of control over their anomalous experience, so even if belief is optional in the sense that you don't strictly have to have it in order to start, there does seem to be a bit of a precedence if you want to have any sort of meaningful or reliable form of control over it.

 

[Elementriloquist]

Probability has nothing to do with magic.

Magic/spiritual/mystic/whatever are more of a matter of how much force you can bring to bare to make something happen.

Since it’s impossible to know every factor effecting this equation and therefore impossible to guarantee a substantial desired effect will happen then it’s easier (lazier) to simply say it’s all probability.

This I agree with, I also think magic works this way.

It's not a matter of probability, but a matter of power & ability working against "natural forces", like lifting weights. An individual who has dedicated more time in training their muscles will be able to lift heavier weights and they'll have superior muscle memory and technique with lifting weights.

A weight that seems impossible to lift for Person A, is a doable feat (with significant effort) for Person B.

You should be skeptical of your results, while believing in the capability of magic.

This I also agree with.

I believe that only occultists who simply got lucky will learn how to do magic if they aren't skeptical, but most occultists that aren't skeptics will never learn because they will immediately grab at the low hanging fruit. Instead they will trick themselves into believing they can, and set the bar for magic low so that it corresponds with their delusions, thereby remaining on an endless path of ignorance.

My favorite example of this low hanging fruit is one you will often see posted online in occult/spiritual forums (especially in Law Of Attraction spaces).

I like to call it "job magic" or "wage slave magic" lol.

You will see endless posts by people online claiming that their "feat" of magic that they use as proof is that they used magic to get themselves a 9 to 5 job (that they are actually qualified for). Amazing..... something that literally 99.99% of people on the planet do without attempting magic at all, is their personal proof that they've done magic.

To me, this is the perfect example of not being skeptical of your results. It is more logical to assume that you got hired due to coincidence rather than you magicked your way into employment. There's so many variables that can't be accounted for, maybe your resume finally made it to the HR desk coincidentally when you did your ritual, maybe a friend of yours that has some connections made a call on your behalf and didn't tell you because they think you are prideful, etc. But you can't stroke your ego and feel special if you consider things like that, so most people will ignore that level of skepticism.

The question that always pops into my head is:
"So they can manipulate reality, but they can only do so in a manner that makes them subservient to someone else?"

If that's the case, I'd argue it's the people they are seeking employment from that can actually do magic. Maybe employers are the ones using magic if they have put themselves in a superior position in life to be able to hire employees and profit from their labor.

 

[beardedeldridge]

@dema354
Interesting thought on the control aspect. Also note I added probably and substantial in there. But I have no clue about these cases or what they “made” happen. That being said sometimes people say they believe when they are really in the net doubt category and sometimes someone being neutral/agnostic on it is better than the first example of a “believer” (sometimes they want something to be true but don’t actually believe it). And again no way to know what other forces or entities were effecting the outcome.

But honest/pure belief is an incredible force (or maybe gets entities to move) or maybe a lack of doubt removes some of the realty inertia, or gives other forces permission to act easier. The possibilities are endless really.

Now to the first quote/point you made…another time my phone is at 3%

 

[Vandheer]

I believe that in the case of weather control it is less about "control" and more about "guidance" done in hopes to enhance/attract a specific weather being sought by the one(s) doing the work, but it still has to be in the realm of possibility for it to work(so to say, creating a heavy downpour in an arid zone when there aren't even any clouds around and is very dry would not be viable).

This is how I think it is. Not the weather part maybe, but if something is impossible its impossible, there is no way around it. Magick isn't gonna make that possible, nothing will.

Now if you ask me whats impossible I will have to go to "Harry Potter magic" again. Please, turn into a frog with a snap off your fingers and turn back to a human. Not in astral realm. I want it physically.

That right there is impossible, for me. For me, magick makes improbable, probable. It goes on like that, more probable, more probable. However, there would come a point where people think all of their magick attempts succeed, they can do no wrong, while their life didn't really change at all.

There was a friend of mine who told me once day that, apparently he started making some soundtracks and posted them on telegram, and thats how his fu's (taoist talismans I think) worked on turning him into a dj, after two years. Yeah, sure. Could have just done that two years ago without any fu.

But it would be also naive to think that anything will be possible with magick. EVEN IF IT IS SO, the operator is limited here. Can magick kill a random guy? Sure. Will it (your magick)? If we say it will, that means we can try this experiment 100 times and it will kill him again and again. Now I find that hard to believe.

In short, I think magick has a fine line. It won't make an impossible thing possible. Magick won't have the fatality rate of a point blank headshot. But I don't think you should use it for you know, getting a coffee on Starbucks. How are you gonna know thats magick?

Post automatically merged: Apr 29, 2023

I don't think I have anything else to say on the matter. Fun convo though.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

I wrote a spell to bring out the sun. Does it work infallibly? No. Have others reported success? One did I believe.
Point is I took variables in mind case in point wasn't supposed to be sunny that day. But for five to ten minutes it was.
Personal gnosis. I guess.

Post automatically merged: Apr 29, 2023

The thing is with the spell you are essentially tearing the veil in the sky and involving sacred names of the sun.

 

[Vandheer]

I wrote a spell to bring out the sun. Does it work infallibly? No. Have others reported success? One did I believe.
Point is I took variables in mind case in point wasn't supposed to be sunny that day. But for five to ten minutes it was.
Personal gnosis. I guess.

To be fair I think it would be real weird to call this a success. Maybe if you are doing it on polar night of Antarctica.

It comes back to my point about magick being somewhere between not mundane and impossible.

 

[William66]

What do you think this is, Harry Potter and Secret Chambers of Elementriloquist? You are a sad case.

Haha i get what you are saying here methaphorically, but it isn't impossible to make a curse on them to overdose or crash with a car, in that way it works. I know people who have done this. And that person who did the curse, he's life got attacked(might be karma). Idk...

 

[Vandheer]

Haha i get what you are saying here methaphorically, but it isn't impossible to make a curse on them to overdose or crash with a car, in that way it works. I know people who have done this. And that person who did the curse, he's life got attacked(might be karma). Idk...

Its not. I never said it isn't. If I don't believe magick could kill someone that would signal I never believed in magick.

Killing "all" enemies with magick? Who are you, Frater Terminator? I am not throwing shade at you if it sounds like that btw.

God knows how many hits this maniac ordered on people. Whether he is a charlatan who used his connections to ease up on his punishment or a genuine feat of magick, dunno.

 

[The God-King]

Why didn't he just use his magic to do the hits instead of ordering hitters?

Then he'd have nothing to admit to lol.

All of his enemies should have died in accidents or something.

On another note, his books must not have sold very well if he was still involved in crime.

I'm not of the mind that magic works 100% of the time. We are human and are prone to all the pitfalls of being a human, such as failure. Perhaps he did attempt magic to get rid of his enemies, but then again, why wait for a spell or ritual to manifest when you can send out a quick text to some hitters and have your enemies gone by the end of the day? Magic isn't always the answer.

Also, I don't know any occult authors who got wealthy off book sales. Occult books don't sell anywhere near the amounts of mainstream topics like self help, biographies, documentary type books, novels, etc. Most occult authors still have a full time job or run a business that supplements their book income. The ones who do make a living from books usually have to put out a new book every other year in order to keep paying the bills. No occult author is getting advances that they can live on like a Dan Brown or Jk Rowling or Stephen King. So while he could have certainly chose a legal way to make his money, even if his books sold well he'd probably still have to do something to keep afloat.