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I could be wrong, but pathworking requires visualisation, while its not neccesary for the other two, but could be used. Also one difference in pathworking is you are on a mission most of the time, you have a set goal, while with the other two you are mostly chilling out. Of course nobody is stopping you from doing something there.
Most of the time OBE is synonymus with Astral Projection, as in they refer to the same thing. But technically Etheric or Mental Projections are also OBE, if we think about it.
When I was only able to partially project and fucked up my likely etheric arm because I wasn't able to put it back... Yeah, that shit fucking hurts. The solution was to shove my arm into a bucket of water. Years later I learned that water is very good at dispelling etheric material.
I could be wrong, but pathworking requires visualisation, while its not neccesary for the other two, but could be used. Also one difference in pathworking is you are on a mission most of the time, you have a set goal, while with the other two you are mostly chilling out. Of course nobody is stopping you from doing something there.
Most of the time OBE is synonymus with Astral Projection, as in they refer to the same thing. But technically Etheric or Mental Projections are also OBE, if we think about it.
No, helpful for an OBE however.
Its intuitive. You will see what I mean.
When I was only able to partially project and fucked up my likely etheric arm because I wasn't able to put it back... Yeah, that shit fucking hurts. The solution was to shove my arm into a bucket of water. Years later I learned that water is very good at dispelling etheric material.
Thanks Vandheer, I appreciate the detailed responses that answered the questions.
As far as AA work, it appears the Neophyte is to take control of the Astral Plane. Unless I'm mistaken from what I read. So I'm going to have to change a lot, quickly.
Thanks Vandheer, I appreciate the detailed responses that answered the questions.
As far as AA work, it appears the Neophyte is to take control of the Astral Plane. Unless I'm mistaken from what I read. So I'm going to have to change a lot, quickly.
Listen, you gotta lose the fear. I mean, I don't Astral Project intentionally. Only when God allows it to happen. But, I really think you should lose the fear, because the fear holds you back from exploring the Spiritual world. You should ask God to guide you on that. He does it for me. Eventhough, it's been a long time since I had one.
Out of body experience is the experience of leaving your body and perceiving from a point outside it. It can include feeling the vibrations, floating, or seeing the room you’re in. This is something you’d experience before you get to astral projection. So you can totally skip the whole out of body experience part and go straight to astral projection.
Pathworking is more of a guided journey, often through visualization or meditation where you “travel” through symbolic landscapes like temples, tunnels, etc. It’s more about gaining insight, or doing ritual work. Since it’s guided, somebody helps you to astral project to where you needed to go, even if you can’t astral project by yourself.
Astral projection is the experience when you travel on astral plane. Many people treat astral projection with a specific goal like travel, explore, contact someone, etc. Out of body experience and pathworking are all parts of astral projection. One part is you experiencing separation from your body before you project onto another plane, another part is being guided or helped to get to the place you’re trying to reach. And obviously, once you’re experienced with pathworking, you don’t need help to be guided anymore, but it’s different with astral projection.
Is lucid dreaming a prerequisite? No. It’s an ability you gain through practice after you’re already working with astral projection. Many people mistake a very vivid dream for lucid dreaming, but lucid dreaming is having full control of your body while you know you’re in the dream. Control over your actions and choices, like moving your hands, your legs, walking, deciding what to do, interacting with things, and even exiting the dream on purpose whenever you want it.
This is why when something happens to you in a normal dream, you usually just wake up. No matter how vivid it was, it still wasn’t lucid because you’re not in control. In a lucid dream, the dream doesn’t automatically end just because something happens. You continue to stay in it, respond to what’s happening, and change how the situation plays out. You choose how and when to exit.
The biggest difference between a lucid dream and a normal dream is that you know you are dreaming while in the dream. Whereas in a normal dream, you only realize it was a dream after you wake up. And when something happens in that normal dream, you wake up, you have zero control of your body or any elements in it.
You can use lucid dreaming and AP to reach pathworking goals. Some teaching methods, like those by Ophiel, use pathworking to create specific portals to project through, or peer into.
AP is astral, and should be kept separated from an out of body experience that happens in a real time/real world situations.
Each of us may have our own descriptions, and rules about what is what, but they are all interesting and worth pursuit.
Lucid dream control can come and go during the experience of dreaming, and can lead to AP or OOBE's, while AP and OOBE's can collapse into dreams or lucid dreams as well. I have always floated between them, back and forth, since I can remember. Each one of them uses a specific framework of your altered state ability.
There is one astral place that used to drive me nuts because the environment is like dryer lint or fluff, dust bunnies and only dim lighting. It crunches if you press on it, like snow without the cold or wetness. I used to spend entire nights there, trying to make balls of this stuff, and trying to stack those balls. But in very little time, this substance would simply fall apart and fall back into place, as if I had never touched it. I realized that most of this 'stuff' on the astral plane is flimsy like this, or changing, and comes in layers and layers of different flimsy stuff. Some people claim it is the pre-solid building blocks of the physical plane, others that these are parallel dimensions. I found that place to be pretty useless to me and my goals. In any case, this was astral projection to me personally. Strange places with no life, nobody else in sight, and no sharing, so nothing of value to me.
A lucid dream example, I was dreaming that I was being dragged in front of a theater full of strange creatures, by two other creatures, one holding me up by each arm, I was totally naked, and they were all laughing. I was not in control, so it started as a standard dream. So I 'pulled myself together' and got my legs under control, stood up straight, and then my intent and will kicked in full power. I shook off the two creatures holding me, and went total beserker on all of them, eating them and trashing the entire theater. It felt great. So I went from dreaming, to lucid dreaming. It was the same amount of effort that I use when I wake up still stuck in sleep paralysis mode and have to fight to get control of my body. That isn't always the case. Some days you are just in control without all the effort. Lucid dreams are dreams you control and have full power in, full awareness, full control. They can feel very real, and you can steer what happens. It is the ultimate in cosplay, because you can be whatever you want, and experience whatever you want. Your own chance to be a demi-God. And these can bleed over into other places, real places, or out of body experiences.
In another example, I was reading a book on the couch, and I popped out doing a standard OOBE, landing in the hallway, in real time. I struggled with it for a minute because I couldn't tell if I actually projected here, or if I was actually standing there for real. It can be that real, and the world is as the world actually is. When I snapped back to the book I was reading, I was still reading the same line on the same page, over and over, and not really comprehending it, not until I brought my focus and attention back online in my physical body. That took a few attempts, some head shaking, blinking my eyes, and standing up to stretch.
A standard OOBE, to me, is when I look at a real place, or listen, in real time, and then go there with all my senses intact, and full control of that double. So for me, this can be triggered by visually latching onto another place I know from memory or can see, or by listening intently like I'm trying to hear a noise way off in the distance. It is a form of reaching out farther than your present awareness can go, and then letting yourself go there. Monroe had a system of focusing on a spot above and behind your head, which is also just reaching out in my opinion. There appears to be a part of us that activates a sensory system when things are beyond our sight or reach. It attaches to your known sensory systems, which you can then use to stretch and touch things. It is like explaining how to walk to someone who has never walked, or how to reach out with those butterflies you get in an elevator. You just do it, in the beginning a bit jerky or spastic, but it become more natural with time and practice.
I learned at that point that my projection mind, my lucid dream mind, and my waking mind are not the same thing. We don't drag our waking mind over here or there, it is a completely separate format of altered consciousness or focus to me, and sometimes my waking normal ego mind is trapped in a bubble, forced to simply observe or witness, without any control over anything. This is similar, to me, to remote viewing. It may go somewhere, get data, I can see and hear it, and then come back with accurate data. This was the case with the death of a good friend's mother while I was living thousands of miles away. I woke up knowing that she had just died, at 3 a.m. my time, and immediately picked up the phone and called to verify that this had happened, which it had. Is this AP or OOBE? Likely not without the control, will, or intent behind it. When you are escorted around, shown things, and have no control, but the information is accurate, it should be more in the category of scrying or RV, or something else? But it is all still altered states of consciousness, and visiting places in real time to get accurate and real information.
When I meditate, I'm practicing taking my waking ego mind offline and letting my awareness, the focal point, the observer and actor, float freely so it can switch gears and fuse with one of the other possible altered states we are capable of. Each of those altered states is like a bubble with it's own memories and functions. I do that by stepping away, or letting go, just like we do when we let go to fall asleep. There is a natural fulcrum point there, at 10 to 12Hz frequency, where you can fall asleep, or hover and observe. I am not fighting with my monkey mind, or listening to the inner voice, I am becoming that awareness that knows which one is which, yet is none of the above. When you are hovering or observing, you reach out and go, without thinking about it, just like you don't have to think about how to use your legs to get up or walk.
In another early OOBE experience, this one with purpose and intent, I was sitting on a couch meditating, and tilting my head back to rest on the back of the couch, and launched myself through the ceiling, feeling it pass through me, and then through the roof, and then out into the dark sky full of stars. I began moving so fast out into space that I felt nervous and wanted to end it and go back, which I did very suddenly, like a rubber band snapping back into my body. The impact of that sudden landing launched me and the couch over backwards, with me flying head first into the wall a few feet behind the couch. It made me throw up, the nausea of flying so fast. No major injuries. Couch was intact. The will and intent portion is very sensitive to how you feel in your gut about moving around.
I have projected through portals, symbols that I have given meaning to, like you would with any talisman, and some of those planes can be impressive, but those places are not OOBE Earth projections, and I don't feel like they are Astral places either. In one of them, there were dark clouds spiraling over me, with flashes like lightning, but silent. I didn't venture deeper to see anything because it was oppressive and ominous, and not something that appeals to me. So there are likely also other-dimensional planes, with a different time/space format, that I don't consider 'astral' at all. Some people may disagree, but to me, astral is a description of a subtle, non-material realm or "sphere" located between the physical world and other realms. These places are other realms. If you visit another realm, isn't that OOBE? So it can all seem confusing. Astral is considered a dimension of energy that interpenetrates the physical universe. These places have nothing to do with interpenetration or this physical universe. But since we can go there and experience something, that would then be an OOBE to me.
As you can see, all of this stuff can float between astral, dream, lucid dream, OOBE, RV, and back. Freely floating between nonsense and reality, just like the right side of your brain.
When you pop into someone else's dream and participate, and confirm that with them when they are awake, what dreams are and where they happen can also take on a whole different world of ideas. I do this, so shit happens.
When you dream of something and it happens in real life, and you told people before it happened to confirm you aren't going crazy, dreams start taking on a whole different world of possibilities. I also do this, so more shit happens.
Do these kinds of dreams need a name or category? Are they the same as AP, or OOBE?
Are all of these just variations of altered states of consciousness?
What are human beings when we can achieve these things?
And most importantly, why are we blocked from these things and have to work so hard to achieve them?
Why are there natural locking and blocking mechanisms active in humanity?
